Author Topic: Why I can´t increase resolution  (Read 4299 times)

daniel@danielchamorro.com

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Why I can´t increase resolution
« on: July 08, 2015, 05:28:28 PM »
Hi

I have 5D MII, and last Magic Latern nightly build. Iif you make the hack more and more difficult to shoot like putting overlays, or sound, more frames per second, or increase the space of information in the sensor to get, I see you start to need faster and faster card to achieve the constant ratio of frames.

BUT

If I just want to get a 2.35 panoramic ratio at 23,976 I see that the card demands start to decrease because I just lost a lot of information on the top and down the frame and also the frame rate is less, so magic lantern just ask me from 50 to 65 Mb of speed, but I have a 90Mb faster card so I still would have a little gap at least until 70 or 75 that I think is the limit of 5D mark II to INCREASE RESOLUTION.

BUT

The maximun magic lantern let me to increase is up to 1856x790 but I`m sure that the system would be able of getting better resolution in this frame rate and widescreen option or if not, getting rid of the sound and getting externally. So, what do you think? Am I crazy? Where I could ask for this feature of getting able at least to get 1920x1080p ? Actually you can get this resolution in 3x CROP MODE so Why not?


THANKS!!!  :)

Walter Schulz

  • Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7581
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2015, 05:55:23 PM »
I'm not sure if I got your intentions correctly but I'm answering anyway:

Uncropped raw modes grab liveview feed in it's "native" resolution. Which is sensor vertical pixel count divided by three. Canon uses line skipping in all their EOS cams (exceptions: 5D3 and - unconfirmed - 7D2) and only every third line is used. So you cannot get 1920x1080 uncropped. The only ML enabled cam doing native 1080p is 5D3 because sensor pixels just fit 1920x3 and 1080x3.

daniel@danielchamorro.com

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2015, 06:06:03 PM »
I see. I start to understand. So, why 5d MII can get it in crop mode and not in normal mode? in this case can´t you arrange a crop mode that doesn´t crop so much? like some inches, so can be usable to angular shots too even if we loose some information?

Thanks!!

Walter Schulz

  • Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7581
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2015, 06:11:32 PM »
Crop mode is not using line skipping but every line in selected frame. You cannot get anything in between. It's either full sensor size with skipping or a subframe with every line used. No option for every second or 1,5 or else. It's just not there (or not discovered by devs yet which means pretty much the same for us).
The only thing coming close is "full resolution silent pics" (FRSP) which is using every pixel but is just too slow for anything else than timelapse.

daniel@danielchamorro.com

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2015, 06:21:21 PM »
Thanks so I guess I will have to change the camera if I want more resolution. Magic lantern RAW anyway is a huge step forward but I don´t know how to use it in a real shooting with actors because you shoot and you want to check the take and it can´t be seen with sound or anything but black and white jumping footage. And if you say to me to buy a atomos ninja or shoogun, this is almost as expensive as getting a new camera and selling the 5D so I´m not going to do it. Any alternative to check footage like fast in the shooting, I mean with sound in sync?

Thanks

DeafEyeJedi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3397
  • 5D3 | M1 | 7D | 70D | SL1 | M2 | 50D
Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2015, 01:48:51 AM »
Perhaps you can have a set stack of Fast CF cards and after each one of them gets filled -- you or an IT standing by may then check the footage with MLRawViewer right away while offloading and it evens works really well when using a fast card reader like USB 3.0 in order to have a smooth playback otherwise.

Or use MLVFS if you want to export straight to ProRes4444HQ via AE CC (smart import 2).

Jm2c.
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

daniel@danielchamorro.com

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2015, 09:56:07 AM »
Thanks!

I bought actually a USB 3.0 reader to actually did that but sometimes the audio is out of sync. But I guess is the best option now.

Thanks

DeafEyeJedi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3397
  • 5D3 | M1 | 7D | 70D | SL1 | M2 | 50D
Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2015, 06:36:23 PM »
Is the audio still out of sync when using other converters such as MLVFS? I no longer own the 5D2 and can't really verify anything other than what I suggested...

Are you using FPS override at all?
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

Milk and Coffee

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2020, 09:29:00 PM »
Crop mode is not using line skipping but every line in selected frame. You cannot get anything in between. It's either full sensor size with skipping or a subframe with every line used. No option for every second or 1,5 or else. It's just not there (or not discovered by devs yet which means pretty much the same for us).
The only thing coming close is "full resolution silent pics" (FRSP) which is using every pixel but is just too slow for anything else than timelapse.

To confirm, can the 5DMKII get 1880px wide/1.0x crop?
Gear: Canon 5D Mark II

Kharak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2020, 09:37:56 PM »
The Magic Lantern terminology can be hard for a newcomer, but when you are trying to ask questions. It helps a lot if you use more familiar terminology. 1.0 x crop, do you mean a 1:1 ratio of the sensor? or entire sensor the full frame, width and height?
once you go raw you never go back

Walter Schulz

  • Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7581
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2020, 10:23:12 PM »
To confirm, can the 5DMKII get 1880px wide/1.0x crop?

May I suggest to look it up for yourself? Prefs tab -> Config files -> Restore ML defaults -> Restart -> Modules tab -> Load mlv_rec.mo or mlv_lite.mo -> Restart -> Movie tab -> Enable RAW by pressing SET button for the menu item of the module you loaded and the resolution you get is the one Canon uses to generate 1080p output.

Milk and Coffee

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2020, 01:43:03 AM »
The Magic Lantern terminology can be hard for a newcomer, but when you are trying to ask questions. It helps a lot if you use more familiar terminology. 1.0 x crop, do you mean a 1:1 ratio of the sensor? or entire sensor the full frame, width and height?

By "1.0x Crop" I mean entire width of the sensor.

I am just curious if the 5DMKII is capable of 1880px width resolution, as the OP mentioned they can only get 1856px wide as a maximum resolution. (1856px wide on the 5DMKII is a 1.01x crop of the full width of the sensor. TECHNICALLY not full width. 1880px wide [1.0x,] would be full width.)

Sorry for the confusion!

@Walter Schulz , I am inquiring about the 5DMKII, because I am looking to buy one. I currently only have a 5DMKIII on loan. I am trying to keep up as best I can :)
Gear: Canon 5D Mark II

yourboylloyd

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 298
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2020, 03:05:56 AM »
1856px wide on the 5DMKII is a 1.01x crop of the full width of the sensor. TECHNICALLY not full width

Bump.

I've actually have always been curious about that too. I always wondered why the number was 1856 instead of 1872 (for the full width of 5616px/3). I looked around in the forums for that but I could never find it. I never really cared enough though.
Join the ML discord! https://discord.gg/H7h6rfq

reddeercity

  • Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2267
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2020, 09:07:51 AM »
see explanation here https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=24998.msg227047#msg227047
The reason the 5D2 records 1856 instead of 1880 is because in the code of  mlv_rec.c  there a restriction .
In the old code base there was a speed penalty on d5/5D3 cameras when coping from the EDMAC
( where the image buffer is then get copied to the store device) when the resolutions was not in a factor of 32pixel .
The d4/5D2 did not have this same speed penalty (maybe because of the difference between the d4 "FAT32" & d5 exFAT)

5D2: 1880/32=58.75 -- not a factor of 32
5D2: 1856/32=58
5D3: 1920/32=60

But in mlv_lite (not mlv_rec) , a1ex add extra code to make a exception for the 5D2 to record 1880 , but it does not work the best & there's no sound available .
I've been looking at maybe add this code to mlv_rec in the future , if time permits .

Skinny

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2020, 11:09:57 AM »
I sometimes use this build with 5D2: magiclantern-raw_video_10bit_12bit.2019Mar24.5D2212
it's in experiments - 10/12 bit raw video

and it has 1880 resolution. what drawbacks does it have? I think it works well, it has 10/12 bits, you can rewiev the footage, delete it, record again... which is very important for someone with 16gb cf card :D

Levas

  • Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1668
  • 6d - Nightly build user
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2020, 11:24:09 AM »
Just curious, but 1880 should technically be 8 pixels too much, 1872 pixels should be available.
So if you look real close, pixel peeping, you probably detect a very small border on the left or right, which exists out 8 pixels wide black border.

Skinny

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2020, 02:02:07 PM »
Yeah, they are on the right side of the screen... I didn't even notice them :) I used a warp stabilizer on almost everything that was shot with this build so far, and it cuts the picture a bit. Since most stabilization (hand shake, etc.) occurs vertically, the side edges are cut off and never enter the frame. Therefore, I didn't notice them..

This is interesting by the way, since it could make sense to increase the vertical resolution, to provide a margin for stabilization

Levas

  • Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1668
  • 6d - Nightly build user
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2020, 02:16:10 PM »
This is interesting by the way, since it could make sense to increase the vertical resolution, to provide a margin for stabilization

Yep, if you're planning to stabilize in post, you could consider to make use of the whole sensor which is 3:2 aspect ratio (3:2 is selectable in raw video menu).

Milk and Coffee

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2020, 04:53:46 PM »
Does the 5D3 and 6D have this "black bar" issue? Is it just the 5D2?
Gear: Canon 5D Mark II

masc

  • Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1687
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2020, 04:57:49 PM »
You don't have a black bar issue on 5D2 when using the standard nightly build. (At least I haven't.)
5D3.113 | EOSM.202

Milk and Coffee

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2020, 07:41:03 PM »
Technically speaking, ALL canon (or general CMOS sensor) cameras have black/covered pixels right? Are these black/covered pixels the ones referred to when listing the "Actual" and "Effective" pixels on camera store websites?
Gear: Canon 5D Mark II

Milk and Coffee

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2020, 08:10:56 PM »
Just curious, but 1880 should technically be 8 pixels too much, 1872 pixels should be available.
So if you look real close, pixel peeping, you probably detect a very small border on the left or right, which exists out 8 pixels wide black border.

Just did a test. 5D2, 10/12bit build

Via MLV_lite, at 1880, I did a shot of blue sky, wide open 50mm lens, focused as close as I could. No black borders for me anywhere!
Original DNG here https://www.mediafire.com/view/3e3l87lr0akvjkh/M27-1926_000080.dng/file

And then some pixel peeping screenshots of the sky linked below.  :)
Top left: https://www.mediafire.com/view/5pui0n2fmvzn1vq/Screen_Shot_2020-06-28_at_11.52.16_AM.png/file
Bottom left: https://www.mediafire.com/view/f6m3hciq32s6gsp/Screen_Shot_2020-06-28_at_11.52.05_AM.png/file
Top right: https://www.mediafire.com/view/3woavny8mjs45k9/Screen_Shot_2020-06-28_at_11.51.44_AM.png/file
Bottom right: https://www.mediafire.com/view/jhs201hbgpiy3bg/Screen_Shot_2020-06-28_at_11.51.54_AM.png/file
Gear: Canon 5D Mark II

Skinny

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2020, 03:00:29 PM »
Hmm.... But I saw black border...

So i did some tests, found that you won't get black border with 24 (23.976) fps, but will get it if push fps to max, 31.055..

Milk and Coffee

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2020, 10:10:30 PM »
Did you see black borders in my DNG? Or you mean in your own files?
Gear: Canon 5D Mark II

Skinny

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: Why I can´t increase resolution
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2020, 09:24:07 AM »
I mean in my files, your dng is ok.. I'm going to test other FPS settings today, will attach DNG files later

ok.. so,
29.97 fps and below is completely normal, only 31 fps gets black border. soooo just stay away from 31 and everything will be fine. cool.

here are some DNGs:
frame from a 24 fps sequence, no black border
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vt9ycbgejygkbit/M04-1747%2024fps.dng?dl=0

frame shot with 31 fps, black border is present
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g1v86rbj9j6t9pe/M04-1752%2031fps.dng?dl=0