Author Topic: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?  (Read 6708 times)

Roberto Mena

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7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« on: May 24, 2016, 12:11:41 AM »
Using the raw/mlv resolution, write speed and crop factor calculator:

http://rbrune.github.io/mlraw/

7D (1728 x 1152)  /  5DIII (1920 x 1280) = 7D records at 90% the resolution compared to the 5dIII?

Am I doing the math right here?



Walter Schulz

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2016, 12:21:22 AM »
Not sure what you are trying to ask but all Canon DSLRs working with in "native" mode are doing "native" (RAW photo mode) resolution/3 for RAW/MLV (+- some pixels).

Roberto Mena

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2016, 12:29:04 AM »
The difference in surface area between (5DIII) 1920 x 1280 v (7D) 1728 x 1152 = is only 10%.

So does that mean, that the 7D's smaller APS-C sensor (that records at a max RAW/MLV 1728 x 1152 resolution) is actually still recording at 90% of the 5DIII max resolution OF 1920 X 1280?



Walter Schulz

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2016, 12:50:48 AM »
Surface *area* is
36 x 24 mm = 100 %
22.3 x 14.9 mm = 38.6 %
Difference is 61.4 percent

Absolute number of pixels (in RAW/MLV video output) is
1920 x 1280 = 2457600 = 100 %
1728 x 1152 = 1990656 = 81 %
Difference for pixels is 19 %.

Difference for vertical and horizontal pixels is 10 %.

Still not sure what you are asking.

Roberto Mena

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2016, 11:08:07 PM »
According the to the 'raw/mlv resolution, write speed and crop factor calculator', the 7D is one of only two small-frame APS-C sensor Canon cameras that can shoot continuously RAW/MLV at a decent  video resolution using the entire area of its sensor (width-wise) … but it its maximum resolution is 1728 x 1152 as opposed to the 5DIII that is a full-frame sensor camera and can shoot RAW/MLV in full 1920 x 1152 resolution.

So here is my question, how does the Canon 7D compare to the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera? Because the BMPCC uses a 4/3 sensor that is even smaller than the 7D’s APC-S sensor. But according to BMC’s specs, the BMPCC shoots RAW video in full 1920 x 1280 resolution.

In other words, what is better RAW HD video? One produced from a smaller 4/3 sensor but is output in 1920 x 1280 (BMPCC) or RAW HD video produced from a bigger APC-S sensor using the sensor’s entire surface area but shot at a lower resolution of 1728 x 1152? Or they kind of balance each other out and are kind of similar in quality?

beauchampy

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2016, 01:34:53 AM »
I can tell you that I regularly use the 7d as a B cam to the 5d3 (both RAW).

Go to 0:23 on this video. You'll see three different angles of the interviewee one after another. Two of them are 5d, one of them is 7d. I bet you can't tell which is which..

Now, onto your question. I haven't got a BMPCC, however I have extensively graded footage shot raw from that camera and used it in a project mixed with 5d3 raw. I can tell you a few things.
- In terms of resolution, the upscaled 7d RAW looks marginally worse than a native 1920x1080 frame, however it still looks fantastic. Nothing to worry about there.
- Both the 7d and BMPCC suffer from similar amounts of moire in RAW, maybe the 7d a fraction more.
- The dynamic range from the BMPCC really shines above and beyond the 5d3. I also find I can recover more dynamic range from the 5d3 raw compared to the 7d raw, so that's definitely something to take into account.
- IMO the BMPCC is closer to the 5d3  (but as I said, but with greater DR, noisier and suffers from mild moire)

For the difference in price between the BMPCC + Speedbooster compared to what you can pick up a used 7d for, it does make sense to get a 7d (especially if you're basing it on how many pixels you get for your buck). However, I would say the incredible dynamic range of the BMPCC puts it into another league.

Roberto Mena

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2016, 04:06:50 AM »
Walter Schulz and beauchampy thanks for all your input. beauchampy, especially the way you compared the 5dIII and BMPCC with the 7D, that was very helpful.

PaulHarwood856

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2016, 04:25:23 AM »
Hey beauchampy,

     I really enjoyed watching your video. Amazing detail, and makes me so psyched to be using a 7D for raw video. Great colors and use of Filmconvert as well. Quick question: Do you find a major difference between DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro CC 2015/After Effects CC 2015 for color grading? I imagine this question must get asked a lot, however I'm curious about what your opinion is. Personally, round tripping from Adobe to Resolve I've read and heard can be a pain, but if there's a significant difference it may be worth it. The skin tones were really good in this video by the way. Oh, one more question: Did you Denoise in DaVinci Resolve or use Neat Video or some kind of denoise software? It looks like controlled lighting so I wasn't sure if you did or not. Thanks.

- Paul Harwood

beauchampy

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2016, 10:16:09 AM »
Hey beauchampy,

     I really enjoyed watching your video. Amazing detail, and makes me so psyched to be using a 7D for raw video. Great colors and use of Filmconvert as well. Quick question: Do you find a major difference between DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro CC 2015/After Effects CC 2015 for color grading? I imagine this question must get asked a lot, however I'm curious about what your opinion is. Personally, round tripping from Adobe to Resolve I've read and heard can be a pain, but if there's a significant difference it may be worth it. The skin tones were really good in this video by the way. Oh, one more question: Did you Denoise in DaVinci Resolve or use Neat Video or some kind of denoise software? It looks like controlled lighting so I wasn't sure if you did or not. Thanks.

- Paul Harwood

No problem Paul. My limited experience using DNGs inside of Premiere Pro has not been a good one. Pink highlights, ugly colours.. just blergh! I always round trip using Resolve. Once you have it down, it's fairly easy to do. The interview lighting was controlled  (a couple 4-bank fluorescents) but I do de-noise using Neat Video inside Resolve as part of the colour grading process if I need to.

andy kh

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2016, 10:50:54 AM »
I bought a bmpcc last year and sold out after using for few days since it doesnt perform well in low light and i dint like that crop sensor.
5D Mark III - 70D

beauchampy

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2016, 11:21:52 AM »
I bought a bmpcc last year and sold out after using for few days since it doesnt perform well in low light and i dint like that crop sensor.

you really need the speedbooster

Huynhhha

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2016, 11:32:49 AM »
Why is that? How to calculate it?  :-X My math is not good. Pardon me.

Roberto Mena

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2016, 08:30:03 PM »
How do you upload a pic on a post on this forum? If I hit the "Insert Image" button all I get inside the response window is this message "img/img" but my picture is not uploaded. Same thing if I drag the pic into the response window.

Walter Schulz

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PaulHarwood856

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Re: 7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2016, 01:36:42 AM »
Hey beauchampy,

     I have tried to use cinema dngs in Premiere Pro as well, and it was a nightmare. I believe it's because they are 14 bit, and Premiere Pro supports up to 10 bit I believe. It is better to transcode to ProRes 4444 XQ using After Effects and Cinelog profiles via Adobe Camera Raw. I definitely need to learn Resolve, will make sure to do so in the future. This makes me excited to learn to round trip! I love Neat Video, and that's great you use it in DaVinci Resolve. Have you ever used the denoiser in DaVinci Resolve; no third party plugin? I was wondering how the denoiser in Resolve is, have heard a few good things about it. Thanks for your reply by the way, much appreciated.

- Paul Harwood