Author Topic: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView  (Read 421537 times)

squig

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #550 on: April 27, 2017, 03:53:49 AM »
Can someone write tutorial about how to rec on these modes?

You're reading it; page 23.

goldenchild9to5

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #551 on: April 27, 2017, 07:56:48 AM »
WOW........ @a1ex you did it.  I just tried the new build, it recorded @ 3.5K 12bit Lossless 2.35:1 continuously.. Zero Hick-ups so far.  Converted the images with no problem they came out beautiful  :D

a1ex

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #552 on: April 27, 2017, 08:00:40 AM »
Have you actually read the change log? There were *no* changes on the camera side since latest build; only mlv_dump was updated.

goldenchild9to5

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #553 on: April 27, 2017, 09:10:01 AM »
Not really was too excited to try it out  :D

jimiz

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #554 on: April 27, 2017, 07:13:20 PM »
What brand CF cards are you using @jimiz? Are they formatted into exFAT at the very least?

Also were you using '3.5k 1:1 center x5' within crop_rec.mo from ML menu and more importantly did you enabled FPS override to 23.976 while in x5 zoom?

Here's a screenshot from MLVFS webGUI to show that I was able to achieve continuous w 12-bit lossless in both 3072x1308 & 3072x1320 in 24p @ ISO 3200 until pressed stop.



This was used w KomputerBay 128GB 1066x and it was formatted to exFAT via Disk Utility on OS X prior to recording (256GB cards can be formatted in cam while keeping the exFAT).

Settings used under Movie mode within ML:




Thanls for your really important info about! 
Cf is a  CB 128 GB x1066 tested ,formated exFAT, and seem to work very well  with normal raw 14 bit 1920 25p + audio , no stops.
In the setting you talk I become automatic stops , sometime with few beeps and error....BUT I think is some problem her of many another people....
also if you read  the setting you do, work on continued recording.... iso and  LIGHT of sky example...give a big input data that overwriting buffer and STOP the recording.
With 1920x960 50 P  14, 12 LOSS bit....begine well and suddenly break the recoding, why ? I just do few test before....if I begin recordin in the dark area/room ALL ok....when I turn to the windows light....BREAK recording, so  also if was around 60/70 Mb...the light jump over 100....  this do in all the LOSS bit.

i think this is the bottleneck which does not hold recording on some resolution, though not exaggerated and low frames.  or not?
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vstrglv

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #555 on: April 27, 2017, 08:53:06 PM »
Not after seeing samples like these, but feel free to prove me wrong.

The automatic choice is on the gradient 3-bit tonality border (any lower bit depth would result in obvious posterization).
Yes, I understand. But this build is experimental one. A person who is going to use it must understand or try to understand what's going on. But it's not easy to set a proper  exposure and sometimes the exposure is set with some shift intentionally. In these cases  the relation between ISO and bit depth is not strictly defined. So manual bit depth option will be usefull.
BTW, is there a probability to get 12-8bit lossless for other modes, espesially 45/50/60fps?
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a1ex

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #556 on: April 27, 2017, 10:04:39 PM »
Quote
In these cases  the relation between ISO and bit depth is not strictly defined. So manual bit depth option will be usefull.

Please show me one (1) non-trivial example where reducing the bit depth below the recommended value is useful.

Quote
BTW, is there a probability to get 12-8bit lossless for other modes, espesially 45/50/60fps?

Probability to get lower bit depths in other modes is zero with current method (I'm not aware of any situation when it could work by chance, no matter how many times you would try).

If you ask about future possibilities, I'm unable to answer (because it's something that, at the moment of writing, is beyond my understanding). Whether I'll be able to figure it out tomorrow, or next month, or within the next 10 years, I have absolutely no idea. Same for real-time previews with 4K or other similar questions.

If you ask whether the hardware can do this, I'm pretty sure it can. What I don't know is how to program it to do so. You can help with that.

vstrglv

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #557 on: April 27, 2017, 10:25:41 PM »
Please show me one (1) non-trivial example where reducing the bit depth below the recommended value is useful.
Only for reducing data rate a little. But what is the problem with manual bit rate?

If you ask whether the hardware can do this, I'm pretty sure it can. What I don't know is how to program it to do so. You can help with that.
Unfortunately I can not help, not enough knowledge...
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a1ex

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #558 on: April 27, 2017, 10:30:12 PM »
But what is the problem with manual bit rate?

Asked and answered. Have you actually clicked on my links?

vstrglv

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #559 on: April 27, 2017, 10:44:52 PM »
Yes.
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g3gg0

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #560 on: April 27, 2017, 10:51:39 PM »
@vstrglv:
please find the requested download here:  [this feature is only available for members having a gold subscription]
if that doesn't work, and the arguments of the developers isn't reason enough: feel free to implement it
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goldenchild9to5

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #561 on: April 27, 2017, 10:52:34 PM »
So @a1ex April 27th Build has no new changes from the April 26th version.. Like before just mlv_dump changed. 

erikbaldwinson

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #562 on: April 27, 2017, 11:25:46 PM »
Hey, installed latest build on 5D3 today as I was really hoping to record 24fps 1080p 14bit lossless on the CF and proxy files on the SD.

Unfortunately, the proxy files will only record for about 6 seconds or so before live-view locks and the battery needs to be pulled. Recording both the 14bitlossless and proxy on the CF card results in the same/similar result.

With the latest crop mode build recording 10bit 1080p on CF and proxy on SD works great!

Anychance I'm missing something or there is a quick fix for this? Cheers

a1ex

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #563 on: April 27, 2017, 11:44:01 PM »
Right, I had two commits in the raw-h264-branch that I thought were included, but looks like they were not (I've never actually tried this feature on this branch). One is a workaround to prevent hard lock-ups when the H.264 stream stops, and the other attempts to sync the file names.

Last time I've checked (a long time ago), I had good results with H.264 IPB on SD, but recording stopped very quickly with both on CF (don't remember much about ALL-I).

Build updated.

erikbaldwinson

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #564 on: April 27, 2017, 11:53:13 PM »
Thank you Alex!

Quick question, are there any real strong incentives to record 10bit raw instead of 14bit lossless besides possibly better stability with crop mode build?

a1ex

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #565 on: April 27, 2017, 11:58:52 PM »
Currently, the only reason I could think of would be in-camera playback.

I'd actually recommend lossless compression with 12-bit (high quality, as the last 2 bits are mostly noise) or less (to be tested). Keep in mind I'm not an active video user, so the recommendation is based on theory, not on practice.

erikbaldwinson

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #566 on: April 28, 2017, 12:30:27 AM »
Thank you for the recommendation and explanation why!

In theory and as you understand it, is there a possibility that the last 2 bits provide some type of head-room for difficult shots? Or would you say 99% not likely..

a1ex

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Janosch

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #568 on: April 28, 2017, 01:43:12 AM »
At the very first: ML is very great stuff and is a great ingenious work! Its an overwhelming thing, can't say thanks much enough! It makes a lot of fun playing and working with it!

Right now I'm playing with ML on the high res end.

I confirm that 3.5K works continously at 2.67:1; 12bit lossless

WOW........ @a1ex you did it.  I just tried the new build, it recorded @ 3.5K 12bit Lossless 2.35:1 continuously.. Zero Hick-ups so far.  Converted the images with no problem they came out beautiful  :D

@goldenchild: are you sure that you managed real 2.35:1 with 3.5K?
3.5K @ 2.35:1 (3520x1498) only 14bit lossless is supported with this vertical resolution and here you end up at >105MB/s at 50% compression --> not continuous
Also 1320pixel is max vertical resolution for the 5x crop mode (3.5K 1:1 centered x5 as well as 5x live view crop) and this is currently the max. vert res for 12bit lossless and lower

By the way I tested 3.5K 2.39:1 at UHD crop mode to get a vert res >1320 but at 14bitlossless. Depending on the brightness of the image I manged to get 120 to nearly 200 frames in this resolution.
Here is a quick test:

https://1drv.ms/i/s!ArsIFng0eZ9dgYhqj9iycEK3sGsFSQ

3520x1472; 14bitlossless; 23.976; UHD crop mode --> ~105-110MB/s

ISO 400 --> 120 frames
ISO 320 --> 150 frames
ISO 200 --> 186 frames

as mentioned above 3520x1320 works continuous due to 12bit lossless capability, but is 2.67:1...

By the way there is a small bug:
when accidentally entering the UHD crop mode from 3.5K (where 5x lv zoom + fps override to 23.976 needs to be enabled) at a resolution of 3520+ the FPS override changes to an odd 33.. fps speed. When turning fpsoverride off it changes to 19.. fps. While turning off, the Picture Style window from Canon menu flashes up once.
To eliminate this you need to turn off crop mode und raw video, close ml menu and turn everything on again (without x5 live view zoom + fps or!)... Nothing substantial but a bit confusing.
Can anyone confirm this?


erikbaldwinson

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #569 on: April 28, 2017, 03:27:11 AM »
Right, I had two commits in the raw-h264-branch that I thought were included, but looks like they were not (I've never actually tried this feature on this branch). One is a workaround to prevent hard lock-ups when the H.264 stream stops, and the other attempts to sync the file names.

Last time I've checked (a long time ago), I had good results with H.264 IPB on SD, but recording stopped very quickly with both on CF (don't remember much about ALL-I).

Build updated.

Hey Alex, unfortunately those changes you made to the latest build (2017-04-27 21:51) didn't do it. It still only records 6 seconds ALL-I or IPB before I get an "emergency stop" notification on the live view. Tried 12bit lossless, 12bit raw, and 10bit raw, makes no difference. I made sure to set record to card 2 (SD) in the canon menu each time.

goldenchild9to5

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #570 on: April 28, 2017, 02:34:00 PM »
@Janosch Yep got 3.5K 12bit Lossless 2.35:1 to work continuously.  Doing more testing but so far it's been stable and continuous.   

hyalinejim

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #571 on: April 28, 2017, 03:57:18 PM »
How are you getting higher than 1320 vertical resolution to get 2.35 aspect ratio at 3.5k?

jankrueck

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #572 on: April 28, 2017, 05:02:17 PM »
Quote
By the way there is a small bug:
when accidentally entering the UHD crop mode from 3.5K (where 5x lv zoom + fps override to 23.976 needs to be enabled) at a resolution of 3520+ the FPS override changes to an odd 33.. fps speed. When turning fpsoverride off it changes to 19.. fps. While turning off, the Picture Style window from Canon menu flashes up once.
To eliminate this you need to turn off crop mode und raw video, close ml menu and turn everything on again (without x5 live view zoom + fps or!)... Nothing substantial but a bit confusing.
Can anyone confirm this?

can confirm!

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #573 on: April 28, 2017, 05:18:38 PM »
By the way there is a small bug:
when accidentally entering the UHD crop mode from 3.5K (where 5x lv zoom + fps override to 23.976 needs to be enabled) at a resolution of 3520+ the FPS override changes to an odd 33.. fps speed. When turning fpsoverride off it changes to 19.. fps. While turning off, the Picture Style window from Canon menu flashes up once.
To eliminate this you need to turn off crop mode und raw video, close ml menu and turn everything on again (without x5 live view zoom + fps or!)... Nothing substantial but a bit confusing.
Can anyone confirm this?

Trying to reproduce this on my end to no avail. Was this done on 113 or 123?

can confirm!

Really? ...How?

How are you getting higher than 1320 vertical resolution to get 2.35 aspect ratio at 3.5k?

Hmmm care to explain this @goldenchild9to5 or maybe you assumed incorrectly? Either way would you mind to elaborate a bit more or better yet share some samples?

Because atm it just stays within 2.65:1 even if you selected '2.35:1' from the ML menu:



and yet it isn't continuous even if w FPS override enabled down to 20p.
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vstrglv

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Re: crop_rec on steroids: 3K, 4K, 1080p48, full-resolution LiveView
« Reply #574 on: April 28, 2017, 06:40:46 PM »
But how did you get 3504x1320? I can get only:
3072x1320 (~2,33:1)
3520X1320 (~2,67:1)
3584X1320 (~2,72:1)
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