Development Thread: Footage for Mac (New Mac app for MLV)

[martinhering]

@dia3olik

Is it possible to implement a way to copy and paste developing settings from one file to another of the list?

It would help with multiple takes or clips taken in the same lighting conditions...

That should already work.

[timbytheriver]

@martinhering

New build for El Capitan is freezing up my entire screen when selecting white picker tool. Won't respond to 'Force Quit'. Mac then requires hard restart. Also, files are showing pink tint all over.

Great looking interface though!

OSX 10.11.6

[Fer5275]

Thanks a LOTTTTT martinhering, I want this app since I Buy my Canon 5Dmk3.

Downloading and testing.

[DeafEyeJedi]

Here's my first test run through with Version (Alpha 1) 0.1.1 (78) on OS X 10.12.3:

https://vimeo.com/207214936

•COLOR SPACE:
Nice set of enlisted options although I'm not a fan with any of the S-log's (maybe because I don't know how to use them properly) as I've gotten used to using Cinelog DCP over the years. C-log is acceptable but there's something about the algorithm (Apple's CIRawFilter) that's being used in this app which makes it look a bit more pixelated than it should look. Even at ProRes4444. Although Rec.709 looks legit to me and I notice it crushes the blacks (which is to be expected) but seems doable when the footage is at least up to ETTR otherwise. Would be nice to have an option to include our own Log's, DCP, etc.

•TONE:
Exposure settings seems to work OK although it seems limited to only -/+ 3 stops one way or another. Highlight settings doesn't seem to do much (although much better than previous version with the magenta cast) so I am not sure if it's practical to have it only go down to .5 from 1.0 which is like halfway down. It seems to create a massive 'Halo' effect when pushing to its limit (as to be expected) but since you are using your own algorithm so not sure why it seems extremely sensitive. Shadows settings seem to work nicely without creating too much additional noise. I find that to have this setting at .4, .5 or less which looks clean. Blacks settings doesn't seem right to me. It works if I keep it no more than 5.0 or so otherwise it'll just complete crushes the blacks to the point where it's useless. Just like photoshop we need to approach this app like it's a photography application (although its made for videos) but it is definitely good practice to keep this in mind.

•WHITE BALANCE:
Temperature settings seems to work as expected. I also noticed a bug with the White Balance picker which doesn't respond if I were to use a Thunderbolt display connected to MacBook Pro. Without Thunderbolt display it works like normal. Also it may be more ideal to have the White Balance Picker to stay on after each time we click on a white subject just so that way we wouldn't have go back and forth to enable it on if that makes sense. Tint settings seems a little harsh to me. I wish there was a way for us to dial in the numbers as sometimes the sliders can be troublesome when making small adjustments. For instance like in ACR we can use the arrows (up and down) to gradually change the effect in more precisely increments.

•NOISE REDUCTION:
Luma settings doesn't seem to do much (it seems I need to zoom into the footage in order to see the changing effects but currently the app doesn't let me) otherwise I'm not sure if it's due to an user error on my part. I even left this on 1.0 and compared to with it off. No different on final output. Chroma although I'm not sure if this is the same as Chroma Smoothing 2x2, 3x3, etc but I usually leave this at 1.0 just because I don't know what It's doing. If it's there for a reason(s) then so be it. It just seems different results than normal cs2x2, cs3x3, etc. Sharpen seems to work best with noise reduction when set at 1.0 (play with this back and forth and you will se what I mean) which can be useful for certain situations. Contrast seems to have this weird 'Halo' effect similar to what happens when you push the Highlights down too much. Not sure if this is normal or a bug?

•PRESENCE:
Boost settings really surprises me the most out of all the available tools online. Maybe not but still it seemed cool. I like to push this up to 0.2 or so. Gives a good overall boost without creating color noise. Really useful. Boost shadows seems to be another useful tool although I slide this one up to 1.0 which is maxed out and can barely seen the difference but still noticeable. Vibrance settings although I don't use this in ACR much as it is more of a photographic approach but I can get away with this nicely if I push this up to 0.3 or so. Saturation settings seems like a very sensitive area to play with. Only very little room to push without creating the ugly orange look on skin tones. Still overall a very cool and useful tool. Sharpness settings under this category seems not as effective as the one from Noise reduction. I like to push this one up to 0.3 to 0.4 or so to keep it not too obviousThought they both play different roles respectfully. It's all like a puzzle and gotta spend more time on it to piece them all together nicely without overdoing any of these features. Again like I previously mentioned that all of this tends to have this photographic approach in mind when it comes to grading on this application.

•RECOVERY:
This discolored highlights settings seemed to have helped with that magenta cast in the highlights from the previous version (0.0.1) so that's a positive sign but again like I mentioned earlier that after playing with this one throughly from 0.0 to 100.0 which doesn't seem to do anything. Maybe I don't have a the right footage with overblown highlights or any of that matter to see if this feature actually does anything. This one definitely needs some more investigation.

•PERSONAL REQUEST OR SUGGESTIONS:
-Dual-ISO support would be really nice actually.
-Possible to highlight all files together for batch export or even to copy/paste them all at once rather than one by one re: settings.
-More logs, DCP, LUT support.
-Pause playback using SPACE key or play/pause icon.
-Toggle fullscreen and windowed mode using TAB key or fullscreen icon
-Jump to next/previous RAW or MLV files in same directory as current file using K/J keys.
-Step forward and backward through frames by one second (LEFT/RIGHT cursor keys) or one frame (,/. keys) while playing or paused.
-Brightness control while playing using UP/DOWN cursor keys. Or click/drag in brightness box.
-Fast GPU Bilinear demosaicing for playback
-High-quality (but slow) CPU demosaicing (AMaZE) when paused or enabled (can be a Q key) <-- This is important for when you plan on enabling the playback function.
-White Balance adjustments. Keys: 1=WhiteFluoro,2=Daylight,3=Cloudy, 4/7=Red down/up, 5/8=Green down/up, 6/9=Blue down/up. Or click/drag in Red/Blue box.
-RGB Histogram option.
-Drop-frame+audio and non-drop-frame modes. Toggle with "F" key
-Slide audio sync -0.5,-0.05,+0.05,+0.5 seconds with V/B/N/M keys.
-Mark IN/OUT, Jump to PREV/NEXT mark with I/O and U/P keys.
-Loop or one play mode with I key or loop icon.
-Exit viewer with ESC key.
-Last but not least to possible have a way of exporting ProRes4444XQ. Especially for logs.

•POSSIBLE FULL LIST KEY CONTROLS?:
-SPACE - Pause/Unpause playback
-TAB - Toggle between initial windowed mode and fullscreen
-LEFT/RIGHT CURSOR - Jump back/forward 1 second
-COMMA(,)/PERIOD(.) - Nudge back/forward by 1 frame (works best when paused)
-UP/DOWN CURSOR - Increase/decrease brightness
-1, 2, 3 - Change White Balance preset or click the dropper icon and then anywhere to choose a neutral colour
-7, 4 - Change red multiplier up and down by 0.1
-8, 5 - Change green multiplier up and down by 0.1 (by reduced red/blue and increasing brightness)
-9, 6 - Change blue multiplier up and down by 0.1
-F - Toggle between drop-frame mode allowing synchronised audio playback, or sequential frame mode and no audio
-Q - Toggle between fast and high-quality demosaicing for playback (high-quality is used automatically when paused)
-A - Toggle anamorphic aspect to take into account the 1.4x squeeze from shooting 50p/60p
-S - Toggle anamorphic aspect to take into account anamorphic lenses (1.33x, 1.4x, 1.5x, 2.0x)
-W - File dialog to choose the export directory
-D - Choose export type, ProRes or H264, etc
-E - Add marked range to the export queue. Will use the source name with ".MOV" or "_DNG" appended.
-C - Export all files in the current directory using the current settings
-Y - Start processing, or pause processing of the export queue
-X - Cancel current export job (and start next one in queue)
-Z - Cancel all export jobs
-T - Toggle between Colorspaces (sRGB, Adobe, Rec.709, etc)
-J/K - Change to previous/next MLV/RAW file in same directory as current file
-V/B/N/M - Slide audio file start by -0.5,-0.05,+0.05,+0.5 seconds
-I/O - Set IN/OUT marks. IN mark must be before the OUT mark. OUT mark must be after the IN mark
-U/P - Jump to the previous/next marks
-R - Reset the marks to start/end of the file
-L - Toggle looping or play-once mode
-H/G - Save/load current colour balance & brightness (for matching multiple takes)
-0 (ZERO) - Toggle stripe/hot-pixel removing preprocess pass
-Shift-F - FPS override cycles through a range of standard FPS rates, overriding the clips default rate.
-Shift-L - Choose LUTs from .CUBE files to import. LUTs only need to be imported once.
-Shift-LEFT/RIGHT - Select 1D LUT 1 from the available (imported) 1D LUTs
-Shift-UP/DOWN - Select 3D LUT from the available (imported) 3D LUTs
-Shift-Z/X - Select 1D LUT 2 from the available (imported) 1D LUTs
-Shift-H - Show/Hide RGB Histogram
-Shift-1 - Remove current 1D1 LUT from index and current file
-Shift-3 - Remove current 3D LUT from index and current file

[martinhering]

@DeafEyeJedi

WOW. Thank you for your feedback.

[reddeercity]

+1 for @DeafEyeJedi said

Also finally gave Fooatage App a test drive  , up graded my OS from Yosemite to Sierra
on my MP4.1 (but you say sierra will not load on 4.1) yes I had to do a firmware upgrade to 5.1
and that was a interesting endeavor to say the least  , sorry back on topic .
Run some 14bit  and 10bit footage , did a very good job thou the shoot where exposure correctly
so I didn't have to do very much , I do like what I see . For me I really need ProRes 4444XQ ,
the problem for me is ProRes4444 is in Rec709 HD Color Space (16-235) where as XQ is linear(0-255 , full range) ,
so no crushing of the black (or out of range) & clipping hi-lights . But if I need to turn around footage quickly (news stuff)
then Yea ,  ProRes 4444 will work like a charm (pre-graded) so edit & go . 

[MitchLally]

10bit works for you reddeercity? I upgraded to Version 78 although 10 bit files are still looking very dark in the preview. On 5D3 – am I doing something wrong?

[timbytheriver]

Is anyone else having the 'pink-tint' all over / and crashing when selecting whitepicker tool in El Capitan (10.11.6) ?

Also this morning when I opened the app, when importing several [different] mlv files, no image at all appears – the preview screen is totally black.

Is there a way of deleting the app and its preferences (which folders?). Maybe I've screwed up in installing over an old version.

Can anyone shed a little light please?

Many thanks.

Tim

[saulbass]

>timbytheriver

I can confirm the same behaviour of this app under 10.11.6 - rendering it unusable.

I was wondering if it has something to do with the GPU? I've tried this on a 2012 mac mini which has an internal Intel 'gpu' and with a Macbook Pro which has Nvidia GPU hardware - the Macbook seems less unstable - though still unusable. i.e it still only dispays a corrupted pink screen but doesn't crash when interacting with the sliders.

Testing using a 650D at 10bits. Haven't yet tried other bit depths.

[timbytheriver]

@saulbass

Hey, thanks. I'm on 2011 MacMini with an AMD Radeon GPU. Don't know whether it's helpful info to debug. I can run Resolve 12.5 on my machine – but not this app! :/ Ha!

PS I'm on 5DMk2 with ML Nightly.2017Feb12.5D2212

[martinhering]

Is anyone else having the 'pink-tint' all over / and crashing when selecting whitepicker tool in El Capitan (10.11.6) ?

About the crashes. It seems that Metal was still a bit unstable in 10.11. I'll be changing it to OpenGL rendering. Hope this helps.

What do you actually mean with 'pink-tint'? Do you mean "magenta highlights"? You can reduce these using the last slider on the right. Or do you mean something totally different? Screenshot?

[TKez]

Great app, I'll be looking forward to trying it out when OpenGL is implemented.

Some suggestions for making this app killer for fast workflows.... if I may, ahem.

-Left pane browser (instead of '+') with folder favourites. See DaVinci Resolve for good example.
-Some way to tag MLV files. Using the standard Apple Finder tag meta would be great so it would reflect in Finder. Just the color tags would do.
-Comment files using the standard Finder comment meta.
-Delete MLV files from the app.
-Quickview plugin. I've experimented with this before, and looks like best we could hope for (since 10.6) would be a single frame preview. But when logging and organising 100s of MLVs, even a single poster frame preview would be a godsend. Seeing as you are using AVFoundation already, this should be perry easy.

[reddeercity]

10bit works for you reddeercity? I upgraded to Version 78 although 10 bit files are still looking very dark in the preview. On 5D3 – am I doing something wrong?

No I get the same problem , seems to be mac's graphic engine "Metal"
I took a Cdng from mlvfs extracted on macOS Seirra "Fresh Load" and compared the images in there respected viewers of Windows 7 Pro & Seirra
and Seirra is at least 3-4 stops darker (Maybe Truly Linear) . But did notice in the information tab of the Cdng , Color profile indicates "P3" so 2 things come to mind
like EXR files you would need a LUT/proper viewer as there are out of range of the computer display or in Mac's Color sync maybe it can be change to  "Adobe RGB" ?
I checked my MBP which is on Yoesmite 10.10.5 and the color profile is Adobe RGB (1998) when viewing Cdng's which looks the same as Win7.
And being this app uses all apple engines I would suspect the problem would continue in the pipe line

Original Cdng  I used  for the test https://www.dropbox.com/s/g64h0ulzopitcgg/M06-2157_000015.dng?dl=0

Native Viewer in MP5.1 Seirra , made a tiff copy and save to fickr

10bitMLV_mac_os_sierra_dark by RedDeerCityTV

Windows7 Pro Native Picture Viewer , took a Screen Shot crop out the viewer

10bit_dng_win7_preview by RedDeerCityTV


Windows7 Pro Native Picture Viewer , took a Screen Shot of the viewer

10bit_dng_win7_preview by RedDeerCityTV

[timbytheriver]

@martinhering

Hi Martin. Thanks for the reply.

What do you actually mean with 'pink-tint'? Do you mean "magenta highlights"? You can reduce these using the last slider on the right. Or do you mean something totally different? Screenshot?

Yes 'Magenta Highlights' – like we used to have right back at the very start of ML Raw in some processing apps! Slider makes minimal difference. Happy to grab a screenshot when I can get a file to load again! At the moment the app won't load any files, and the preview screen remains totally black.

Tim

[Lars Steenhoff]

Could you leave metal as an option please, I think that with the right hardware it will give higher performance.

[DeafEyeJedi]

Could you leave metal as an option please, I think that with the right hardware it will give higher performance.

+1

[dfort]

@martinhering -- It is hard to find your latest testing build. Most developers put a download link on their first post. Note that you and the moderators are the only ones that can edit your posts.

Better yet, a link to your repository so we can watch your commits as you update your app.

[dmilligan]

Better yet, a link to your repository

+1

[lostfeliz]

Great work so far!  The fact that I can just add the MLVs directly is such a relief. And the inclusion of the WAV audio on export! It's very early, but this feels how an intuitive Mac app should work. I have a lot of gripes about Premiere and Resolve's clumsy and space wasting interfaces. Lots of great suggestions so far for improvement.

I'm already using it to process b-roll from a shoot last week. An outdoor shot with a blown out background was easy to correct. Looks good enough to be the final look. I worked in Adobe RGB. Another shot indoors was a bit trickier. I tried to work with SLOG 2. Seemed most appropriate. I thought it was going to go well, but I hit a wall. I couldn't manipulate the tone how I'd like. I tried again and again. I went back to Adobe RGB and it went a bit better but I couldn't get the tones in her hair to my liking.

I have a suggestion of referencing Lightroom's Tone Curve section.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6kqcxopwog1uh8/Screenshot%202017-03-12%2021.55.32.png?dl=0
Besides how well it handles the each of four sliders, I love how it has the three sliders under the curve chart that lets you dial exactly where you want the four slider controls to work. I work a lot in Premiere, Resolve and Lightroom. I am always most comfortable with Lightroom's controls. Of course they have things that the others can't. Resolve is super powerful, but not what I need for my commercial work.

Question... if I wanted to export an ultra neutral ProRes 444 file from Footage, what do folks suggest we set things to? These files would be corrected later with Premiere's Lumestri panel.

Keep up the good work.

[martinhering]

New Version 0.1.2 (85) available:

- Added changing image aspect ratio
- Added changing frame rates (for slow motion, no audio)
- Added focus pixel filtering for 650D and 700D
- Fixed white balance picker
- Fixed crashes on 10.11 by switching rendering to OpenGL
- Fixed crash during export on 10.11

As usual, update with "Check for updates" menu or directly from here:
https://rink.hockeyapp.net/apps/3ed6ecf60e684239a6aba3d407cf3935/app_versions/34

[martinhering]

Code Select Expand

10bit works for you reddeercity? I upgraded to Version 78 although 10 bit files are still looking very dark in the preview. On 5D3 – am I doing something wrong?

I can reproduce the issue. When I crank up the exposure, I also get a lot of banding artefacts. I think the Apple RAW engine does not really know how to deal with 10bit RAW properly. This gets weirder and weirder every day. No wonder they canceled Aperture. I will try to convert the 10bit RAW into 14bit RAW first before handing it to the Apple APIs and see if I need to add some slight noise to avoid banding. We'll see.

[Lars Steenhoff]

The sharpness radius is too high, it creates black outlines. I would like to see half the radius of what is it currently.

[martinhering]

About the 10 bit. Yes, I could now confirm that. I am now just shifting the pixel values 4 bits to the left and thus feed a 14bit image to Apple's raw engine and the result is totally different:


http://fs.footageformac.com/tests/apple_raw_10vs14bit.png

It also helps a lot in terms of aliasing:


http://fs.footageformac.com/tests/aliasing_10vs14bit.png

[Teamsleepkid]

its getting really good. i still have these white boxes on my footage when i use the sharpness setting. image seems to look better though. the best results I've ever had is resolve with neat video and then sharpen. this is getting closer and closer to that. the resolve method takes like 8 mins for 15 seconds of video to process though. yours is much faster:)

that 14bit pic looks very promising is that in this build? can't wait to try it. looks like you really did beat down the aliasing:)

[martinhering]

New version 0.1.3 (89) available:

• Fixed crash when changing frame rate on 10.11
• Improved 10/12 bit image aliasing and banding by upsampling

Please try especially 10 bit and 12 bit content.

https://rink.hockeyapp.net/apps/3ed6ecf60e684239a6aba3d407cf3935/app_versions/36