Author Topic: Is anyone working on fixing crop mode live view?  (Read 5412 times)

erikbaldwinson

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Is anyone working on fixing crop mode live view?
« on: April 11, 2016, 10:35:12 PM »
Is anyone going to fix crop mode's live view?

If we could record 2k with a live-view that maintains a reasonable frame rate with a latency that is acceptable (perhaps sacrificing colour/resolution entirely) thus allowing objects to be tracked on a tripod or steadicam in proper framing I think this would be impressively significant.

In my opinion, following that the only other thing left on the table would be recording 1080p or damn close at 48p unsquashed. 38P in 1080p looks better than 60p squashed in 720P mode. Can someone squeeze another 10 frames out?


Is there potential for someone to make these two things a reality?

Sincerely,
Erik

markodarko

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Re: Is anyone working on fixing crop mode live view?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2016, 08:18:41 PM »
I'm not sure what you mean by "fixing" live-view but A1ex recently announced a new crop mode feature which allows you to shoot in 1:1 crop mode at 1080p in colour. Check out THIS thread. It's not currently part of the nightly builds so you'll have to download from that page.

As for getting continuous 48fps at 1080p I believe that's not possible due to the data rate required. Have you tried shooting at 38fps at a high shutter speed (say 1/300 or faster depending on your subject - if you're filming something that moves quite quickly then you may even need 1/4000 or faster to capture "crisp" frames) and then using optical flow slow-mo in post to slow it down to 60fps or more? Most NLEs now have optical flow as an option when doing slow-mo. I've had good results from filming running shots at 32fps with a fast shutter and slowing down by 50% in FCPX with optical flow enabled.

erikbaldwinson

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Re: Is anyone working on fixing crop mode live view?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2016, 08:30:11 PM »
Am I the only one who once recording using old crop mode the liveview goes from respectable to about 3fps with intense latency? Fixing would mean during recording a reasonable frame rate with an acceptable amount of latency that allows you to track objects.

Okay but when using the new crop mode and shooting 48p or 60p at 1:1 doesn't that require you to shoot at an exceptionally wide aspect ratio? Can you view it with the Canon live-view or only the hacked live-view at 3fps or whatever?

Can you share your good results using the optical flow you spoke of? To be honest I'm hopeful but doubtful..

kgv5

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Re: Is anyone working on fixing crop mode live view?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2016, 11:03:32 PM »
I was testing slomo modes recently (5d3 1.1.3) - 1080p 37fps (2,35:1 aspect) vs 50fps 720p squashed vs 50fps "new crop"  mode. The "new crop mode" has 1080p quality but much wider aspect ratio - about 3:1  - i was getting very nice results with resolution 1568x672 which is like 3:1 aspect zoomed a little bit to match 2,35:1 - it  gives better overall image quality than 1920x672 (720p squashed) mode, no aliasing and it is continous. In 2.35:1 it is cropped though - 1,22x. It is so nice to have both options :)

37 fps works great (sandisk 128gb 160mb/s - 6-7 seconds 16:9, 18-20 seconds 2.35:1) but i had to turn global draw and sound recording to OFF to avoid pink frames. 
www.pilotmovies.pl   5D Mark III, 6D, 550D

erikbaldwinson

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Re: Is anyone working on fixing crop mode live view?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 12:19:13 AM »
So you shot 1920x672 and then cropped it in post? How would you frame in camera, tape? (blah...)
And how does live-view behave, proper resolution full colour feed?

Would you put the camera on a tripod and shoot some water moving and share?

kgv5

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Re: Is anyone working on fixing crop mode live view?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2016, 08:15:00 AM »
IMO it is better to shoot 1568x672 unless you want this ultra wide aspect ratio. Cropping in post is a waste of data rate if you want 2,35:1 because 1920x672 gives you (with sandisk 128gb 160mb/s) about 10 seconds of 50p, after cropping in post you get exactly the same image as 1568x672 (which it is continous). Live-view works normally, fully usable for framing, focusing etc, it has  a little bit of anamorphic distortion (it is stretched vertically) but everything you see on the screen is recorded (1568x672 crop is included of course with global draw on).
www.pilotmovies.pl   5D Mark III, 6D, 550D

erikbaldwinson

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Re: Is anyone working on fixing crop mode live view?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 10:18:26 AM »
Why does it have vertical stretch? I'm also reading about noise problems and other issues.. it doesn't sound like a 60p solution, it sounds like another compromise. So far the best compromise in my opinion is to just shoot 39fps in 1080p mode and set the shutter to around 180 - 270 degrees. It is basically continuous and the image quality takes no hit. For human expression and movement it feels like slow motion.

a1ex

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Re: Is anyone working on fixing crop mode live view?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 12:42:26 PM »
erikbaldwinson,

At 60 fps, you have 1920x664 RAW, cropped vertically from 1920x1280, with square pixels, with image quality identical in all other aspects to the 1080p30 one (noise, pixel binning, rolling shutter), with full color preview, at full FPS, but preview is stretched.

Why is the preview stretched? Because - as explained in the first post - I only change the captured area and the pixel binning factors - nothing else. And, since Canon's 60fps implementation was based on a stretched raw image (5x3 binning), when changing the binning factor to either 3x3 or 1x1, Canon's preview (and H.264) doesn't know about that, so the display ends up stretched.

You also have the option to shoot 1:1 crop at 60 fps, at the same resolution (1920x664). Of course, that one has more noise, just like a small-sensor camera is noisier than a full-frame one  - is that what you call "noise problems"? Should I remove that option so you can no longer "read about noise problems"?

Your demanding attitude is not appreciated. Please calm down.

squig

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Re: Is anyone working on fixing crop mode live view?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2016, 01:38:44 PM »
I concur. Don't be a dick Erik. Respect is due for the brilliant work done by the ML developers. Be thankful for what you're given and don't whinge. If you want perfection buy an Alexa.

erikbaldwinson

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Re: Is anyone working on fixing crop mode live view?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2016, 09:01:06 PM »
Hey a1ex thanks for the articulate response, I now understand how you are negotiating with the canon firmware. I'm thinking the 1:1 crop will be good for tight slow-mo shots. I see how my writing has a demanding tone to it however it wasn't my intent to seem demanding or to demand anything. When I read about the different modes I like to understand the oddities and quirks.

Squig I've tried to order an Alexa but my credit card has been acting up so I'm stuck dicking around with my 5d3 and this magic lantern bs, I'm suffering a lot but I'll survive. ;)

Thanks again for everything!

Audionut

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Re: Is anyone working on fixing crop mode live view?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2016, 12:54:05 AM »
Life is compromise.........Why should ML be any different!