7D records at 90% the resolution of 5DIII?

Started by Roberto Mena, May 24, 2016, 12:11:41 AM

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Roberto Mena

Using the raw/mlv resolution, write speed and crop factor calculator:

http://rbrune.github.io/mlraw/

7D (1728 x 1152)  /  5DIII (1920 x 1280) = 7D records at 90% the resolution compared to the 5dIII?

Am I doing the math right here?



Walter Schulz

Not sure what you are trying to ask but all Canon DSLRs working with in "native" mode are doing "native" (RAW photo mode) resolution/3 for RAW/MLV (+- some pixels).

Roberto Mena

The difference in surface area between (5DIII) 1920 x 1280 v (7D) 1728 x 1152 = is only 10%.

So does that mean, that the 7D's smaller APS-C sensor (that records at a max RAW/MLV 1728 x 1152 resolution) is actually still recording at 90% of the 5DIII max resolution OF 1920 X 1280?



Walter Schulz

Surface *area* is
36 x 24 mm = 100 %
22.3 x 14.9 mm = 38.6 %
Difference is 61.4 percent

Absolute number of pixels (in RAW/MLV video output) is
1920 x 1280 = 2457600 = 100 %
1728 x 1152 = 1990656 = 81 %
Difference for pixels is 19 %.

Difference for vertical and horizontal pixels is 10 %.

Still not sure what you are asking.

Roberto Mena

According the to the 'raw/mlv resolution, write speed and crop factor calculator', the 7D is one of only two small-frame APS-C sensor Canon cameras that can shoot continuously RAW/MLV at a decent  video resolution using the entire area of its sensor (width-wise) ... but it its maximum resolution is 1728 x 1152 as opposed to the 5DIII that is a full-frame sensor camera and can shoot RAW/MLV in full 1920 x 1152 resolution.

So here is my question, how does the Canon 7D compare to the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera? Because the BMPCC uses a 4/3 sensor that is even smaller than the 7D's APC-S sensor. But according to BMC's specs, the BMPCC shoots RAW video in full 1920 x 1280 resolution.

In other words, what is better RAW HD video? One produced from a smaller 4/3 sensor but is output in 1920 x 1280 (BMPCC) or RAW HD video produced from a bigger APC-S sensor using the sensor's entire surface area but shot at a lower resolution of 1728 x 1152? Or they kind of balance each other out and are kind of similar in quality?

beauchampy

I can tell you that I regularly use the 7d as a B cam to the 5d3 (both RAW).

Go to 0:23 on this video. You'll see three different angles of the interviewee one after another. Two of them are 5d, one of them is 7d. I bet you can't tell which is which..
https://vimeo.com/147846442

Now, onto your question. I haven't got a BMPCC, however I have extensively graded footage shot raw from that camera and used it in a project mixed with 5d3 raw. I can tell you a few things.
- In terms of resolution, the upscaled 7d RAW looks marginally worse than a native 1920x1080 frame, however it still looks fantastic. Nothing to worry about there.
- Both the 7d and BMPCC suffer from similar amounts of moire in RAW, maybe the 7d a fraction more.
- The dynamic range from the BMPCC really shines above and beyond the 5d3. I also find I can recover more dynamic range from the 5d3 raw compared to the 7d raw, so that's definitely something to take into account.
- IMO the BMPCC is closer to the 5d3  (but as I said, but with greater DR, noisier and suffers from mild moire)

For the difference in price between the BMPCC + Speedbooster compared to what you can pick up a used 7d for, it does make sense to get a 7d (especially if you're basing it on how many pixels you get for your buck). However, I would say the incredible dynamic range of the BMPCC puts it into another league.

Roberto Mena

Walter Schulz and beauchampy thanks for all your input. beauchampy, especially the way you compared the 5dIII and BMPCC with the 7D, that was very helpful.

PaulHarwood856

Hey beauchampy,

     I really enjoyed watching your video. Amazing detail, and makes me so psyched to be using a 7D for raw video. Great colors and use of Filmconvert as well. Quick question: Do you find a major difference between DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro CC 2015/After Effects CC 2015 for color grading? I imagine this question must get asked a lot, however I'm curious about what your opinion is. Personally, round tripping from Adobe to Resolve I've read and heard can be a pain, but if there's a significant difference it may be worth it. The skin tones were really good in this video by the way. Oh, one more question: Did you Denoise in DaVinci Resolve or use Neat Video or some kind of denoise software? It looks like controlled lighting so I wasn't sure if you did or not. Thanks.

- Paul Harwood

beauchampy

Quote from: PaulHarwood856 on May 25, 2016, 04:25:23 AM
Hey beauchampy,

     I really enjoyed watching your video. Amazing detail, and makes me so psyched to be using a 7D for raw video. Great colors and use of Filmconvert as well. Quick question: Do you find a major difference between DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro CC 2015/After Effects CC 2015 for color grading? I imagine this question must get asked a lot, however I'm curious about what your opinion is. Personally, round tripping from Adobe to Resolve I've read and heard can be a pain, but if there's a significant difference it may be worth it. The skin tones were really good in this video by the way. Oh, one more question: Did you Denoise in DaVinci Resolve or use Neat Video or some kind of denoise software? It looks like controlled lighting so I wasn't sure if you did or not. Thanks.

- Paul Harwood

No problem Paul. My limited experience using DNGs inside of Premiere Pro has not been a good one. Pink highlights, ugly colours.. just blergh! I always round trip using Resolve. Once you have it down, it's fairly easy to do. The interview lighting was controlled  (a couple 4-bank fluorescents) but I do de-noise using Neat Video inside Resolve as part of the colour grading process if I need to.

andy kh

I bought a bmpcc last year and sold out after using for few days since it doesnt perform well in low light and i dint like that crop sensor.
5D Mark III - 70D

beauchampy

Quote from: andy kh on May 25, 2016, 10:50:54 AM
I bought a bmpcc last year and sold out after using for few days since it doesnt perform well in low light and i dint like that crop sensor.

you really need the speedbooster

Huynhhha

Why is that? How to calculate it?  :-X My math is not good. Pardon me.

Roberto Mena

How do you upload a pic on a post on this forum? If I hit the "Insert Image" button all I get inside the response window is this message "img/img" but my picture is not uploaded. Same thing if I drag the pic into the response window.


PaulHarwood856

Hey beauchampy,

     I have tried to use cinema dngs in Premiere Pro as well, and it was a nightmare. I believe it's because they are 14 bit, and Premiere Pro supports up to 10 bit I believe. It is better to transcode to ProRes 4444 XQ using After Effects and Cinelog profiles via Adobe Camera Raw. I definitely need to learn Resolve, will make sure to do so in the future. This makes me excited to learn to round trip! I love Neat Video, and that's great you use it in DaVinci Resolve. Have you ever used the denoiser in DaVinci Resolve; no third party plugin? I was wondering how the denoiser in Resolve is, have heard a few good things about it. Thanks for your reply by the way, much appreciated.

- Paul Harwood