PLEASE HELP! Raw Video Noise Problems at all ISO's

[calebdescognets]

Hey everyone,

   I'm really in need of some expert advice and help on this one.

  I've been experimenting with raw video on my MK3 for a while now and while the latitude is awesome I seem to always end up having way more noise in my raw video than everyone else's I'm seeing online.  In fact I've done extensive research on this subject and it seems that no one else is having this much of an issue with noise in their raw video as I am and I'm starting to pull my hair out over it.  I've made a few short edits with Raw but I'm not getting the results I'm after; mostly because of my noise issues (ex. Note shot at 00:55)

https://vimeo.com/128858902

   I've tried almost every post process out there for conversion and lossless compression. RawMagic Lite is usually my go-to to convert my .RAW files to DNG's but I've tried MLVMystic and a few others with virtually no difference.  The process I first used when experimenting with Raw Video was RawMagic->DNG's, Lightroom->TIFFS, Quicktime 7->ProRes 422 and then editing in FCPX.  That's the process I used in the vimeo link above.

   Recently, I started trying to go straight from my DNG's to Resolve so that I can export proxies to edit; thinking that skipping a few compression steps along the way would help my cause (using this tutorial: http://nofilmschool.com/2013/09/tutorial-canon-5d-mark-iii-magic-lantern-raw-offline-online).  Still, no difference in the amount of noise in my raw clips.  While in Resolve playing back my DNG sequences in real time I can see my waveform buzzing from all the noise in the clip even when my ISO is at 100 -0.3EV (so 80).  THIS IS NOT COOL.  WHAT THE FLIPPING F*CK AM I MISSING HERE?!?!?!

My 5D Mark III settings are as follows (Using 32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 160 mb/s and technicolor cinestyle profile)
Canon Menu:
ALO OFF
HTP OFF
24fps 1920 ALL-I
Image Q. RAW
Long exp. Noise Red. OFF
High ISO NR OFF

ML Menu:
Modules ON: file_man, mlv_play, mlv_re, mlv_snd, Raw_rec
Global Draw: Liveview
RAW video: ON 1920x1080
Movie Tweaks OFF

Below is a video showing you what I'm talking about (RawMagic Lite-->DNGs, DaVinci--> Prores 422 HQ (Decode Q. FullRes, Decode Using Clip, Color space Rec.709)
Crops are 400% shot with the Canon 24-70 f2.8L
Notice that even with plenty of available light I'm still getting quite a bit of noise in the shadows

Specifics of Shots:
Shot 1:
F4  1/50th  ISO 100 -0.3EV = 80

Shot 2:
Same as Shot 1

Shot 3:
F4.5  1/50th  ISO 800 -.03EV = 640

Shot 4:
F3.2  1/50th  ISO 100 -0.3EV = 80

Shot 5:
F4.5  1/50th  ISO 100 -0.3EV = 80

Shot 6:
F14  1/50th  ISO 100 -0.3EV = 80

https://vimeo.com/135203407


PLEASE, Anyone with any ideas please let me know.  If you need more info about my settings please ask.  I've tried to be as thorough as I can.

Thank you all in advance!!!

[Danne]

It, s known that canon cameras delivers noisy shadows. If overexposing your shots providing more light in shadow areas you can significally reduce noise. This usually means overexposing highlights which you partly can pull back in post.
Try overexposing the same shots by maybe two steps. That way you might even be able to film using iso 1600.

[mvejerslev]

Does your DNGs contain EXIF data? If so, try the lightroom or Camera Raw approach again, but use default noise reduction (or L+25 C=25).

[calebdescognets]

It, s known that canon cameras delivers noisy shadows. If overexposing your shots providing more light in shadow areas you can significally reduce noise. This usually means overexposing highlights which you partly can pull back in post.
Try overexposing the same shots by maybe two steps. That way you might even be able to film using iso 1600.

I understand to get a greater signal to noise ratio you're supposed to expose to the right as far as you can without slipping highlights but doesn't that mean that if you're shooting anywhere inside without sufficient light you'll be pushing your iso way up when trying to expose to the right meaning you'll be introducing more noise as a result of a higher iso?  I guess my question would be where is that sweet spot? Once you hit iso 3200 ML shows it in orange, I'm guessing meaning that you'll be adding more noise to the image as a result.

I'm just frustrated when I see other ML Raw videos shot in the dark or dark conditions and it looks crisp and noise-free.
Like this:

https://vimeo.com/100295091

[dmilligan]

Higher ISOs have less noise (per photoelectron) than lower ones. Otherwise they would be pointless. Digital ISO is also pointless for raw video.

http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/iso/

[KelvinK]

Well, you shouldn't be frustrated that much. Noise free shots you link used smart noise reduction (not ACR, it sucks for dark shots). Every canon RAW camera has noise - payment for details and colors, so using NR is a must or overexpose by at least 1 stop.

[Levas]

I don't think the noise is that much 
But I'm wondering how much do you need to change the exposure in lightroom or resolve ? 1 stop, 2 stops ?
And do you crush the blacks after that or are they much lifted in post.
Maybe that is what you want, crush the blacks, noise free deep dark shadows 

[Kharak]

I can not see this noise you talk of because of the vimeo compression, so the noise can't be that bad.

The MK III has an extremely clean image unless you really go crazy with the settings and under expose and what not.

I also noticed that you write you are running mlv_rec and raw_rec module together... This just increases the chances for your camera to crash. mlv_rec and raw_rec should not be used together. Use either one of them. But if you choose to use raw_rec then you might aswell disable the mlv_snd module as raw_rec does not record sound..

You had issues with recording times I read on the vimeo page of your video, if you don't have a fast enough CF card and you want to increase recording time with the price of no sound, then raw_rec is your friend. It has higher write speeds because of the lack of metadata embedded in the raw files and ofcourse no sound being recorded either. For slow motion I usually switch to raw_rec and disable global draw to increase the recording times as much as possible, though it might only be 1-2 seconds more of recording, but recorded at higher frame rates those 1-2 secs can become 2.5-5 more seconds of slow motion. Also if I need the slow mo shot to be longer I put the resolution down from 1920 to 1856 just to squeeze a little more recording.

But back to your noise issue, it is somewhere in the pipeline of your workflow that you are introducing noise, be it compression artifacts or just noise-noise.. I don't know what your struggle is, but daylight shots should not have any visible noise when shot with raw

EDIT: Disclaimer:

I always use ACR with my raw footage because in my opinion ACR with its debayering delivers the cleanest image.. But it is tough on your system, you need a powerful CPU to get through it.