Author Topic: MLV App 1.6 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]  (Read 201373 times)

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2600 on: February 10, 2019, 10:02:33 PM »
This before/after feature was requested already some time ago. You can have it right now (okay, not so simple like in LR) by Ctrl+C; Ctrl+Alt+R and to come back Ctrl+V. Yes I know... a little stupid to do so, but works.

Good to know. Fine for now. Thx!

In the end, implementing the feature would have more or less the same speed (sometimes a little slow, depending on the used parameters). Resetting all parameters might not always be a good idea: debayer, transformation, etc. ... so this would be a reduced parameter set to be reset, I think. Maybe group boxes Processing, Details, HSL, Toning, Lin. Gradient, Filter & LUT.

Group Boxes would be great for that matter.  8)

and even better to have receipt slots!

just had to get that in there  :P

just sayin'  8)

Haha. That's a good one, actually!

Technically this is not too hard to implement. But I still have no good idea how to present this to the user and how to integrate it into the UI. I like to have it:
- easy to use
- best: no preview loading times for the elements
- good integration into GUI
I tried out some solutions, but I did not like it at all, so I deleted all this again. And both, Resolve and LR, are not really good here too. So I don't know where to steal the idea... LOL

LoL... Let's do one step at a time. Less is more. We'll eventually get this one figured out one way or another.  ;)
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70MM13

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2601 on: February 10, 2019, 10:31:15 PM »
Technically this is not too hard to implement. But I still have no good idea how to present this to the user and how to integrate it into the UI. I like to have it:
- easy to use
- best: no preview loading times for the elements
- good integration into GUI
I tried out some solutions, but I did not like it at all, so I deleted all this again. And both, Resolve and LR, are not really good here too. So I don't know where to steal the idea... LOL

whatever you decide on, the user will get used to...

i didn't like the way resolve does it, but soon i developed muscle memory for it and then it was completely natural, and now i wouldn't ask for anything different.  we get used to anything eventually ;)

do what you think is best and we will love it!

darthivm

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2602 on: February 11, 2019, 04:52:54 PM »
Thanks for this great App!

I was wondering if there is any opencl implementation for graphicscards, so the video would be rendered faster.

Thanks for your reply!

masc

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2603 on: February 11, 2019, 05:30:19 PM »
All implementation in MLVApp is CPU based. This is why it runs on a wide range of computers. Until now we have no OpenCL code. If somebody likes to help with that, let us know!
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DeafEyeJedi

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MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2604 on: February 12, 2019, 05:06:58 AM »
Excuse for my ignorance but was this to be expected w 10-bit lossless? I think I read it somewhere someone mentioning this very similar trick.

Fiddling w White Levels (Tonemapped enabled) on these files seems to help w the pink highlights when trying to retain them.

Surprised to see this much details in HL recovery especially from an EOSM. Fun stuff!

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70MM13

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2605 on: February 12, 2019, 05:59:24 AM »
the excellent highlight capabilities of mlvapp are almost always better for me than with resolve.

it really is amazing what this program can do...

IDA_ML

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2606 on: February 12, 2019, 07:04:04 AM »
DeafEyeJedi,

In your video, the highlights (HL) are not blown up.  They still retain full detail and allow you to process them as you like.  Very often though, HL get overexposed and this is inavoidable (e. g. a window in an indoor scene).  Moreover, the overexposed areas are very hard to see on the small screen during filming.  If that happens, there is nothing you can do.  The overexposed HL stay pink, no matter what you do. 

A similar situation occurs when filming at 9 bits lossless, (excellent for longer recording times at higher croped resolutions) and you underexpose the shadows.  Once that happens, the underexposed shadows are red braunish and this really looks ugly.  And, unfortunately, there is no way to fix them - make them look black.

The perfect solution would be, if MLVApp automatically recognizes blown up HL and underexpoeed shadows and turns them into whites and blacks, respectively.  I don't know if that would be possible though.

Danne

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2607 on: February 12, 2019, 07:21:02 AM »
@deafeyejedi
Seems I have to fine tune 10bit white levels on the eosm. The tests procedure from here shouldn´t hurt as well:
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9741.msg211251#msg211251

masc

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2608 on: February 12, 2019, 08:03:20 AM »
Excuse for my ignorance but was this to be expected w 10-bit lossless? I think I read it somewhere someone mentioning this very similar trick.

Fiddling w White Levels (Tonemapped enabled) on these files seems to help w the pink highlights when trying to retain them.

Surprised to see this much details in HL recovery especially from an EOSM. Fun stuff!
Yes, this is expected and the way you should go, if overexposed highlights stay pink by standard.

@IDA_ML: you really still have clips, where no way helps with pink highlights? Could you please upload some frames for me? For me the way DeafEyeJedi shows always works.
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Danne

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2609 on: February 12, 2019, 08:11:15 AM »
I tend to bring back highlight by lowering exposure and applying the Highlight Reconstruction. Then pushing back black and shadows with the curve tool and so on. Nicer edges. And of course correcting white level to around 2900 as pointed out by deafeye...

DeafEyeJedi

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MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2610 on: February 12, 2019, 08:12:44 AM »
In your video, the highlights (HL) are not blown up.  They still retain full detail and allow you to process them as you like.  Very often though, HL get overexposed and this is inavoidable (e. g. a window in an indoor scene).  Moreover, the overexposed areas are very hard to see on the small screen during filming.  If that happens, there is nothing you can do.  The overexposed HL stay pink, no matter what you do.

That's true and I'm well aware. Just didn't know that it was due to the White Level issues because I could swear to myself that I tend to use ETTR respectfully without going too extreme. Or at least I try to stay within the boundaries.

A similar situation occurs when filming at 9 bits lossless, (excellent for longer recording times at higher croped resolutions) and you underexpose the shadows.  Once that happens, the underexposed shadows are red braunish and this really looks ugly.  And, unfortunately, there is no way to fix them - make them look black.

Tried 9-bit once and never went back. Sorry. Ha.  :P

The perfect solution would be, if MLVApp automatically recognizes blown up HL and underexpoeed shadows and turns them into whites and blacks, respectively.  I don't know if that would be possible though.

Well if that's the protocol then we could eventually figure a way out. But if it's better to drive a stick shift than an automatic vehicle then so be it.

It was just nice to be able to play with Black/White Levels with ease. More or less like a user preference, perhaps? 8)

@deafeyejedi
Seems I have to fine tune 10bit white levels on the eosm. The tests procedure from here shouldn´t hurt as well:
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9741.msg211251#msg211251

If that's the case then I guess that's where I'll have to take a deep dive some time this week if not this weekend. Just took a peak and seems like there's another link within a link to go through in order to complete the test properly.

Should be doable though. Thanks fo the tips, @Danne!  :)

Yes, this is expected and the way you should go, if overexposed highlights stay pink by standard.

Thanks for confirming @masc and now I feel better.

Here's another great example of HL fix even after shooting in ETTR and pull down 2 stops in MLV App (-2.00 exposure) along w few grades there and there.


For those who are curious here's a sample file -- https://bitbucket.org/DeafEyeJedi/magic-lantern/downloads/EOSM-4.5K-10-bit-Lossless-ETTR-Sample.MLV
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masc

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2611 on: February 12, 2019, 08:52:49 AM »
I tend to bring back highlight by lowering exposure and applying the Highlight Reconstruction. Then pushing back black and shadows with the curve tool and so on. Nicer edges. And of course correcting white level to around 2900 as pointed out by deafeye...
Yapp. Exposure=-2 and Lighten=50 is a better starting point than Exposure=0 and Highlights=-50, because edges will look way better. Or use curve tool. White level for 10bit EOS-M footage is somewhere 2600 and 2900, different in many clips - whyever.
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Danne

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2612 on: February 12, 2019, 09:28:07 AM »
Could be iso correlations. Solving this by adding correct white level already in cam would be nice. An evening in front of a light bulb and working those tests pointed to from a1ex with raw_diag should do the trick.

IDA_ML

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2613 on: February 12, 2019, 09:54:45 AM »
@IDA_ML: you really still have clips, where no way helps with pink highlights? Could you please upload some frames for me? For me the way DeafEyeJedi shows always works.

I am at work now and don't have my 100D with me.  I will take a few shots tomorrow and will upload them for you.

Danne

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2614 on: February 12, 2019, 10:55:40 AM »
White level fix for eosm:
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9741.msg211913#msg211913
Thanks @deafeyejedi and @masc @a1ex

IDA_ML

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2615 on: February 12, 2019, 04:44:50 PM »
Masc,
     I went through some of my earlier 100D files and, as you requested, here is one of them that is quite hard to fix:

https://we.tl/t-jN6cR1CUjb

Yes, I agree, in this file there is a quite severe overexposure of the highlights.  Following your instructions and setting White level to 2600, I was indeed able to remove the pink cast from the blown up areas but got other ugly artifacts in those areas - see for example the green leaves of the rose where the pink cast becomes yellowish.  And yes, I agree that there is always a price to pay for blown up highlights but I love the way version 1.5 handles them.  Do you think, something similar could be done to the underexposed shadows in files shot at 9 bits lossless?

masc

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2616 on: February 12, 2019, 07:00:31 PM »
Thanks IDA_ML. Hmm... our algorithm works best for colorless tones, or if green channel should be in between blue and red with a similar curve. Reconstructing a "real green" if it is not there and if it is also not partially in the other two channels leads to problems. Maybe there are more intelligent algorithms out there... no idea. I have a similar problem with orange tones which get yellow/grey.

The upper right half of the image was pink. But the original color is like the lower left half.
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Ilia3101

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2617 on: February 12, 2019, 07:51:11 PM »
Could anyone with the latest version camera raw compare MLV App's AMaZE debayering to this new Adobe thing? https://petapixel.com/2019/02/12/adobe-enhance-details-increases-raw-photo-resolution-by-up-to-30/

See which one's more detailed...
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IDA_ML

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2618 on: February 12, 2019, 08:28:12 PM »
Thanks, Masc, for this clarification.  After struggling a lot with blown up highlights, I came to the conclusion that one should do their best to avoid them. ETTR is a great tool for that but it does not help much with camera movement where very bright objects may enter the scene and ruin it.  To compensate for situations like this, I usually apply ETTR to the scene that I plan to shoot and then dial back the exposure by 0,5 to 1,0 stops.  If nothing else helps then exposing for the highlights and then using Dual ISO is the last resort.  Most of the time, this works best, especially in the high-resolution croped modes.  And I am really very happy that MLVApp handles Dual ISO files so well.  Simply fantastic!

Ilia3101

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2619 on: February 12, 2019, 08:30:15 PM »
Very often though, HL get overexposed and this is inavoidable (e. g. a window in an indoor scene).  Moreover, the overexposed areas are very hard to see on the small screen during filming.  If that happens, there is nothing you can do.  The overexposed HL stay pink, no matter what you do. 

Try lowering white level. For the kind of highlights you describe that does remove pink colour,  but of course does not bring back detail in the blown out window.

In your video, the highlights (HL) are not blown up.  They still retain full detail and allow you to process them as you like.

Depends what you consider blown up. They certainly don't retain full detail, the green channel was fully destroyed in that case, but red and blue were preserved.
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Danne

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2620 on: February 12, 2019, 10:25:41 PM »
There has been a discussion in the background which regards color and how it´s affected when using the camera matrix setting(default). Mostly it works wonders but when mixing kelvin temps warm/cold there´s sometimes issues. I came up with a temporary fix by altering the xyz_rgb matrix. It´s totally unscientific but for now it will be sufficient at least for me. Masc already put it in as an option in Mlv App so compile and just run it if footage comes out similar to this:

The option is here:


Original import


Use Camera Matrix + processing(blueish highlights)


UncolorscienceFix + processing


The fix:
Code: [Select]
/* Danne temp fix version */
static const double xyz_to_rgb_danne[] = {
     3.2404542, -1.5371385, -0.4985314,
    -0.9692660,  1.8760108,  0.0415560,
     0.0030,  -0.0536,  0.9834
};

/* Danne temp fix XYZ to Cone space (LMS) */
static const double ciecam02_danne[] = {
    3.2404542, -1.5371385, -0.4985314,
   -0.7036,  1.8760108,  0.0415560,
    0.0030,  0.0536,  0.9834
};

IDA_ML

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2621 on: February 12, 2019, 11:36:23 PM »
Good work, Danne!  Looks like another significant improvement of MLVApp.

The truth is born in discussions ...

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2622 on: February 13, 2019, 08:14:32 AM »
Good work, Danne!  Looks like another significant improvement of MLVApp.

Agreed. This is just fantastic to see!

The truth is born in discussions ...

Amen!
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timbytheriver

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2623 on: February 14, 2019, 09:56:37 AM »
https://vimeo.com/317080446

I shot a straightforward over/under exposure test using MLV App 1.5 to make basic corrections to visually 'return' to N (Normal) exposure. Shot on 5D MkII (10 bit).

I used two methods to compare which suppressed [shadow] noise more effectively:
Method 1) Using the Exposure slider to compensate +/-
Method 2) Using the Exposure slider to adjust down, then compensating using the Lighten slider to push back up.

You decide…  :P

Hope this is useful for someone!

#5D MkII #MLV App 1.5 #Over/Under Exposure

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Ilia3101

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Re: MLV App 1.5 - All in one MLV Video Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #2624 on: February 14, 2019, 06:27:25 PM »
@masc Finally tried the HSL adjustments: they're amazing!!! There is the ability to fine tune it, unlike rawtherapee's HSL adjustments where moving the mouse one pixel changes the hue by 180 degrees already. What we have in MLV App is a usable interface with controls that are not horrible, very rare in open source image editing. Thanks for all the great features you have added recently.

@timbytheriver
Exposure slider is linear and simulates more intense light. The lightness slider is more of a curve and brings dark tones up more than light ones. Use them however you think gives a nicer looking result... and never underexpose :D
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