Heavy vertical banding Noise removal? ACR vs Neat Video or both etc.

[Andy600]

@Danne - I'm not sure I can simplify it further 

Is there something specific that you are trying to do?

[Danne]

It,s totally fine.
Actually. I,m very interested in learning to create linear to log luts. 1d lut and how to achieve logs for certain purposes and such. To do creative 3d luts in Davinci resolve is one thing but I was thinking more in technical lut terms? What tools is needed and so on.

[Terry Tibbs]

Nice to see this thread has sparked off something that might be of use to someone else

This is as good as I've managed with ACR, a Film Convert LUT and a touch of Neat Video. Added some grain back in with Film Convert - seemed to make it look less plastic... Not sure if the level of noise is acceptable or not? Feel free to take a look anyone. Oh, and yes I didn't have a focus puller or DP, so I did it by hand on the lens, just guessing. Not ideal, I know. The rest of the shoot was done very professionally lol.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/drxb54

Oddly, the footage appeared sped up when I imported it so I slowed it 80% and it seems better. Project frame rate was set to 30 fps and I shot at 25, so I thought it was the reason, but it turns out even after switching to 25 it still looked to fast. I'm not sure if I was imagining it or not. He just seemed to waddle into the shot too fast...

EDIT: Might try again with no sharpening at all in ACR before AE

[Terry Tibbs]

Interestingly (for me anyway ) when I switch to Cinelog C Rec709 output in Open ColourIO in AE much of the noise disappears. I know a lot of that is because the contrast is higher, but it really looks much cleaner too. (And to my eyes it actually looks pretty similar to how it does when I have the Film Convert LUT on with some colour differences) Wondering if I can export that way, but guessing not.

In ACR I have decided to import again with no sharpening at all but just increase to clarity. Maybe it'll be a bit cleaner now.

Sorry if I am boring you all with this. I have been working on this film for nearly a year and it is destroying me lol. 

[Andy600]

@Terry Tibbs - the noise is still there but pushed much lower - this is normal.

If you like the look of Cinelog Rec709 (or Rec709 FM - the one I would go for personally as it has more film-like saturation and highlight rolloff) you could try it with Film Convert's sRGB default input. It might be a better fit.

[Andy600]

@Danne - a spreadsheet is really all you need for the calculations and a text editor for creating the lut file.

You can create any simple or complex log curve from a row of input values and build the lut manually by duplicating the resulting columns to create one for each RGB channel, then copy/paste the 3 columns into a text file (named to whatever suffix the luts are named i.e. .cube) with the appropriate lut header (you can copy one from an existing lut). Just make sure the data conforms properly (by swapping tabs spaces to spaces etc). The input values may be integers and must be scaled to 0.0 - 1.0 nominal range before applying a log formula for most lut formats, although some lut formats like Resolve 1D input luts use integers.

Dan Newman from GoPro posted a very simple but useful spreadsheet example of the calculations behind GoPro Protune a while back. The original Dropbox link is dead but I've reuploaded it for you:

http://we.tl/waYmG6Fw5p

You should easily get a grasp of the basics from this and from there you can look at developing/trying different formulas, setting black and white levels, gamma, offsets etc etc

[Danne]

Just what I need. Big thanks!

[DeafEyeJedi]

So glad that @Terry Tibbs sparked this wonderful thread filled with valuable pointers as well as important questions being answered promptly!

Just looked at your recent sample and you have definitely came a long way in matter of days which is remarkable and keep up the great work! Also agreed w @Andy600 that you should go for Cinelog_Rec709_FM to get that film like saturation look along with a nice highlight rolloff.

You can never bored any of us (well at least for me). So tell me, Terry, would you rather use NeatVideo than trying to get rid of noise manually via ACR as you were trying to previously?

Also thanks to @Andy600 for providing the perfect link to get @Danne up to speed with the process of creating our own 1D LUT, etc!

[Terry Tibbs]

@DeafEyeJedi @Andy

Hey!

Do you guys mean Cinelog Rec709 in OpencolourIO? I'm guessing you do. At the moment my output in OpenColourIO is set to Cinelog-C.

Not sure if it's that or an LUT you're talking about. I'm using Film Convert for the LUT as far as I know. Having said that I do see there's a bank of LUTs with my download from the Cinelog Website so I'll certainly have a look.

@Andy if it's the OpenColourIO setting you're referring to, I could try it with the Film Convert SRBG setting, but ultimately it has to match the footage with the C300 I have. The setting in Film Convert I'mnusing for that is FJH160s Pro. Maybe I could adjust the colours if the tones match.

Re: Noise, I'm not much of an expert at noise removal with either program when it comes to video. In photography I tend to get exposure right, but when I don't I use Noise Ninja. Sometimes ACR is good for colour noise I have noticed when shooting weddings, but I only really know the most basic of settings and in photography have only ever pushed the luminance to 20 or so. Neat Video is a bit over my head tbh. But like most things, if you have the will to learn you will learn.

I had another go, I'll leave a link. No worries if you can't be bothered to download lol. I've been on this one clip all day. I've managed to get it a little cleaner but the blacks look like they could come down a bit. The thing is, if I put more than one or two effects on in Premiere I get a hideous banding effect around the car headlight flare and other places that doesn't go away with rendering or exporting.

I know from photography that editing colour heavily in anything under 16 bit causes a lot of that sort of thing, so I'm guessing this is the case in Premiere, and I need to guess the black point in ACR before AE. Here's my progress anyway:

https://www.sendspace.com/file/o9q5c3

These are the settings I used in ACR:



I have no idea if it's best, but I decided to favour less noise over sharpness, and didn't sharpen at all, but pushed the clarity to +60. Next go round I'll try and get it like this but adjust the blacks in ACR as I import to AE. It takes about 20 mins to render and export this clip each time lol.

Once again, thankyou for your help guys. I literally have no one else to help me on this and I've been through hell to get where I am with this film. At least I know how to shoot and edit 5D RAW now! (nearly) 

[Andy600]

@Terry Tibbs - emailed you some things to try

[Terry Tibbs]

  Thankyou x 1000

[Terry Tibbs]

God, just looking at the last link I posted. It's worse than the first. That's what happens when you stare at a screen all day without a break hah!

[Terry Tibbs]

Better now I think. And a better colour match for the C300 footage. I found Neat Video worked better than ACR.

Not perfect but usable.

I think?

https://www.sendspace.com/file/m2xhzs

[The Director]

use "vertical banding fix" in raw2cdng 1.7.4
http://www.phreekz.de/wordpress/2014/04/magiclantern-raw2cdng-1-5-0/

[Terry Tibbs]

Ah yes. I saw that setting. Wasn't sure whether or not to use.  I can't find any tutorials anywhere on the latest version. I got some better results on the most recent version I did. I don't know if I actually tried that setting yet...

[DeafEyeJedi]

@Terry Tibbs:

Do you reckon that Neat Video actually does a better job than ACR regarding Noise/Sharpening?

I'm considering giving their product a shot. Been hesitating to buy this for years but kept convincing myself that ACR does just as well if not better?

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

[Terry Tibbs]

@DeafEyeJedi

Hey man. Hmm well given my current experience and recent tests I'd actually say that Neat Video does a better job with certain techniques. I wouldn't say I'm fully qualified to answer that question with any conviction, but that's the way it's looking to me at the moment....

[Frank7D]

Neat Video is good (I use it in certain situations) but it is sloooooow.
Just another factor to consider.