Author Topic: MLV App 1.11 - All in one MLV Video Post Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]  (Read 413950 times)

nicolaselhani

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1050 on: March 29, 2018, 03:58:21 PM »
Hello,

New to ML in general, and just jumped ship from MLRawViewer thread, where unfortunately exporting in ProRes is not compatible with High Sierra. I was recommended to try MLV App, and so far it is great. I did go through a lot of the threads on this forum and some of the posts on this thread.

I have a couple of issues if anyone could of any help. I'm sorry in advance if the questions have been previously answered as I did keyword searches and didn't find much.

1. For white balance, I know there's a bump on including a picker for the future. But for the 'Temperature' it seems that the cooler I move the slider towards 2000K, the image does respond and get properly cool/blue. But as I move the slider towards the warm end of the spectrum there seems to be very little if any change to the image, is this a know issue?

2. During Playback of the MLV in the preview window, I usually get 17-20 fps on a 24 fps file. Is this normal? I tried changing the Debayer for Preview Setting from Bilinear to Amaze to Amaze Cached. The Amaze and Amaze Cached both played back files at half the Bilinear (10-12 fps), even when I left the Amaze Cache, cache the video it made no difference.

3. For exporting, what is the most used/popular setting for ffmpeg and Debayer?

I shoot on a 5DM2 1856*1044 @ 23.976 fps 14-bit uncompressed. Running MLV app on a 2013 MBPr.

Thanks for all your help,

Nicolas

masc

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1051 on: March 29, 2018, 04:21:48 PM »
1. For white balance, I know there's a bump on including a picker for the future. But for the 'Temperature' it seems that the cooler I move the slider towards 2000K, the image does respond and get properly cool/blue. But as I move the slider towards the warm end of the spectrum there seems to be very little if any change to the image, is this a know issue?
A picker is planned and realized in GUI already (but is hidden until low level functionality is implemented). That will come in the future when Ilia finds time to realize it. The issue with cold=blue vs. warm I don't understand. Maybe you must try to explain more what your issue is.

2. During Playback of the MLV in the preview window, I usually get 17-20 fps on a 24 fps file. Is this normal? I tried changing the Debayer for Preview Setting from Bilinear to Amaze to Amaze Cached. The Amaze and Amaze Cached both played back files at half the Bilinear (10-12 fps), even when I left the Amaze Cache, cache the video it made no difference.
17-20 fps on a MBP 2013 is really superb! I get 8 fps on my MBP 2013! MLVApp shows as many frames your CPU is capable to render in time. AMaZE is slower but better than Bilinear. With AMaZE cache: activate it and wait until status bar tells "idle" again - then start playback. Caching needs some time. It should be way faster then AMaZE without caching (when clip is in cache).
But even if MLVApp shows 10 fps - in "dropmode" each shown frame is synced to realtime and audio - so it doesn't matter what your "real" fps is.

3. For exporting, what is the most used/popular setting for ffmpeg and Debayer?

I shoot on a 5DM2 1856*1044 @ 23.976 fps 14-bit uncompressed. Running MLV app on a 2013 MBPr.
For exporting it is a question of your workflow, so I can't answer the question. I cut mostly on FCPX and use ProRes4444 with AMaZE, but this is my workflow - yours may be different.
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nicolaselhani

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1052 on: March 29, 2018, 06:18:42 PM »
masc thanks so much for your quick reply.

that's good to know that fps is outputting better than expected, because i came from a trial with MLRawViewer, where it played back every frame in real time without using much cpu, maybe it was using some form of low res cached proxy? but it's good to know it's normal behavior on MLV App.

for the exporting, I cut mostly on FCPX as well, you picked AMaZE because it renders closer to the original RAW video than Bilinear?
I just exported the same video using ffmpeg Kostya and Apple AVFoundation, but cannot seem to tell the difference. Do you use the standard ffmpeg Kostya?

For the white balance temperature example, here are a couple of screenshots showing cool (2000K) neutral (5500K) and warm (10000K) as you can see the difference between neutral and warm is negligible, but when I modify white balance in for example MLRawViewer there is a pronounced difference between neutral and warm.

Thanks again for your help,

Nick








IDA_ML

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1053 on: March 29, 2018, 06:25:28 PM »
Masc,

Based on your own experience, is there much difference in the quality of the MLVApp-adjusted and exported file between the ProRes4444 and ProRes422_HQ formats?  My impression is that the quality difference between the two export formats is visually very subtle to nonexistent even when pixel peeping files with quite extreme MLVApp adjustments, filters, etc..  However the  ProRes422_HQ format provides a substantial file size reduction (2,5 to 3x) compared to ProRes4444.  Could you please let us know in what practical cases, again in your opinion, ProRes4444 will provide a substantial advantage, compared to ProRes422_HQ?  And in what cases you are not satisfied with ProRes422_HQ?

Thanks.

masc

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1054 on: March 29, 2018, 06:59:29 PM »
that's good to know that fps is outputting better than expected, because i came from a trial with MLRawViewer, where it played back every frame in real time without using much cpu, maybe it was using some form of low res cached proxy? but it's good to know it's normal behavior on MLV App.
MlRawViewer uses GPU, that is why it is so fast if you have a GPU - but it is also why it does not run at all if you don't have a GPU (my problem for years and the main reason why I help developing MLVApp).

for the exporting, I cut mostly on FCPX as well, you picked AMaZE because it renders closer to the original RAW video than Bilinear?
I just exported the same video using ffmpeg Kostya and Apple AVFoundation, but cannot seem to tell the difference. Do you use the standard ffmpeg Kostya?
AMaZE and Bilinear are debayering algorithms. You can zoom to 100% and change between them - mostly you'll see the difference!

AVFoundation is better regarding colors, but we don't support audio here atm (is also in work if there is time or someone else can help us with that). I mostly use ffmpeg, because I need sound.

For the white balance temperature example, here are a couple of screenshots showing cool (2000K) neutral (5500K) and warm (10000K) as you can see the difference between neutral and warm is negligible, but when I modify white balance in for example MLRawViewer there is a pronounced difference between neutral and warm.
Ah okay. I see. Hmmm... I think that depends on the image you have and the light in it... I have other example pictures which are really orange and never get blue :)
Since some weeks Ilia is working an a completely new white balance algorithm which shall fit better with all cameras and not only 5D2. We'll see what this changes...

@IDA_ML: indeed at least for clips from my camera I see a difference in quality between prores422hq and prores4444. Especially when I used my EF16-35mm 2.8 II, where I can have much details in trees or houses, the very fine detail got here and there lost when using 422HQ. I had no such problem with prores4444 - that is why I use it. And I've seen it already at 1:1 on a HD screen - without pixelpeeping. If you don't see a difference in your clips - go with 422HQ - as you wrote - it is way smaller on your HDD what is also nice!
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nicolaselhani

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1055 on: March 29, 2018, 07:38:56 PM »
masc, thanks again for your in-depth answers and explanations, really helps a lot.

Since I don't use audio at all on MLV files, I think I'll just Apple's AVFoundation, thanks for the precision.

Looking forward to the new white balance algorithm we've been hearing so much about.

In the meantime I'll enjoy this amazing application.

Thanks for all your good work.

Nick

IDA_ML

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1056 on: March 29, 2018, 09:08:33 PM »
A big THANKS from me too, Masc.  Keep up the excellent work!

OlegK

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1057 on: March 29, 2018, 11:23:54 PM »
? ? ?
Chose a filter and enable it.


Custom filter/

masc

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1058 on: March 29, 2018, 11:59:29 PM »
Custom filter/
Can be added in C code. You'll have to train the neuronal network and add the result to the app.
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OlegK

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1059 on: March 30, 2018, 12:07:55 AM »
Can be added in C code. You'll have to train the neuronal network and add the result to the app.

don't know nothing about it, but tanks! :)

bouncyball

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1060 on: April 01, 2018, 09:11:24 AM »
MLV App 0.15alpha released. Downloads.

sveinpetter

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1061 on: April 01, 2018, 01:14:18 PM »
Hhmm, I get an error when I try to unzipp win 64
-News....
Tried many times, always error , also with 7zip.
Then I tried 7-zip, open, opens ok. In that view of 7-zip, MLVApp.exe don't show compressed size.

From that view, its ok with unzip.

masc

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1062 on: April 01, 2018, 03:03:58 PM »
MLV App 0.15alpha released. Downloads.
New in this version is:
- Shadows & Highlights sliders and processing (finally! yeah! But: still slows down playback and export when used!)
- Colored whitebalance sliders
- Added upside down mode
- Added colorspace correction on all ffmpeg exports
- Added export codecs: DNxHD, DNxHR
- better sync between video & audio
- Bugfix: more stability on old Windows computers on startup
- Bugfix: app was crashing when changing clips and preparing export
- Bugfix: single frame PNG export failed if aspect ratio was not set to 1.0
- Further minor bugfixes and enhancements



Minimum OS:
- OSX 10.8.5 Mountain Lion
- Windows 7

Known issues:
- still no caching for Win32
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dariSSight

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1063 on: April 01, 2018, 04:20:16 PM »
Thanks for MLV app, I will shoot a wide range of video clips this week to test the range quality of my Canon 5D Mark II (Dynamic Range, Sharpness, Color Vivid, Natural Mosiac/Aliasing Preventions and Clean Upconversion Range). I have decided to divert from my normal post process (MLV 2.0 Files to MLVFS to Adobe AfterEffect to Adobe Camera RAW to ProRes4444XQ to Final Cut Pro X or Premiere Pro CC 2018), instead use your MLV app. Any tips or steps that would give me the cleanest Video Clips to import into Final Cut Pro X or Premiere Pro, What is your most stable firmware release that you’re  testing your app with, and are you using a Canon 5D Mark II? Also are you guys think about input a upscaling algorithm system that would be accurate to adding pixel that would be true to image processing, something like what Sharp did on their Quattron Plus models (example Sharp AQUOS Quattron +). Finally did you guys make a tutorial, I’ll look but I thought I ask. I know it’s a lot but your answer to these questions should help most novice Magic Lantern user get closer to a stable workflow. Thanks again
Canon 5D Mark II

masc

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1064 on: April 01, 2018, 06:44:48 PM »
Any tips or steps that would give me the cleanest Video Clips to import into Final Cut Pro X or Premiere Pro,
Just set all up as you like, export using AMaZE and chose the codec you like the most.
What is your most stable firmware release that you’re  testing your app with, and are you using a Canon 5D Mark II?
Ilia and me, we both own a 5D2. I use the nightly build from 2017Mar30 without problems. Maybe I could update - but I don't miss anything and for me it is very stable. When testing we have a big set of files from users of all cameras and versions... when something does not work - upload the file for us and we will search!
Also are you guys think about input a upscaling algorithm system that would be accurate to adding pixel that would be true to image processing, something like what Sharp did on their Quattron Plus models (example Sharp AQUOS Quattron +).
Not yet. For now we use the ffmpeg scaling filter for resizing. If you have algorithms or source code for that, it might be easier to add it to the app.
Finally did you guys make a tutorial, I’ll look but I thought I ask.
No, we did not make a tutorial for using it - @escho made a tutorial for building it on Linux. We think the app is very easy to use - if you know Lightroom, you won't have big problems to use it. (I think - again: let us know if you have problems!)
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masc

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1065 on: April 02, 2018, 09:58:47 AM »
Hhmm, I get an error when I try to unzipp win 64
Thanks for the information! @bouncyball: I also don't get it unzipped. Is there something wrong or can someone unpack it? The zip file is around 5MB too small... :(
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IDA_ML

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1066 on: April 02, 2018, 10:40:11 AM »
I was able to unzip it using 7-zip.  It's working fine despite the reduced file size.  Good work, developers!

Masc,

I have a question.  In what cases would you use DNxHD or DNxHR and what is the difference in video quality compared to ProRes422?  I love the reduced file size of these two added codecs.

masc

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1067 on: April 02, 2018, 11:21:07 AM »
I was able to unzip it using 7-zip.  It's working fine despite the reduced file size.  Good work, developers!

Masc,

I have a question.  In what cases would you use DNxHD or DNxHR and what is the difference in video quality compared to ProRes422?  I love the reduced file size of these two added codecs.
For you it works?! Okay, cool. What do you mean with reduced file size?

Hehe, I would not use DNxHD or DNxHR at all, because it does not fit in my workflow and the resolution is very limited. But there was a user asking for it, so I added the codec. I am sure there are reasons for chosing these codecs... ;)
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IDA_ML

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1068 on: April 02, 2018, 11:32:17 AM »
What do you mean with reduced file size?

The zipped file of v.015 is 20,6 MB vs. 26,5 MB of the previous version I used.  Probably it was compressed with 7-zip or some other compressor that provides higher compression ratio.

As far as DNxHD and DNxHR codecs are concerned, clips exported with them are 40-50% smaler in size compared to ProRes422 exports.

ilia3101

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1069 on: April 02, 2018, 05:47:42 PM »
@dariSSight masc's advice is good I agree with all of it. However I always use a 10/12 bit build for the 5D2, it's surprisingly stable, the reduced bits saves space when recording in crop mode(however it corrupts normal shots because it's not fully working yet). mlv_lite also gives a bit more horizontal resolution: 1880x1056 vs 1856x1044, but I don't use it.

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1070 on: April 03, 2018, 05:36:53 AM »
I can't wait to try the newest build! I love this!

andy kh

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1071 on: April 03, 2018, 06:08:32 AM »
MLV App v0.15 is superb. i love it
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Petter Sand

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1072 on: April 03, 2018, 01:28:03 PM »
Hi! Thanks for developing this App. Here is some feedback.
I noticed some vertical lines in the blue in this picture:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7sl296msl7vdoli/windmill.jpg?dl=0

I had enabled RAW correction and vertical stripes (normal)
I have the MLV App v0.14 alpha. Use it with this build: Latest Build (2018-02-04 01:12)    5DMK3 FW. 1.2.3
Any suggestions on how to proceed to get rid of the lines? Thankful for help.
Best regards Petter


Danne

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1073 on: April 03, 2018, 01:58:33 PM »
@Petter Sand
Upload the MLV file.

masc

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Re: Making a New MLV Processing App! [Windows, Mac and Linux]
« Reply #1074 on: April 03, 2018, 03:54:38 PM »
@Petter Sand: please upload the MLV or at least some frames of the MLV (you can export as MLV and set cutIn&cutOut before). We will analyse what is going on there...
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