Author Topic: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams  (Read 460193 times)

Igor_Braun

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #850 on: June 28, 2019, 10:30:16 PM »
@Reddeercity, also would like to ask you. I just came from shooting event (was a college party). And got a bunch of videos with vertical lines like this:

To solve the problem i needed to press rec and stop several times.
Is there any way to avoid this problem?
 

Danne

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #851 on: June 28, 2019, 10:39:43 PM »
Power timing regs. Hand me the code, I take a look.

Igor_Braun

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #852 on: June 29, 2019, 12:33:10 AM »
@Danne, Hope it's the problem, that you mentioned. But which code should I hand you and where is it located? It's regular h264, not MLV.

reddeercity

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #853 on: June 29, 2019, 06:11:15 AM »
No you didn't refresh Liveview , I mentioned this many times before
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=19336.msg217882#msg217882
turn off raw video "tab" exit to liveview , pan the cam around or just move it then let sit for a few seconds (10 or so)
re-enable raw video "tab" exit to Liveview all should be good now .

OlRivrRat

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #854 on: June 29, 2019, 05:07:47 PM »
           @Igor_Braun

Best Way to Avoid Might Be to Not Use Experimental ML when shooting an Event ~ {:~))
ORR~DeanB  ~~  80D-ML  &  SL1+ML  &  5D2+ML  &  5DC+ML  &  70D+ML(AliveAgain)

Galterius

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #855 on: June 29, 2019, 07:35:06 PM »
I don't know why but I get some heavy aliasing when shooting 4064x590...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xzii_J8viXX3q8RF9deiEayK97lrQY05/view?usp=sharing

2blackbar

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #856 on: June 29, 2019, 09:05:00 PM »
Its normal because 590 is not much when width is 4064, so upscaling will get a lot of aliasing, if 590 is skipping its more aliasing, if binning, there still gonna be some but less.
Read this about 1x3 and 3x1  https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16516.25
Also the file is about 400MB, i dont think many guys have time to download this and check, its better to post the frame.

Igor_Braun

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #857 on: June 29, 2019, 10:35:44 PM »
@Reddeercity
@OlRivrRat

The thing is i don't use experimental build when shooting events... And don't turn on raw modules. It started to appear from the moment i installed an experimental build the first time (including when don't use ML or when i use stable version). Also with it, i have strange problems with turn on lifeview

Galterius

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #858 on: June 29, 2019, 10:52:50 PM »
Its normal because 590 is not much when width is 4064, so upscaling will get a lot of aliasing, if 590 is skipping its more aliasing, if binning, there still gonna be some but less.
Read this about 1x3 and 3x1  https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16516.25
Also the file is about 400MB, i dont think many guys have time to download this and check, its better to post the frame.

sorry I will post the frame, and I will read what you sent me !
But its weird because I did not have these problems before

reddeercity

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #859 on: June 29, 2019, 10:56:08 PM »
I don't know why but I get some heavy aliasing when shooting 4064x590...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xzii_J8viXX3q8RF9deiEayK97lrQY05/view?usp=sharing
I don't see the problem , quick export to h264 M27-1836.mov
Yes there will be some aliasing (Very little) , but not nearly as bad as 3x3 (FHD) and in some cases you will see no issue at all .
It comes down to how to you process (color grade) you file .

Just a FYI; I don't mind downloading a test .mlv file up to 1GB ( I'm on a commercial connection 300 download 15 up)
But you can shorten them in MLV App by selecting the number of frames and save as a .mlv .

reddeercity

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #860 on: June 29, 2019, 11:12:57 PM »
@ Igor_Braun , don't think it's a ML issue , so you are saying even on the nightly builds or 5D2_10-12bit stable build you have that problems  ?
Do you have any customs or use any customs setting (e.g. C1 ,C2, etc. ...) other then Manual mode on the setting dial on the left hand side top of camera .
If problem persist maybe reset all camera setting  .
I don't have any of those issue , so I hard to figure where you problem is .
 

Galterius

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #861 on: June 29, 2019, 11:29:29 PM »
I don't see the problem , quick export to h264 M27-1836.mov
Yes there will be some aliasing (Very little) , but not nearly as bad as 3x3 (FHD) and in some cases you will see no issue at all .
It comes down to how to you process (color grade) you file .

Just a FYI; I don't mind downloading a test .mlv file up to 1GB ( I'm on a commercial connection 300 download 15 up)
But you can shorten them in MLV App by selecting the number of frames and save as a .mlv .

Maybe the mlv app didn't launch correctly, I will try again.

Igor_Braun

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #862 on: June 30, 2019, 08:24:08 AM »
@reddeercity i use only manual mode and yes, only safe stable night build for 5d2 when shooting events. I also think, that it's because of the camera, not ML. Today was keeping testing ml and bricked my lexar 1066... Just turned off and on again the camera, and "card not formatted"   text appeared. Cant open and format it on camera and PC, i'm totally unlucky... But will keeping testing every new stuff anyway

Galterius

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #863 on: June 30, 2019, 05:05:24 PM »
Here are some screenshots of 2 clips exported to ProRes 422HQ, I Don't know why I get this issue.. Its not really aliasing






masc

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #864 on: June 30, 2019, 05:17:53 PM »
Here are some screenshots of 2 clips exported to ProRes 422HQ, I Don't know why I get this issue.. Its not really aliasing
Sure, this is 3x1 aliasing. Somewhere there is a thread in the forum, where some guys compared 3x1 with 1x3, where 1x3 is way better. In this thread there was also the explanation why. From my own tests I can tell you, 3x1 always produces the artifacts you show here - also on other cameras like the EOSM. That's why I don't use it. ;)

Edit: just found this, but there was a more academic explanation and research post somewhere:
Lines x Columns

1x1 Sampling is read every line (vertical pixels) and every column (horizontal pixels) without any skipping or binning, no aliasing and moire and you will see more noise in this mode , also Movie Crop Mode and x5 Mode are using 1x1 Sampling.

3x3 Read one line skip two every 3 lines/Bin every 3 columns. And skipping lines causes aliasing and moire.

1x3 Read all lines/Bin every 3 columns. No skipping at all only Binning pixels in columns, no aliasing/no moire and better details than 3x3.

3x1 Read one line skip two every 3 lines/Read all columns. Better details than 3x3 but with same alisaing and moire since we are skipping lines in this mode.
5D3.113 | EOSM.202

Galterius

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #865 on: June 30, 2019, 06:59:46 PM »
Sure, this is 3x1 aliasing. Somewhere there is a thread in the forum, where some guys compared 3x1 with 1x3, where 1x3 is way better. In this thread there was also the explanation why. From my own tests I can tell you, 3x1 always produces the artifacts you show here - also on other cameras like the EOSM. That's why I don't use it. ;)

Edit: just fount this, but there was a more academic explanation and research post somewhere:

But on other clips I did not get these problems and now its on all clips...

masc

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #866 on: June 30, 2019, 07:07:58 PM »
Moiree depends also on the lens used, the aperture used,... I also get 3x3 clips without moiree, and others with a lot.
5D3.113 | EOSM.202

Galterius

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #867 on: June 30, 2019, 07:42:37 PM »
Moiree depends also on the lens used, the aperture used,... I also get 3x3 clips without moiree, and others with a lot.

Yea but are you sure this is moire ?? With so big green and pink pixels ?

masc

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #868 on: June 30, 2019, 08:13:37 PM »
Exactly these colors is moiree, yes. They are produced at contrast edges in all line skipping modes. With some luck, you can exchange them in MLVApp against a little noise, choosing IGV debayer (sometimes it gets a little better this way).

Edit: another comparison of the modes: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16516.msg210023#msg210023
5D3.113 | EOSM.202

Igor_Braun

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #869 on: June 30, 2019, 09:06:38 PM »
Got those vertical lines in 4k, but did everything that @Reddeercity said for eliminate it before shooting. I think it's my camera issue.

Galterius

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #870 on: June 30, 2019, 09:19:07 PM »
Got those vertical lines in 4k, but did everything that @Reddeercity said for eliminate it before shooting. I think it's my camera issue.

I had those lines too, but I found out that turning off then back on raw video recording (after 4k crop rec is on)
2 times is not enough, I have to do it 3/4 times until its ok, and Don't forget te refresh liveview before you turn raw recording back on.

Galterius

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #871 on: June 30, 2019, 09:40:36 PM »
The aliasing is sooo heavy… and I had no problem before with the same build… and its completely unsharp




Here is another clip after I reinstalled ML (June 20th build) : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NWaXzlWmFDpgGzRqZnWe3Xr5sYC4ilQm/view?usp=sharing

reddeercity

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #872 on: July 01, 2019, 04:50:36 AM »
Will , I see no aliasing in the clip I downloaded but it is at least 2-3 stops underexposed (try to use ETTR technique)
I always use Adobe After Effects CS6 to process my MLV files , so I hardly ever come across aliasing issues .
What I find that help with aliasing is to use "Edge Defringe" in A.E.
 



here is the XMP file from adobe after effects to adjust the dng's M30-2057_000000.xmp
and here's the exported h264 mp4 file 4096x1784_h264-A.E._M30-2057.mp4
Not sure why you are using 12bit , 10bit should be enough
FYI: I use Technicolor's CineStyle Profile for my Liveview  to judge my exposure with & I always get very clean shadows .
It's never fail me yet !

masc

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #873 on: July 01, 2019, 08:34:19 AM »
Hm... this reduces the colors, but all the moiree stairs are still there.
5D3.113 | EOSM.202

reddeercity

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Re: 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams
« Reply #874 on: July 01, 2019, 08:41:24 AM »
No I don't see it