Author Topic: 7D raw quality for color grading and investments on this camera  (Read 7163 times)

Brawl

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7D raw quality for color grading and investments on this camera
« on: November 01, 2016, 12:49:36 AM »
I bought a vaf filter for canon 7D to fix aliasing probelms on this camera for raw shooting, and now I'm waiting mosaic will ship it to me. the problem is that now I'm full of fear that I did a wrong buy because I did some tests with canon 7D raw and it seems that if start to do color correction there is a lot of noise rising up the blacks and exposure.
basically my fear is that dooing color correction and changing values as blacks, gamma, exposure, will be useless. so I wish to understand considering my camera seems to suffer a lot of noise if shooting in raw will anyway be a good idea.
being honest my economic problems are so huge that I could never watch to better dslr or black magic. so I bought a used 7D and now after a lot of time I added the vaf filter. I had a fast 128gb compact flash for my birthday and after some day I bought the anti aliasing filter. before my birthday I only had one 16gb compact flash I say this only to explain that I basically invested all I had in this project.
I wish to study raw video because I hope one day I will be able to work doing this. My fear is that I did it all wrong.
I hope you can reassure a little bit please.

PaulHarwood856

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Re: 7D raw quality for color grading and investments on this camera
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2016, 03:20:26 AM »
Hey Brawl,

     Coming from a T3i, I chose to add a 7D in July of 2015. Why? Because of raw video continuous recording 1728x972 16:9 23.976 fps. But I found out there are so many other features available via Magic Lantern.

     I also purchased a VAF-7D filter soon after. This filter is amazing, and provides the ability to sharpen H.264 footage without adding artifacts. I absolutely love the 7D. It shoots raw photos of 5K resolution, shoots H.264 video, and shoots Raw Video.

     I'm looking into Dual Iso, DotTune, and more time-lapse features provided by Magic Lantern as well.

     The onboard mic thanks to Magic Lantern is great for scratch audio, with the removal of AGC and analog gain capabilities.

    With the VAF-7D, I have been able to shoot video free of Aliasing and Moire, without losing sharpness.

    You will need to make sure shots are in focus because of the filter changing the focusing distance. So you cannot rely on the focus measurements on lenses. You won't be able to zoom and keep focus on parfocal lenses.

     But so what? This camera feels flawless with this filter, and sometimes I don't use the filter when also shooting photography. And the quality of raw video still looks amazing!

     And you can even take pictures with the filter on, if need be in a pinch, through Liveview. That is so cool!

     I definitely would recommend not shooting 3x crop mode however with the filter because of some image degradation. But the 1728 x 736 (2:35:1 aspect ratio) scales great to 1920 x 817, and upscaling to 4096 x 1743 via Adobe Media Encoder 4K for Youtube and Vimeo it looks fantastic.

   There is also a bug in the 7D where you can shoot 48 fps Raw for about 15 seconds no sound, and 13 seconds with sound. That's right 48 fps override with correct sound, and you don't have to unsqueeze the footage in post production. I love this ability, and there is currently no other Canon DSLR with Magic Lantern that has this capability (that I know of).

    You can calibrate your lenses for photography using Dot Tune (I have to look more into this), or a Spyder Calibration Target.

     You can use a shutter release with cable and trigger the 7D (and other Canon DSLRs with Magic Lantern) to record, both H.264 and Raw, when enabling record with pressing the half shutter button. And you don't need batteries to just trigger the shutter! This is especially useful for using a shoulder rig.

     You can use an audio recorder like a Zoom H6, with a 3.5mm male to 3.5mm male and record audio straight from the H6 to the 7D. Although wav files are better, if you don't have time, you can always use the audio recording in the h.264 file. This records wav into the H6 and the audio into the MOV file at the same time!

     You will have no overheating issues if you use a battery grip or a Lanparte E6 dummy battery and battery attachment. This lasts the amount of 4 LPE6 batteries! I haven't noticed overheating when just shooting with one battery, but I've seen it happen once on a shoot.

     Dual Iso retains up to 14 stops of the Sensor, great for Real Estate Videos.

     The 7D is close to the equivalent of a Super 35mm camera, which is industry standard.

     I could go on and on on how I love the Canon 7D. It is a fantastic camera, and if you plan on doing as work I think you've made an excellent choice. The ability to color grade 14 bit color raw footage for $600 or under is amazing. I'm so thankful.

     If you are looking for 128 GB 1066x Lexar CF cards, try Lens Authority. They have cosmetically damaged cards that function flawlessly, which is all I care about. I recently purchased 2 cards for $128. That's almost the price of 1 new card! Definitely use 1066x, the Sandisk 85 mb/sec cards can give a dropped frame or two after a while of shooting. No slow motion capabilities either.
     
  There are a few softwares I recommend...

1. Cinelog-C (although I used to use Visionlog, I highly recommend not using it now) Visiontech is amazing for H.264 video though. I love this picture style.
2. FilmConvert. Not only a film grain emulator, this serves well for color grading
3. Neat Video along with downloading 7D Noise Profiles from Neat Video's website (I do not recommend Red Giant Denoiser - way too slow and CPU/GPU intensive and disappointing results). I like to remove any digital noise and add grain from Filmconvert.
4. 5D to RGB Batch for transcoding H.264 clips. This helps with color grading and preserves the image when grading.

     If you have any questions please let me know. I don't want you to be bummed about such an awesome camera!

- Paul Harwood


PaulHarwood856

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Re: 7D raw quality for color grading and investments on this camera
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2016, 04:12:38 AM »
Hey Brawl,

     Sorry to double post, but I meant to give a few examples of Raw Video on the 7D:

Kyle Takes A Walk In Atlantic City, NJ (2016)

https://vimeo.com/189411025

1728 x 736 Raw Video / 23.976 fps / Canon 50mm f1.8 II / Cinelog-C transcoded ProRes 4444 XQ in After Effects with 32 bit float Comp Setting / with Smart Import 2 / Lumetri Color / Film Convert / Came-TV 200 Stabilizer / Warp Stabilizer added / method changed to Position - super helpful / 5% and 5% and Enhanced Reduction


A Night In Ocean City, NJ (2015)

https://vimeo.com/188935596

1728 x 972 Raw Video / 23.976 fps / and 1920 x 1080 with 2 fps override I believe / Tamron 17-50 f2.8 VC / Cinelog-C transcoded ProRes 4444 XQ in After Effects with 32 bit float / with Smart Import 2 / Lumetri Color / Film Convert / Neat Video / Unsharp Mask / Optical Flow for Time-lapse / Handheld / Tripod for Time-lapse


Joe Plays A Few Instruments At The Guitar Center (2016)

https://vimeo.com/188393942

1728 x 736 Raw Video / 23.976 fps / all audio on camera no external mic / Canon 50mm f1.8 II / Cinelog-C transcoded ProRes 4444 XQ in After Effects with 32 bit float / with Smart Import 2 / Lumetri Color / Film Convert / All Handheld / Added Warp Stabilizer with method changed to Position - super helpful / 5% and 5% and Enhanced Reduction / 50mm follow focus adapter - really handy


Wenonah’s ONSD 2016 - “The Takedown”

https://vimeo.com/188079806

H.264 / ISO 1600 (I recommend not going higher)  / Canon 50mm f1.8 II T3i  / Canon 100mm f2.8 USM 7D / Lumetri Color / Film Convert / Neat Video / Unsharp Mask / 5D to RGB to ProRes 422 (HQ) / Tripods / Battery Grips / One Must HD Monitor / 15mm rig for 7D / Genustech Matte Box Lite / Added Side Flags / 77mm - 58mm Cordvision CineRing to attach to Canon 100mm f2.8 USM and Matte Box


A Plane Flies Across The Moon At Night (October 2016)

https://vimeo.com/187776185

 2.5K Raw Video / 12 fps override I believe / Tripod / Genustech Matte Box Lite / Added Side Flags / Tripod Collar $10 but legit / Cordvision 77mm-58mm CineRing to attach to Matte Box and Canon 100mm f2.8 USM / Clamp On / Lumetri Color / Film Convert / Neat Video / Unsharp Mask / Optical Flow / Cinelog-C transcoded ProRes 4444 XQ in After Effects with 32 bit float / with Smart Import 2


Chase Ruhl’s 6th Birthday (2016)

https://vimeo.com/187124432

Almost the entire video is shot with 48 fps bug / 1728 x 692 / Aspect Ratio 3:2 / Set Fps Override to 48 and exact / Will say 48.033 fps / Set Timer A to 422 (-76), use in 1280 x 720 60 fps mode / other clips at end shot in 1728 x 736 / 23.976 fps / Tamron 17-50 f2.8 VC / one zoom is key framed / Lumetri Color / Film Convert / Neat Video / Unsharp Mask / Optical Flow with 48.033 fps / Cinelog - C transcoded ProRes 4444 XQ in After Effects with 32 bit float / with Smart Import 2 / Monopod with Flat Head on top and feet adapter on bottom / single battery / no battery grip or Lanparte E6


Samantha Ruhl’s 3rd Birthday (2016)

https://vimeo.com/186290518

The second half is shot with 48 fps bug / 1728 x 692 / 48.033 fps / first half is shot with 1728 x 736 / 23.976 fps / Tamron 17-50 f2.8 VC / Hoya 0.9 77mm ND filter / Handheld / single battery / no battery grip or Lanparte E6 / Lumetri Color / Film Convert / Neat Video / Unsharp Mask / Optical Flow with 48.033 fps / Cinelog - C transcoded ProRes 4444 XQ in After Effects with 32 bit float / with Smart Import 2


Joe Takes a Walk in Ocean City (2016)

https://vimeo.com/184883510

Shot with Tokina 11-16 f2.8 DX II / 48 fps override / not the 48.033 fps bug / note the aliasing (which can be improved in MLVFS, but I didn't realize at the time) / Lumetri Color / Film Convert / Neat Video / Unsharp Mask / Distortion Removal in Adobe Camera Raw is super handy for this lens / Optical Flow for extra frames for slow motion / Came-TV 200 Stabilizer


     I figured I would add as much description for these videos as I could to give you some ideas and reassurance. The equipment isn't really important, I just wanted to tell you to give you information on how the shots were done. I definitely recommend primes for raw video and h.264 if you can. Zooms come in handy for freelance work / one man band / run and gun. But primes are sharp. Also have better minimum focusing distances.

     There are more videos I've shot in raw on the 7D:

Tornado Strikes Wenonah (2015)

Fireworks in Vineland, NJ (July 2016) - Timelapse - Photos

Sunrise in Ocean City, NJ (July 2016) - Time-lapse - Photos

Star Timelapse (June 2016) - Photos

A Ride With Anthony (2016) - Make sure you avoid using a Variable-ND Filter - Brown Colors - Optimize for 50mm lenses and up with Polarizer trick

Ocean Sunrise in Avalon, NJ (2015)

Fortune Teller (2016) Along with the Tamron lens, the close ups were shot with a Canon 28-135mm f3.5 - 5.6 IS

Ocean City, NJ Bay Sunset (2015)

Those Who Dig (2016)

A Knight Roams Through Wenonah on Halloween (2015)

Joe Berg Plays Some Covers on New Year's Eve (2015) - under good lighting the Tamron is sharper

Waxing Gibbous (2015)

Star Lapse (2015)

Wenonah’s ONSD 2015 - “My Sharona”

Wenonah’s ONSD 2015 - “You Will Leave a Mark”

Lightning (2015)

2U Performs Live at The RiverWinds Community Center (2015) (first two songs are raw video)

Joe in OC (2015) Canon 24mm f2.8 STM Pancake lens - I sold this, although it wasn't bad

Clips 2015 - T3i raw video

Rain Lapse - T3i raw video

     
     I hope this helps! Please let me know if you have any questions.

- Paul Harwood

Brawl

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Re: 7D raw quality for color grading and investments on this camera
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2016, 08:12:34 PM »
thx Paul! today I did a test, trying to recover some shadows in color correction, I used neat video to fight the noise it worked damn well (add just 30% of noise reduction)! so much thanks I'm really gratefull for your advices! I feel so much better now! :)

PaulHarwood856

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Re: 7D raw quality for color grading and investments on this camera
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2016, 01:03:01 AM »
Hey Brawl,

     You're welcome! I'm so glad you feel better now, I was hoping so  :)

     Oh, and I found out Dual Iso Video isn't yet available for the 7D. I thought it was, but it could be available some day.

     But, you can create noise profiles in Neat Video with different ISOs. You can use their target sheets to print out, or film for a few seconds on white poster board while slightly out of focus. Make sure to take pictures of all your settings. Then you can apply these noise profiles and you won't have any issues creating profiles for each clip! Pretty cool, huh?

- Paul Harwood

extremelypoorfilmaker

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Re: 7D raw quality for color grading and investments on this camera
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2016, 01:10:50 AM »
Good rule of thumbs when shooting raw is to overexpose. mlv files are recorded in a way that more information is stored in the highlights, therefore easily retrievable in post instead of video, where once you blow your highlights well.. you are pretty much done for.

How much overexpose? Well, there is not a set rule. Use raw zebras to give you a hint. Do some tests and find out. :)

Oh, one last thing, don't be so afraid of the Noise, embrace the grain! In my honest opinion, you can get away with iso 3200 and have nice clean results if you know how to expose properly :)

also because, added bonus of overexposing, is that once you lower the exposure level in post you will automatically lower the noise level in your footage, because you know, noise likes to hide in the shadows! :)

PaulHarwood856

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Re: 7D raw quality for color grading and investments on this camera
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2016, 09:05:53 AM »
Hey extremelypoorfilmaker,

     This is really helpful, thank you so much! Great advice!

- Paul Harwood

DeafEyeJedi

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7D raw quality for color grading and investments on this camera
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2016, 10:12:56 AM »
So glad there are still some action going on with the good old 7D and this is all great details from each & every one of you guys (Thanks for sharing) as I would like to also point out that it is also useful to use DarkFraming Average processing when using higher ISO's such as 3200 with the 7D (you will be surprised at how much it helps w color noise) in conjunction with ETTR, obviously.

There are reasons why I decided to scoop up another decent used 7D after selling my original first body in 2009 before jumping onto the 5D2 ship. I then sold the 5D2 in 2012 (in which I still regret to this day) before sailing away for good on the 5D3. However, I love the Audio controls that ML provides on this 7D that most of the other current DSLR's running ML don't have.

Thanks @PaulHarwood856 for your in depth explanations re: VAF-7D as I am rather intrigued by this in despite of the infamous 48fps bug (quite frankly I absolute LOVE this bug) which had propelled me with the thoughts of that I "didn't need it" and seems you have proven me wrong?  ;)
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

PaulHarwood856

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Re: 7D raw quality for color grading and investments on this camera
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2016, 07:28:11 PM »
Hey DeafEyeJedi,

     So glad you like the 7D as well! I've tried to read on the forum about dark framing. Could you elaborate more? I know it involves filming with the lens cap on, but then requires more work that I didn't understand when reading. Does this only work for raw video? I'm seriously thinking about creating noise profiles for the 7D and T3i for Neat Video. It would make a massive difference, but would take some time. I've read not to go above ISO 1600 on the forum, and even when I do go above the two DSLRs have a orange highlight to the ISO setting, like Magic Lantern is telling me this is dangerous haha. I definitely could use ISO 3200 in a pinch though so that's good. I love this bug too! It's fascinating, and you can use it with sound as well! The VAF filter is great. It's great to know the aliasing and moire will not be a problem. I was confused with ETTR because of exposing to right blowing out highlights, but extremelypoorfilmaker pointed out overexposing is good because you can recover highlights. I'll have to try this out.

- Paul Harwood

domo94

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Re: 7D raw quality for color grading and investments on this camera
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2017, 09:03:28 AM »

     If you have any questions please let me know. I don't want you to be bummed about such an awesome camera!

- Paul Harwood


Hey Paul, just doing some browsing on this camera. I've changed my build multiple times and haven't been satisfied since my first original build, but I can't remember which it is, though.

What settings do you use now, if you still use this camera, and what build?

I love the 2016 work you have of you on the beach and such, you made this camera look extra fantastic. It gives me more inspiration and reason to keep using this camera, as opposed to just trying to buy the latest and greatest.
I just got Neat Video and the VAF filter with some other gear, can't wait to get back in the field and record again.

PaulHarwood856

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Re: 7D raw quality for color grading and investments on this camera
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2017, 07:21:32 PM »
Hello domo94,

    Thanks so much for your kind words! I appreciate it. I usually try to use the latest nightly build. There are so many improvements being made, and they can be read in the changelog  under the build. I still love this camera, and the VAF filter really does help. Would you like me to post the settings I use? Would that be helpful? I

     One other note: I use Cinelog-C for Adobe Camera Raw in After Effects and the Smart Import 2 Script. You have the same flexibility as raw as transcoding to ProRes 4444 XQ.

     I haven't gotten into dark frame subtraction yet, but want to soon as that will be very beneficial for low light shooting. Neat Video does a great job though, especially with the Mix with original percentage option. Magic Lantern raw video has a filmic grain to it, so this option is awesome.

    I'm willing to post some settings just let me know.

- Paul