CF cards problems, ML related? 5DmkII

Started by dav_ma, January 21, 2016, 09:03:13 PM

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dav_ma

Hi everyone,

I have been using Magic Latern regularly on my Canon 5D mark II since last summer and every now and then I've experienced different problems with all the cards I've installed ML on. Of course I understand that ML is not perfectly stable, but I thought it was worth listing some of the issues that I've experienced to see if other users have had them too and whether they've found a solution to them, or just ask for advice. So here's a list:

1. "Error 02 - There is a problem with external media": with most of the CF cards that I've installed ML on (2 x Lexar 32gb 800x , Lexar 64 1066x, Sandisk Extreme 16gb), I've encountered the "Error 02 - There is a problem with external media". Some (most?) of the times that this happened the resulting video file (I mostly work with videos) could not be played back and was unusable. While taking pictures this does not occur as much, but it did happen to me while during time-lapse sessions.

Actually, my CF cards have really suffered ML use, as well as they don't seem to be getting along with various card readers: my first 32gb Lexar 800x gave up over the summer and I was told by Lexar that it might have been caused by my use of a Transcend card reader with it. I started using a Lexar card reader with the new card and all my other ones and most problems seemed to disappear until December, when for a job I had to repeatedly use a different card reader on all my cards. That's when I started getting a lot of Err 02 again, as well as "Cannot playback the video file" in camera and the problem that I am going to explain next.

2. Recording stops/restarts automatically (NOT RAW): Sometimes, while recording a video, the camera simply stops recording automatically a few seconds after I hit record. Sometimes it stops and then starts again automatically. When this happens, some sort of a sound recording icon appears on the screen. I can't find an image for that icone I'm afraid, but it looks like three little vertical bars stacked on top of each other, appearing from the lowest to the top one and that's when the camera stops recording. I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense.

3. Rode Videomic Pro audio irregularities: Using my Rode Videomic Pro (+20 gain selected on the mic), the sound on a few video files presents an initial loud "pop" or volume excess, as if when I hit record on the camera, there was an initial power show that afterwards gets dealt with an goes back to normal sound. This is not a major issue, as the first few seconds of each video file aren't usually material that I need to use, however this did not happen before installing ML. The same issue present itself with every CF card I use, although it seems definitely louder on some cards than on others.

All my cards should still be covered by manufacturer's warranty so I'm thinking about having them replaced. However it'd be great if I could receive some feedback on other users, in case these are known issues (I used the search function, but didn't seem to find the same problems I've encountered so far) or if just someone has experienced them as well.

It'd also be great if anyone had any advice on how to deal with the CF cards problems before sending them back. Should I try uninstall ML and formatting them from my computer first maybe? Does it sound possible that only using them with a different card reader could cause such problems?

In case it were useful, I could post the some of the logs some the Err 02 I've been getting.

Thank you everyone for reading such a long post and sorry in case my English didn't make much sense at times.

reddeercity

What's your nightly build date ?

#1, reformat card with computer (low level) check for card errors with a disk utility
then reinstall ML with the latest nightly build or the build date you prefer .

Tip I do : In a USB 3.0 CF card reader with a PC I right click on card and do a defrag.
I do every time I copy files off the card, I've notice that there always 15-20 % fragmented 
and this will cause card performance loss & or data corruption .
All my CF cards are Lexar 1066x or 1000x , I use just a generic USB 3.0 reader in 3 years
I had only one card go down out of 4 and it was the most heavy used/abused card ,
as I use it to test ml nighty builds when raw video was just getting stable so there was many lockups and crashes .

#2 Post a screen shot of the LCD screen from the camera
Do you have userguide#movie_restart

#3 the pop is normal with ML , I use a Rhodes Video Mic on my 5D2 and I get the same thing .
I think it has something to do with ML disabling the Automatic Gain Control (AGC)

Walter Schulz

No offense but defragmenting a flash device for better data transfer sounds like voodoo to me. Any hard data on this?

reddeercity


dav_ma

Thanks Red Deer City for the reply.

The latest night build I installed is the Nightly.2015Dec20.5D2212, but I was having such problems even before that.

1. Thanks for the tip. Should I uninstall ML before formatting the card? Does it matter?

2. I found the indicator I was talking about in the camera's instruction manual, I'm linking a scan. Apparently it's an indicator signalling that the card speed is not fast enough. Something must be wrong, since it appears while shooting standard h264 video (not RAW) and both with the 800x and the 1066x Lexars I own. After the indicator appears, video stops recording.

3. I see, thanks for clearing that out for me.

axelcine

+1, Walter.

Don't defrag flash cards, might shorten their life. Defrag is good for keeping harddisks and other media with constantly changing data up-to-date. If you fill your CF or SD, back up to computer, preferably on a daily basis, and format card for the next photo journey.

When you format your card with ML, ML makes sure, that is isn't wiped out during the format. It'll still be there after the format. Genious devs!
EOS RP, 5dIII.113/Batt.grip, 5dIII.123, 700d/Batt.Grip/VF4 viewfinder + a truckload of new and older Canon L, Sigma and Tamron glass

Walter Schulz

AFAIK ML will load files into cam's memory before format takes place and those files will be restored from cam's memory to card after.

And flash memory is doing some other thing very different compared to conventional hard drives with discs:
Flash memory controllers do "wear leveling" and switching a single cell's content requires an erase operation of a "row" of data cells where this cell is located before data can be written to this "row". Therefore data rate is indeed dependent upon previous operations and slower for "unclean" rows. But I don't know if a "low level format" is actually erasing (= write zeros to) all flash cells.

axelcine

Never did a low level, not even with my sd's for my beloved 700d for 2+ years, and the cards work without problems. The CF's for my 5D3's are brand new, so I'm completely without experience. But... admit that the preserve-ML-during-format is a genious way to play hide-and-seek!

Back to the main issue: It is my belief also from reading through the ML threads, that card problems occur very seldom with ML, and I would think, not more than card problems occur in cams without ML.

Audio: My best advice is to disable automatic gain control in Canon menu. For experienced audio people agc is a pain in the... errr where we sit. Always disabled it with my 700D and never a single audio problem when using ext mikes. Set audio input to manual, still in Canon menu, about 2/3rds from top or maybe a little higher, and monitor the audio bars, ML provides for the wondering world to look at... avoid passing -12db. Adjust audio more precisely in post.

The initial pop was mentioned in the -outdated - ML 203 User Guide as far as I remember and is simply cut away or dampened in post.
EOS RP, 5dIII.113/Batt.grip, 5dIII.123, 700d/Batt.Grip/VF4 viewfinder + a truckload of new and older Canon L, Sigma and Tamron glass

reddeercity

What do think SSD Trim support is on Mac & Windows is for ?

http://solid-state-drive-review.toptenreviews.com/what-is-trim-support.html

QuoteThis flash memory is created up of small "pages" and groups of pages are called "blocks." When you tell your computer to delete a page on the solid-state drive the page isn't actually deleted - it is merely marked for deletion. This is because data can only be deleted in blocks. You cannot delete individual pages on an SSD. Later on, when you tell your computer that you need the space, the pages marked for deletion are grouped into a block and the whole block is wiped clean. This process slows down the solid-state drive when it is writing.
QuoteThat is why solid-state drives slow down while writing after prolonged use. They have to clean the files marked for deletion before they can be written on, and erasing takes time. This can cause serious delays, depending on how much data you're trying to save and how much needs to be deleted. Luckily, TRIM alleviates this problem and is supported on many of the SSDs and operating systems made today.

QuoteA TRIM command enables your operating system to find the marked pages before you need them and wipe them clean. Cleaning these data pages beforehand saves you time when you need to write on the data pages again. It's like you have your own recycling guy next to your desk, recycling the pieces of paper as they come.

What defrag is doing , re-order the blocks Specially after deleting  50GB , written @ 80MB/s from the 5D2 .
So the prolonged sequential write speed can be maintain at its highest level specially on the 5D2 with CD cards .
I Can Tell you 100% ,  it's the difference between continuous & non continuous recording @ the max. frame size raw ( 1:1-1880x1058 - 75.5MB/s-3xcrop 2048x930_24p_78MB/s)
mlv (1872x936-72MB/s_3xcrop 2048x872_24p(79.9MB/s)+ Audio & HDMI .

I have done excessive testing over the last 3 years , and I have concluded it dose help.
When I'm doing run & gun video shooting (news , events , docs , etc...) , I have to know that I will not Drop any frames.
@1872x936 with hdmi recorder capturing.
Any how give it a Honest try , work the "Cf Cards" hard see if it helps ,
but if you have a 5D3 this Would Not be a issue as the write speed is 95-110MB/s
On the 5D2 you need to squeeze every last bit or write speed out of her  so you can get almost near Full-HD size.

My 2 cents wrorth  ;)

each to there own thou

dav_ma

Thanks everyone for joining in. I think the when Red Deer City advised me to format the cards, he meant a computer format, not an in-camera format that ML would survive. That's why I was asking about uninstalling ML first.

Anyway, I'm aware that CF card problems are generally rare, but I've had a few (a 32 gb Lexar 800x failed and got it replaced) so I have to take that into account and surely the issues I've been experiencing since I started using Magic Lantern were not present before.

It seems like the image I posted before did not really work. Let's try again:


The fact that I'm getting that indicator means that the cards are not working properly, since I am sure they're all fast enough for video work on the 5D.

Walter Schulz

Quote from: reddeercity on January 24, 2016, 02:49:49 AM
My 2 cents wrorth  ;)

Thanks! Have contacted Komputerbay support. Waiting for some info before going to do test runs. Do you have experience with "sanitize" command or other methods/tools designed for zero-ing card cells?

reddeercity

Quote from: Walter Schulz on January 25, 2016, 12:31:26 AM
Thanks! Have contacted Komputerbay support. Waiting for some info before going to do test runs. Do you have experience with "sanitize" command or other methods/tools designed for zero-ing card cells?
My pleasure Walter ,I just use the Windows format tool right click on drive/CF card format & un-check "quick format" box
if the card is over 32GB then I use a free software from HP to format USB flack drives over 32GB-256GB to Fat32
SP27608_hp usb disk storage format tool_v2.1.8

Be on that , like I said I like to do a defrag after deleting raw video file on CF card (on windows7)
But I will note , that when I delete files of the cf card in cam it seems to be less fragmented them from card reader .
could be just a weird coincidences .

*Speaking of weird* Time to watch the new Xfiles  :D :D Hope it's as great as it was back in the '90s  8)

reddeercity

@dav_ma , I would say you have a card problem or a controller issue , I have only seen  it a few times over the last 5 years with my 5D2
and it was some slow CF card's (Sandisk 16 & 32 GB 600X) .
By chance , do you have H264 enabled ? and if do at what rate do you have it set to ?
1.0x CBR , 2.0X CBR ,  3.0X CBR , CBR stand for Constant Bite Rate.
Normally if I shot H264 ( not too likely :P :P) with my Lexar1000x 32or 64GB card
I never go over 2.3X CBR equal to about 75-80Mb/s even up to 95Mb/s h264.mov in Cinestyle picture profile

dav_ma

Thanks again Red Deer City. I do not have h264 enabled, so the rate I film is standard 1.0x CBR

I think the card is faulty, but what do you mean by "controller issue"? What controller?

Do you often shoot RAW with the 5dmII?

reddeercity

Quote from: dav_ma on January 31, 2016, 10:57:04 AM
I think the card is faulty, but what do you mean by "controller issue"? What controller?
CF Card controller ( Bad Card)
Quote from: dav_ma on January 31, 2016, 10:57:04 AM
Do you often shoot RAW with the 5dmII?

That's All I do ,  shoot Raw MLV can't remember when I used H264 Last  ::)
maybe 4 years ago , Really !
90% of what I shoot if for professorial purposes (news, mini doc, indie movie's etc.. )
So about every 4-7 weeks I'm shooting


dav_ma

Thank you, I must've misread, I thought you were talking about some other controller's fault.

How do you manage with aliasing when shooting RAW? Do you use a VAF filter?

reddeercity

Quote from: dav_ma on February 03, 2016, 10:54:53 PM
Do you use a VAF filter?
No , I find there is no need , kills the sharpness make the image too soft for my liking
(Some would disagree with me)

Quote from: dav_ma on February 03, 2016, 10:54:53 PM
How do you manage with aliasing when shooting RAW?
Very easy It's "best practices" and lens .
Let me explain , I shoot in a little different style then most being I knowing there is a problem with aliasing.
1: Never shoot angler object/building/structure from a long distances (if you do keep within 10 meters) in 1:1 mode .
Unless you are in 3X crop mode where there is no aliasing (uses every line , but still has pixel binding)
Being in Crop mode with the 5D2 your lens focal length changes x3 e.g. 50mm-->150mm
2: I use mainly primes lens , depending on the subject etc....  I use zoom & primes Canon "L" glass
2.8f 24-70 (main lens) 2.8f100mm macro(Go to Lens) 2.8f 70-200mm and Sigma Primes (50mm 1.4f) (my favorite lens)
I keep the cam at either 100 ISO or 400 ISO with Fader (Variable ND)
Close down the aperture ,  outside work I run around f8 with ND fader & inside studio like conditions  f2.0 to f4.5 etc... I think you get the picture ? right
Control the light or luminescence to the image and that will help with moiré & aliasing , there many ticks to minimize or almost eliminate moiré & aliasing
without having to buy extra equipment . The more things you put in font of the senor reduces & degrade  the image and can cause aberration's etc... .

Other my have there own way of dealing with moiré & aliasing , but this is my approach to that issue  .
Hope this helps