Author Topic: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI  (Read 18136 times)

DeafEyeJedi

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Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« on: June 08, 2015, 09:48:17 AM »
Hello all-

I'm literally on the fence between these two lenses -- any one out there have any suggestions/oppositions from experience of their own?

I found good deals on both of them in used condition online (85 for $175 & 105 for $140) and I'm leaning towards more to the 85 f2 AI-S...

Thoughts?

p.s. Yes, I use these glass to shoot RAW with 5D3 and such... so much fun!
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nikfreak

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2015, 04:38:45 PM »
Get that 105 if it suits your needs in terms of focal range. Be sure that it's the PC one (Gaussian Type not Sonnar). I wouldn't bother with the 85! Those Nikkors are built like a tank. Got myself a Nippon Kogaku 50 f2 and a 105 (Sonnar type AI'd) and shot my best pictures with that while I had Nikon bodies. The 105 and also the 50 f2 are one of the best. Check also Bjørn Rørslett's page for his personal "best-of-the-best" list:

http://www.naturfotograf.com/bestof.html
http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_short.html (scroll down + read about the PC one)

Keep in mind you could get some used (+probably limited warranty) 100f2 usm or 100f2.8 usm macro (w/o is) fr some lil' money added onto that nikkors (nippon's :-) )
Holding a Nippon Kogaku and feeling the built might let you get the "gear acquisition syndrome". Having Nippon Kogakus in hand will let you laugh about every lens produced in the last decades
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DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2015, 06:29:59 PM »
Interesting thoughts... I guess what got me leaning towards the 85 was the half stop quicker (although I suspect theres not much differences between f2 and f2.5 -- lol) anyway so just do be sure if this is the PC version or at least similar to -- check out this link if you have time: http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pho/5024217826.html

After researching online and apparently the AS and AI-S versions are also built similar to the PC versions in terms of using Gaussian type: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/2239873  ( however, correct me if I'm wrong though. )

Yes, @nikfreak, I agree with you about getting myself a used 100f2 or 100 f2.8 for a little more $$ -- for some reason with these few old Nikkors that I own are definitely giving me the G.A.S. feeling when holding them in my hand -- so ADDICTING! 8)

Thanks again for your much appreciative feedback/suggestion!

p.s. I'm finally off today from work and will test thoroughly with latest alpha 70D.111B. Sorry for the delay!  8)
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nikfreak

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2015, 07:41:50 PM »
Yes the one you linked is built after 1977 and has some rubber ring. That's also built like a tank but I would recommend you the more classic and older "PC Auto" one. For Nikon glass always be sure to look also at serial nummer collection here:

http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html

Scroll down and look at line starting with "C   105/2.5 P·C Auto" having serial number from 500038 - 571504. The reason I recommend that "PC" one is that it's really built like a tank compared to the one linked by you and has no rubber. Versions before that ["P"-only] have no multicoating and might have problems with flare. Also the PC one I am talking about has f32. Might not be of real importance but I just wanted to point it out.

Check the pics here http://www.destoutz.ch/lens_105mm_f2.5_526586.html to get the "PC" / "P" looking design.

The one you linked looks too much used. Get a good one to be able to sell it later. All 105 f2.5's after 1971 are superb btw but I wouldn't also hesitate to buy an earlier Sonnar-Type if it's only 50 bucks cause they are superb too and will last forever...

Btw don't let you fool by AI / pre-AI / AIS etc. Nikon has the same mount since 1959 and was selling AI conversion kits for non-ai / pre-AI lenses. Most people make it a 5 min DIY without buying a conversion kit. You just would have to remove some screws but I guess you shouldn't even be in need to do some DIY if you have the right nikon2canon adapter already. To be safe just google for the nonAI / pre-Ai topic. Really easy to do yourself. See picture below. My beloved 50 f2 non-Ai Nikkor-H. I did the AI conversion myself but I guess using on canon you wouldn't need to do this but i can't guarantuee cause I never tried my beloved fifty yet on 70D so you would need to check it yourself by googling before mounting anything to your body to avoid a risk of damaging your mirror etc..:



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DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2015, 09:27:21 PM »
Excellent pointers regarding the PC versions especially with having the ability to close it down to f32 (that's HUGE!) but apparently they are out of my price range online.

BTW, That's a lovely lens you got there. I can feel it by looking at it. Such a TANK!

Here's a copy of pre AI that I got from my Grandfather...



The good ole 55 3.5 micro (Nippon Kogaku) which definitely makes newer lens from nowadays somewhat a joke (mechanically wise)...

FYI - I just ordered the used 105 2.5 P (pre AI) from BH, will let you know once it arrives, hopefully no problems with Flare since it's P (not PC) and Thanks again for links & your kind inputs, @nikfreak!

 8)
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KelvinK

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2015, 10:51:20 AM »
105 AIS 2.5 is one of the best old nikor lenses, its rendering beautiful colors and bokeh photowise, dunno about video tho
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DeafEyeJedi

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Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2015, 08:18:54 PM »
That's what I've heard & can't wait to get my hands on it!  [emoji41]

Also just scooped up a few more Nikkors from my grandfather's collection...

-50 1.4 AI
-135 2.8 (pre-AI)

Oh my goodness!
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nikfreak

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2015, 08:24:44 PM »
try to keep all those goodies. One day Nikon will come up with a sensor based stabilization system and hopefully won't change the lens mount. Then you will feel like a king....
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DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2015, 08:28:28 AM »
@nikfreak -- I've thought of that myself as well and excellent point -- They're just as good as gold!

Heads up everyone else...

Good and Bad news! LOL

Actually the seller oddly reached back to me and said that someone else had made the order just seconds before I did so he went to him instead. Some kind of a joke?

Anyway here's the good news... I can either get one of the following:

assuming this is the one that @nikfreak has? ---> Nikon 105mm f2.5 PC AI

or is it a non AI like this one ---> Nikon 105mm f2.5 PC (non AI)

what do you all think of this? (with FL being at 10.5 cm seems like a cool feature) ---> Nikon 105 2.5 10.5cm P (non AI)

Just got a little more $$ from my recent birthday so I'm gonna take my time on this one and get the RIGHT one.

Chime in your thoughts/suggestions out of these three fine glasses...

Thanks again everyone!
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DeafEyeJedi

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Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2015, 01:58:43 AM »
Just ordered the mighty fine 105 2.5 PC (non AI) on Keh.com for a ridiculous $76 -- no joke!

Thanks again for your pointers @nikfreak and will report back once it arrives...

It better be silky smooth and solid! [emoji5]️
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nikfreak

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2015, 03:58:46 PM »
just seen you added it to your signature already...
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DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2015, 07:09:31 PM »
Well maybe I shouldn't have done that because it hasn't arrived yet... [emoji14]
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DeafEyeJedi

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Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2015, 02:39:54 AM »
That was one of the longest 4 days... Actually make that 5!

Just picked this up...



Currently testing and will report back shortly.

And to be able to go from f2.5 to f32 is just so awesome to have -- hence less is more!!!

Thanks @nikfreak!

[emoji16]
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nikfreak

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2015, 07:13:15 AM »
bargain for the price! Wish ya great shots with it.
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DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2015, 09:26:39 AM »
@nikfreak:

Just because it has P.C. doesn't mean I don't need UV filter on this to prevent frying the sensor if I were to aim at the sunlight to test out the flares, correct?
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nikfreak

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2015, 10:25:43 AM »
Pc is nikons first coating it minmizes flare but modern coatings on lenses are better so I would rather use one  . but you seem to have more knowledge than me on topic as i almost never shoot against direct sunlight
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DeafEyeJedi

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Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2015, 04:12:50 PM »
Well I only asked because the thread on this lens has this one ding on it which kind of makes it difficult to apply 52mm filters on it -- almost like as if I would ruin the filter's thread if I were to take it off and on again but can probably be OK once it stays on and may be difficult to take it off only because I kind of have to twist & force the filter on when applying.

Keh.com still has another P.C. Version online for $76 -- so in other words I'm not sure if I should keep this one regardless of how nice the results that I'm getting w Photos and Videos.

It seems rather heavy used but the glass itself looks precisely clean and I'm just assuming your copy has to be a lot cleaner than this one copy that I have, hmmm?
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nikfreak

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2015, 04:58:53 PM »
If KEH has a return policy you could order the other one too and send back the one that doesn't appeal to you after comparing both @home. But unless the glass is scratched and everything feels and turns smooth you are fine for a price of 76$ no matter what. You now got one for half the price initially stated on the 1st post. save the extra money for ya new 5D3 or MBP cause summed up it's a manual focus lens and it's  the glass that delivers  8)
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DeafEyeJedi

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Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2015, 08:26:19 AM »
Finally got the glass that I like after testing out two copies in comparisons (Good thing KEH has good customer services) and here's one of the first test shots I did with the infamous Nikkor 105 2.5 P.C. (Thanks again to @nikfreak!) and I'm starting to like how the contrast comes out due to its coated glass.... so smooth and silky while it is still built like a tank!

Works well with a Fotodiox Adapter to go with the 5D3 and Post workflow as follows:

MLVFS > AE (Cinelog-C) > FCPX

5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2015, 09:12:20 AM »
Screenshots:
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DeafEyeJedi

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Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2015, 12:13:05 PM »
More FuN sTuff with Nikkor 105 2.5 P.C. -- The Kids had been begging me to shoot them a short as of late so here's what they came up with.

Shot in MLV on 5D3 24 fps 1920 x 1080 closed down to f5.6 @ ISO 200-800 (w ND .9 filter on lens).

MLVFS > AE (Cinelog-C) > LUT's applied in FCPX





Will plan on doing another grade of my own solely in ACR without using Cinelog-C just for comparisons.  8)
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DeafEyeJedi

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Nikkor 85 f2 AI-S vs. Nikkor 105 f2.5 AI
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2015, 09:55:02 AM »
Ran into an article that spoke somewhat highly about this plugin called FCPX LUT Loader which looked interesting and it is currently free to download for a limited time (http://store.pixelfilmstudios.com/plugin/fcpx-lut-loader) so it may be worth for you to check it out meanwhile.

Here's what I was able to come up with by applying just one LUT of choice and then to be able to have control sliders (somewhat similar to ACR) with knobs within the plugin itself all in one for further customizable grading which seems intuitive and gives you that Adobe feeling but perhaps not still quite enough.

Pre - (Original Cinelog-C REC709 FM WIDE DR):                                                    Post - (Modified Cinelog-C REC709 FM WIDE DR via FCPX LUT Loader):
 
 
 
 
 


Chime in your thoughts...
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109