Author Topic: Buy a 7d? slow motion?  (Read 9915 times)

_OLLE_

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Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« on: March 29, 2016, 05:34:24 PM »
Hi, I don’t know if placed the thread right but anyway I wonder a little bit about what you guys think about shooting raw with the 7D and especially the slow motion capabilities.
Now I have a canon 600d/t3i and I plan to buy a second hand canon 7d just to get more reading/writing speed. 
Overall what experience do you guys have of shooting raw with the Canon 7D? any specific things?
I have been looking around on these two links for information about the 7ds capabilities ( http://rbrune.github.io/mlraw/  and https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16cgnRivbUv7nA9PUlCLmLdir3gXdIN3pqzCNAAybepc/edit#gid=5 ). My conclusion is that the maximum writing speed is around 80 mbps and especially if you use this Sandisk cf card that guaranty at least 65 mbps and maximum 160 mbps, I think it is the fastest CF card on the market! (https://www.sandisk.com/home/memory-cards/compact-flash/extremepro-compactflash ). According to these two site: ( http://rbrune.github.io/mlraw/ and https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16cgnRivbUv7nA9PUlCLmLdir3gXdIN3pqzCNAAybepc/edit#gid=5  With aspect ratio 2,35.1 it will be possible to record 1728x442 at 60fps for a pretty long time. Am I right? How long?
I also would be really glad if someone could do a test for me? I really should appreciated it. I would be really glad if someone could record a MLVfile in highest possible resolution (1728x442) with aspect ratio 2.35:1 at 60 fps (Change NSTC to PAL in the Canon menu to record 60fps insted of 50fps) and send me a download link to that file.
One more thing; I wonder how good the 7d is in aliasing compared to the 600d/t3i?

Best regards Olle

andy kh

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2016, 09:27:51 PM »
only mark iii is gud for slowmotion in raw. there is a specific threat for 7d slowmotion. so many people have already done so many test  there are issues like color moire when u shoot in outdoors in bright daylight
5D Mark III - 70D

_OLLE_

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2016, 04:23:32 PM »
Anyone that knows a little bit more about shooting raw with the 7D? Would be really glad to hear your thoughts!

beauchampy

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2016, 04:54:31 PM »
Anyone that knows a little bit more about shooting raw with the 7D? Would be really glad to hear your thoughts!

I've got a 7d sat here infront of me. Tried your test and got 47 seconds. Anything else you want me to try?

_OLLE_

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2016, 06:55:35 PM »
Thanks man! So you recorded in 1728x442 - 2.35:1 - 60fps for 47 seconds right? That sounds awesome! What card? Have you "Frame skipping" on or off? And this isn't a april joke?!

beauchampy

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2016, 08:19:46 PM »
Thanks man! So you recorded in 1728x442 - 2.35:1 - 60fps for 47 seconds right? That sounds awesome! What card? Have you "Frame skipping" on or off? And this isn't a april joke?!

No April fools, no! Frame skipping was off, global draw off. Card is a Komputerbay 128gb 1066x

DeafEyeJedi

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Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2016, 09:06:07 PM »
Just beware of the aliasing in 50p/60p coming from 7D's sensor. It's nothing comparing to what the 5D3 can deliver when it comes to slo-mo.

But the best part about the 7D is the 48fps unsqueezed footage bug that @N/A discovered which can be extremely useful and handy at times!  ;)

I wish the 5D3 had this similar so called bug ... Ha but hey don't forget @a1ex's recent update from last night which is no April's Fools.

Should you buy the 7D? Yep you shall while you can. It's a great B Cam.
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_OLLE_

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2016, 10:54:08 PM »
Thanks alot guys! Therefore my day trying to shoot some skiing stuff was totally unsuccessful because of the "april bug". I can't trust you to 100% but anyway I think the 7d is a big upgrade from my 600d.

PaulHarwood856

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2016, 11:16:32 PM »
Hey _OLLE_,

     I upgraded from the 600D (still use it) to a 7D, main reason being for raw video and photography. I bought it used with a battery grip (prevents overheating) and two Canon batteries for a very reasonable price. I actually met up with someone of Craig's List in the summer of 2015 to buy it, and still talk to him about photography. He took excellent care of it.

     If you are on a tight budget, and cannot afford the 5D Mark III like me, I would buy the VAF-7D Anti Aliasing Filter from Mosaic Engineering to avoid the aliasing and moire issue for 60p. Many people have a misconception that this filter doesn't work for 720p. I have spoke with this company many times, and although the filter isn't specifically designed for it, it does work. And I have tested this, it does work.

     You can also look into a plugin called Twixtor, to enhance the slow motion from the 7D. It is by REVision Effects, and creates more frames than was actually recorded in the camera.

     Just keep in mind, you will need a 1000x or 1066x card to pull of 60p. I recommend Lexar or Sandisk, but people have reported KomputerBay works good too.

     Since the 7D is a crop sensor camera, it is not the best in low light. If you are shooting video where you don't have as much light as you want available, and you have to bump up the ISO, you can use Neat Video to remove the digital noise from the 7D. I actually use this even in good lighting when I have the time, however the 7D has more of a natural grain when shot in raw, which is an advantage.

     Please let me know if you have any questions. I have not regretted buying the 7D at all, and absolutely love it! Many of my recent videos were shot with the 7D in raw video, if you want to take a look. www.vimeo.com/paulharwood856

    I hope this helps!

- Paul Harwood

fattony

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2016, 09:07:25 AM »
I just sold my 7D and 5D Mark II for just that reason. No good slow motion with the 7D. All the lines get damaged (to much aliasing!!!). 5Dm3 is a dream when using slow. 50fps.

_OLLE_

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2016, 10:54:20 AM »
Thanks so much guys! Of course the aliasing is a problem but is it worse than the 600d/t3i?

a1ex

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2016, 12:09:19 PM »
Aliasing is identical in all ML-enabled cameras, except 5D3 (at the time of writing). Here you can see my current hypothesis about this topic.

For slow motion, you may want to take a look here as well.

PaulHarwood856

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2016, 09:34:55 PM »
Hey _OLLE_,

     You're welcome, glad to help out! I also forgot to mention, using a flat picture style with H.264 video will greatly reduce aliasing. I believe it reduces moire too, but don't quote me on that. The only other thing I'm unsure is if the aliasing comes back when sharpening is applied in post production. 720p has a lot more aliasing and moire than 1080p though. I personally use Visiontech picture profile, which also comes with VisionColor. I believe it's $10. I have heard great things from people using the Cinestyle profile too. Hope this helps.

- Paul Harwood

a1ex

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2016, 11:16:01 PM »
using a flat picture style with H.264 video will greatly reduce aliasing

Proof, please.

andy kh

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2016, 06:24:18 AM »
@Hey-_Olle_ shooting using cinestyle or flat picture style wil not reduce aliasing at all
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_OLLE_

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2016, 12:02:16 PM »
Thanks for all help! I did some research on internet and my conclusion was that I'm first going to buy the camera and then later maybe even a Vaf filter! Thanks again!

_OLLE_

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2016, 03:31:02 PM »
Now I have had my 7d a couple of weeks and made some tests and I'm a little bit disaponted because I can only record 20-25 sec at 60fps and crop mode 2,5k only 10 sec at 24fps. I use a Sandisk extream pro 64gb (160mb/s). Anyone that can help me achive the 47 sec @beauchampy said!???

Walter Schulz

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2016, 04:19:00 PM »
Here: 47 s in 1728x736@60 and 14 s in 2496x1062@24 with KB 128 GB 1066x.

Settings used?
Benchmark numbers ok?
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

_OLLE_

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2016, 05:50:49 PM »
Hi, Walter thanks for reply! My settings is (mlv_rec) 1728x736 - 60fps - 2.35.1 and 2496x1062 - 24fps - 2.35.1

Nightly.2016May06./7D203

Create Directory: Off
Global Draw:Off
Frame Skipping: Off
Preview Options: Auto
Status When Recording: Icon
Start Delay: Off
Digital Dolly: Off
Card Warm-up: 64MB
Use SRM Job Memory: On
Extra Hacks: On
Debug Trace: Off
Show Buffer Graph: Off
Buffer Fill Method: 4
Reserve Card Space: On

Unfortunately I haven't find the benchmark feature on the camera :/ can you tell me where I can find it so can I test that!?

Walter Schulz

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2016, 05:54:25 PM »
Modules -> Bench.mo
Restart
Debug -> Benchmarks -> Card Benchmarks -> Quick R/W benchmark (1 min)

And there are some settings you missed to tell: Modules loaded, video mode settings in Canon menu, fps override in crop mode, audio on/off?
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

_OLLE_

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2016, 06:40:53 PM »
How do I upload the Benchmark file?


DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2016, 06:55:03 PM »
I use flicker to upload images and post the url link to here... Even tho there are also other options to host your images online.
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

_OLLE_

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2016, 06:57:44 PM »
Benchmark: Average Write: 51,6 Average Read: 63,5

No other modules loaded
Canon video settings: 720p 60fps
Fps override in crop mode @ 24fps

What do you think?

Walter Schulz

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2016, 07:13:24 PM »
I suppose you are in video mode "MV-1080 LCD" and "average write" means (write bench 1 + write bench 2)/2.
Numbers are a bit low IMO.
What are your numbers in photo mode?

If you don't get write numbers above 80 in photo mode, you might want to verify card integrity with F3X (OS X) (f3 if you are able to compile) or h2testw (Windows) and run a benchmark using USB 3.x cardreader.
Recommended: Blackmagic Disk Speed Test (OS X) or CrystalDiskMark (Windows).
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

_OLLE_

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2016, 07:39:34 PM »
I'm not sure what you mean with "MV-1080 LCD" but in photo mode I get:

Write: (86,8+90,2)/2 = 88,5

Read: (108,2+108,4)/2 = 108,3

Walter Schulz

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2016, 08:02:12 PM »
Mode is shown in third line on benchmark screen.
Card looks good.

I think my cam shows some inconsistent benchmark results in video mode after messing with video settings and some recordings. Not yet ready for bug reporting, though.

Not sure how to make 47s happen for your cam.
Suggestion: Clean up card, disable audio recording (Canon menu) and retry.
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

andy kh

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2016, 08:31:45 PM »
#olle u wil regret buying 7D for shooting slomo
5D Mark III - 70D

_OLLE_

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2016, 09:20:39 PM »
@andy kh No but it would be nice to get 14 sec 2,5k!

With canon sound off I get 44 sec @60fps but still just 10sec 2,5k

Walter Schulz

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2016, 09:43:18 PM »
Well, I get 101 s @60 and 14 s with 2.5k (Canon setting 1920x1080@24 and 1920x1080@25)
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

_OLLE_

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2016, 09:59:15 PM »
strange!  >:(  Do you know if there is other benchmark tests with Sandsik extreme pro and 7d here on the forum?

PaulHarwood856

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2016, 01:26:05 AM »
Hey _OLLE_,

     I apologize for misinforming you and everyone else about flat picture profiles reducing moire and aliasing. I had seen this in a video (don't remember which one it was off the top of my head), and thought it was true based on experience, but I must be wrong as stated here.

     The VAF-7D and VAF-TXI are great though.

     When shooting raw video I did get some aliasing on a small video I made with a friend. If you would like to see the aliasing for comparison even with the filter,  here is the link:

   I did use fps override for a couple shots which resulted in greater aliasing.

   Although I still need to do more testing, 60 fps on the 7D looks nice. It does suffer from moire, but when I upload some shots in the future I can show how the VAF-7D did with 720p even with moire issues. I haven't processed the video yet.

   There is one shot of a water sprinkler in a pond in the video I linked. This was 3x crop mode with the VAF-7D at 60 fps (I don't remember the resolution). Make sure not to do that. The quality suffers terribly.

    I plan to use Twixtor with 60 fps ML Raw when I edit it. I know some people don't like the 7D with 60 fps, but maybe the software will improve it after editing.

    I hope this helps, and again, sorry for misinforming you. I read that you were disappointed with the 7D. I feel bad you are, sorry if I let you down.

- Paul Harwood

    I hope this helps you.

VMS-studio

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2016, 10:16:52 AM »
My issues with slo-motion and the two cents.

These cameras shoot 60fps and with lower res mainly. 60FPS is too little for a good slo-mo.

My two cents are get an iPhone :D iPhone 5s shoots with a 120fps and iPhone 6 and above shoots 240fps.

I shoot with 240fps and then I can slow it down even further with The Foundry's Kronos plugin in After Effects.

The only thing is, the lens won't match, but you get artifact-free slow mo (especially if you don't work on it in the post)

PaulHarwood856

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Re: Buy a 7d? slow motion?
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2016, 08:41:11 AM »
Hey VMS-studio,

      This is great information, thank you. Unfortunately The Foundry's Kronos plugin for AE is no longer available, since September 2015. This is a bummer because it seems it works well with Cuda. I currently use Twixtor, which is great. I find Twixtor works well for 60 fps footage. It is possible to shoot 60 fps Raw Video with the 7D, and I think it looks pretty good. I have the iPhone 6S Plus. Great camera, but I still am in love with the 7D and it's extended capabilities thanks to the Magic Lantern team. There is a way to attach Canon lenses to iPhones, but there is a sacrifice in quality unfortunately. The 6S Plus has in body image stabilization which is a nice plus.

- Paul Harwood