Author Topic: MLV App 1.14 - All in one MLV Video Post Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]  (Read 984647 times)

masc

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So this app looks very promising but I notice it has no inbuilt preset looks? LUTS. What are you guys using to take into resolve and match with other cameras?
You can load any 1D or 3D .cube LUT into MLVApp. You can export as cDNG, or you can export as ProRes with BMDFilm profile.
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DavidP

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You can load any 1D or 3D .cube LUT into MLVApp. You can export as cDNG, or you can export as ProRes with BMDFilm profile.

Thanks for the answer. The thing is though, what LUT will work for this hack we have ourselves here? I'm wanting to match the camera to my Ursa so I'm hoping to transform to a specific look that will be recognized in Resolve and can be transformed to match. If I export with a bmdfilm profile that will then transform magic lantern raw to bmdfilm or its a generic to bmdfilm lut? The fact its not camera-specific seems a bit broad also!

Danne

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Ffmpeg could export a hald clut which could apply all necessary color and white balance and contrast settings coming from Mlv app.. It should be possible to generate a lut from this to work with in resolve for instance. It would requore some work to get it matched but probably worth the effort.

DavidP

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So we can't say automatically save to prores as canon log or slog for example in a way I can then use the Resolve Transform tool to convert that to match my Ursa? I remember this feature used to be on some older software.

ilia3101

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So this app looks very promising but I notice it has no inbuilt preset looks? LUTS. What are you guys using to take into resolve and match with other cameras?

In what way does it not have these inbuilt preset looks:


The fact its not camera-specific seems a bit broad also!

We are not using any generic LUT, we implemented actual transfer functions in the specifications of these formats. MLV App transforms each camera to the same colour space internally, and the rest of the processing follows on from there. Currently the main issue with MLV App is that it uses rec709 primaries for all profiles, the BetterProcessing branch, once merged, will fix this and you will get completely accurate profiles such as BMDFilm, ArriLog, with correct gamut and all.

You can compile BetterProcessing, it should already be correct for the log profiles (though I will check). We could compile it for you as well if you need.

EDIT: BMDFilm is a rather propeitary standard and there is no public info about the colour primaries, so I recommend using Arri Log to match colours, if you can get your blackmagic footage in to that as well.

masc

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Is there anything of interest for reconstructing skipped lines?
Bayer Interpolation with Skip Mode
Are we stretching debayered data in the MLV App for now?
Sounds interesting. But as Ilia said, the skipping is different. For now we stretch the debayered picture in post. The example pictures in this paper look more or less like our bilinear demosaic results... so not sure if it is able to bring better results. But thanks for posting such ideas!
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Danne

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In what way does it not have these inbuilt preset looks:

EDIT: BMDFilm is a rather propeitary standard and there is no public info about the colour primaries, so I recommend using Arri Log to match colours, if you can get your blackmagic footage in to that as well.
I always tend to fall into this thread whenever I try to understand bmd log:
http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?15819-BMD-film-log-specs

From iaremrsir:
"Let me rephrase. There is no gamut encoding to be undone. Some background: white balance is normally achieved by using the color matrices to convert to XYZ then to some defined RGB gamut. This is not the case with BMD Film. It performs white balance in the sensor's space. This is also the reason why BMD Film is so much more desaturated than every other wide gamut besides ACES. Maybe it'd be easier to show you the math of it? If you wanted to convert to CIE XYZ you'd have to use the matrices in the camera's metadata and interpolate a matrix for the specific white balance you wanted.

I do agree that BMD needs to define a gamut to make life easier for VFX folks and for programmers like myself so that programs could more easily support the cameras."

ilia3101

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So BMDFilm is just in the blackmagic camera's native sensor gamut? That means for each camera it is a different colour space  >:( :( ::)

... Actually the same is true for arri alexa log, but at least with alexa cameras they all have the same sensor (or the same sensor stacked 3x), so "alexa widegamut RGB" is always the same thing for all cameras, however with blackmagic all sensors are different so they won't have matching colour ugh

togg

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Thrilled to see a new version :)) I’ll have to see what those matrix/uncolorscience bring.

Small question. i remember a discussion a few months ago about what exactly MLVApp does when selecting each profile, since the results look so different in standard Rec709 inside Resolve. It was something like +1 exposure by default, etc etc etc
I’m talking mainly about the standard “standard” profile. Someone knows exactly what does it do?


Hi guys, Ive been away a long time and have an Ursa Mini Pro as my main cam now but just ordered a trusty old 5d mk iii in the hope it will make a nice B cam! So this app looks very promising but I notice it has no inbuilt preset looks? LUTS. What are you guys using to take into resolve and match with other cameras?

Just bring the dngs to Resolve, use bmd films as an input lut on the raw options panel in the preferences and BMCC v2 rec709 as an output lut on the color preference panel (depending your grading setup). You don't have to do anything more in mlvapp than exporting the dng.

togg

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Ok so I did a fast test. You can find my MLV here if you want to play around: http://www.mediafire.com/file/r2h5j8ml51fed6t/M02-0127.MLV/file



Playing a little bit on Resolve this is what I’m doing to match the standard profile and the uncolourscience fix with some WB adjustment on MLV APP. Still needs highlights to be pushed/lowered to match but whatever.

- bmd film input on raw panel to BMCC v2 rec709 as output lut
- VERY different WB settings.
 +2 exposure on raw panel
 -20 saturation on raw panel   (testing on other images brought this to -10 sat)
 +20 contrast on raw panel


Also I now understand that I'm clueless about the matrix/camera thing. I choosed the fix one but which one does what?


Resolve:

https://i.imgur.com/fQEVMZE.png

MLVApp

https://i.imgur.com/7vrstfe.png

https://i.imgur.com/HzvP6tR.png



DavidP

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Wow thanks guys! Excited to try this when my camera arrives! I look forward to proving the other ursa guys wrong who think this is a bad idea! I'll give it a go compiling myself after some more reading after my work.

ilia3101

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Also I now understand that I'm clueless about the matrix/camera thing. I choosed the fix one but which one does what?

an explanation:

Don't use camera matrix: camera's native RGB channels are interpreted as rec709 primaries, and white balance is done in those colour channels - I do not recommend this mode for accuracy, also different cameras will not match.
Use camera matrix: camera colours are converted to MLV App's processing gamut accurately using camera specific matrix, and white balance is done in LMS colour space (where the R, G and B channels imitate eye colour cells), which should preserve colour constancy better.
Uncolourscience fix: Same as use camera matrix, except the white balance is not done in LMS gamut, instead it is one that @Danne came up with by tweaking matrix values, it helps reduce blue clipping at lower colour temperatures (2000-3000K), but should not be used if there aren't any clipping problems, as it can and will affect colour quality or accuracy. This mode will be removed when BetterProcessing branch is complete (it should fix the clipping issues).

katrikura

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Hello: I congratulate all those who work in an undisturbed way, to offer us this application. I would like to know how I can export a specific amount of frames in mlv.app in windows? I do not want to export the entire video. Thank you.

togg

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an explanation:

Don't use camera matrix: camera's native RGB channels are interpreted as rec709 primaries, and white balance is done in those colour channels - I do not recommend this mode for accuracy, also different cameras will not match.
Use camera matrix: camera colours are converted to MLV App's processing gamut accurately using camera specific matrix, and white balance is done in LMS colour space (where the R, G and B channels imitate eye colour cells), which should preserve colour constancy better.
Uncolourscience fix: Same as use camera matrix, except the white balance is not done in LMS gamut, instead it is one that @Danne came up with by tweaking matrix values, it helps reduce blue clipping at lower colour temperatures (2000-3000K), but should not be used if there aren't any clipping problems, as it can and will affect colour quality or accuracy. This mode will be removed when BetterProcessing branch is complete (it should fix the clipping issues).

Ok got it, pretty complex stuff. Don't use camera matrix sounds really fucked up! Shouldn't it be removed ? Can't wait for the BetterProcessing stuff.

ilia3101

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@katrikura
Yes, there is a way to trim: use CutIn / CutOut (2nd box in edit panel). After doing this, only the trimmed part is exported.

ilia3101

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Ok got it, pretty complex stuff. Don't use camera matrix sounds really fucked up! Shouldn't it be removed ? Can't wait for the BetterProcessing stuff.

It will kind of be removed in BetterProcessing. But using it now may be a decent combination with one of the log curves, as it will preserve the camera's whole gamut and that is good for LOG grading if you know all that stuff. Arri Alexa Log-C colour space also use the Alexa sensor's native gamut, so it is a similar idea, same with BMDFilm from blackmagic.

But if you want to grade in MLV App and export a final result, then better to have camera matrix on, that way you get a similar colour experience to a photography raw converter.

masc

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Nice explanation @Ilia. I added it to the MLVApp Wiki.
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DavidP

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Just playing about exporting as dngs and importing as blackmagic design then using the cinema 2.5k to rec lut as suggested and it indeed looks very similar to the color I expect from my ursa! I look forward to the better processing addon mind for when im camera matching. Is this something planned for the near future? If so I may wait rather than trying to compile myself and breaking something!

DavidP

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Update... correcting WB in MLV app, selecting arri log c and using camera matrix then saving as prores 444 hq seemed to work better! What an awesome piece of software guys, come along way since the years since I last used it! I'll do some comparisons vs the UMP cam in the next couple weeks when I get time.

masc

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...correcting WB in MLV app, selecting arri log c and using camera matrix then saving as prores 444 hq seemed to work better! ...
That's the way to do, if you want to grade as ProRes in another software.
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ilia3101

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Update... correcting WB in MLV app, selecting arri log c and using camera matrix then saving as prores 444 hq seemed to work better! What an awesome piece of software guys, come along way since the years since I last used it! I'll do some comparisons vs the UMP cam in the next couple weeks when I get time.

Glad to hear it is working well.

Is this something planned for the near future? If so I may wait rather than trying to compile myself and breaking something!

I'd say about a month, hopefully less, but if it is working well for you for now, it may not be worth the effort of compiling. Though it won't break anything if you do try :)

DavidP

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Cool! I'm happy to do some controlled lighting tests to see how well it matches with the ursa mini pro and a7sii before and after the update if its helpful.

ricardopt

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Hi everyone.

Any chance of disabling the cmd window "poping up" when it changes from one conversion to another (batch), the conversion im doing at the moment will take about 3 hours, i tought about watching something on netflix etc etc while it converts the videos but the cmd windon keeps popping up.

Thanks

ilia3101

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Could you put MLV App on a different virtual desktop in windows? (https://www.howtogeek.com/197625/how-to-use-virtual-desktops-in-windows-10/)

Ottoga

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@Ilia3101
Quote
Could you put MLV App on a different virtual desktop in windows?

Yes, it works fine.
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