Holden's Key (Cinelog-C)

Started by DeafEyeJedi, March 30, 2015, 10:27:14 PM

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DeafEyeJedi

5D3 (shot in MLV raw) @ 25fps with 16-35L II in Old San Juan Town, Puerto Rico.

https://vimeo.com/123662877

Workflow:

MLVFS > AE (ACR smartimport2) > FCPX

I made a mistake exporting from AE (it spitted out 30fps ProRes when I shot in 25fps)

Will do another proper export when timing persist.

Thanks for watching!

*EDIT 1*

Thanks @JADURCA for giving me pointers on places to go visit in the beautiful island of Puerto Rico!  8)

Here's the 2nd version since I managed to get them render out ProRes 4444 XQ in the correct settings (25fps instead of 30fps)

https://vimeo.com/123749126

Workflow: MLVFS > AE (ACR) > FCPX (Will do another export of this once I get my knowledge down with the Cinelog LUTS - Thanks @Andy600)

Gotta love how the crop-mode makes the 16-35L II look precisely sharp when spot on!

*EDIT 2*

As promised as I would get my hands down with Cinelog-C...

Finally at last... (at least somewhat to me)

Got myself through this hefty road to Cinelog-C's infamous workflow and wow I must say I LOVE it!!!

Again, this is the video I shot regarding Holden's Key being handcrafted in Puerto Rico and as previously stated that I would do another export once I got my hands down with Cinelog-C (THANKS to @Andy600) especially with my favorite adobe apps...

However, I could have stuck with Adobe all the way but couldn't resist the fact about how sexy it is to use LUTS on FCPX within the new LUT Utility plugin with ease. Also Gotta LOVE OpenColorIO in AE (wish someone could help/lead me to a direction to get this one working for PR) -- it's such a sweet plugin!

Workflow as follows:

MLVFS > AE CC 12.1 (SmartImport2 via ACR with Cinelog log applied in OCIO ) export as ProRes4444XQ > FCPX (Used Cinelog-C to REC709 Full LUT & export as H.264 for Vimeo)

Will post video of this workflow soon when timing persist.

Enjoy!

https://vimeo.com/124086438

Special Thanks to @Andy600 for your amazing products!

Please welcome any critics since I know this is far from perfect.

But close enough.

Because I had used Cinelog-C, may need to expose down another half stop or so in ACR... It's all part of the learning curve, right?  :P
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

JADURCA

Nice video showing us this rare kind of art!!! Thanks!!   :)

DeafEyeJedi

Thanks @JADURCA for giving me pointers on places to go visit in the beautiful island of Puerto Rico!  8)

Here's the 2nd version since I managed to get them render out ProRes 4444 XQ in the correct settings (25fps instead of 30fps)

https://vimeo.com/123749126

Workflow: MLVFS > AE (ACR) > FCPX (Will do another export of this once I get my knowledge down with the Cinelog LUTS - Thanks @Andy600)

Gotta love how the crop-mode makes the 16-35L II look precisely sharp when spot on!
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

DeafEyeJedi

As promised as I would get my hands down with Cinelog-C...

Finally at last... (at least somewhat to me)

Got myself through this hefty road to Cinelog-C's infamous workflow and wow I must say I LOVE it!!!

Again, this is the video I shot regarding Holden's Key being handcrafted in Puerto Rico and as previously stated that I would do another export once I got my hands down with Cinelog-C (THANKS to @Andy600) especially with my favorite adobe apps...

However, I could have stuck with Adobe all the way but couldn't resist the fact about how sexy it is to use LUTS on FCPX within their new LUT Utility plugin with ease. Also Gotta LOVE OpenColorIO in AE (wish someone could help/lead me to a direction to get this one working for PR) -- it's such a sweet plugin!

Workflow as follows:

MLVFS > AE CC 12.1 (SmartImport2 via ACR with Cinelog log applied in OCIO ) export as ProRes4444XQ > FCPX (Used Cinelog-C to REC709 Full LUT & export as H.264 for Vimeo)

Will post video of this workflow soon when timing persist.

Enjoy!

https://vimeo.com/124086438

Special Thanks to @Andy600 for your amazing products!

Please welcome any critics since I know this is far from perfect.

But close enough.

Because I had used Cinelog-C, may need to expose down another stop or so in ACR... It's all part of the learning curve, right?  :P
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

DeafEyeJedi

*SCREENSHOTS for comparisons between my custom ACR grade & Cinelog-C (with Cinelog-C REC709 FULL LUT applied)*

ACR:                                                                                                                 Cinelog-C:














Highlights seems to come out better in ACR since I'm not sure if I'm allowed to touch Highlights/Contrast within AE after I apply the REC709 LUT on the exported Cinelog-C footage (@Andy600 perhaps you can correct me if I'm wrong and instead I should fix  the highlights/contrast in ACR prior to or after exporting Cinelog-C?)

Again this is the fun part of the learning curve... so either way I'll get this one down one way or another!

**(I really want to play with the highlights in ACR before exporting Cinelog-C to see if it would help but was told that it would cause flicker! aRGHH)**
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

Kharak

Dont have much to say other than your Highlights look better in your ACR grade than in the Cinelog.

Very noticeable in your 4th and last picture. The Recovery is greater in ACR.

Skin colour looks better in Cinelog C
once you go raw you never go back

Andy600

Pull down your exposure more - at least 1/2 a stop, maybe more.

The Cinelog Rec709 luts have soft clipping highlight roll off designed to push/pull levels within 0.0 - 1.0 data levels. It looks very much like your exposure setting is pushing too much into the upper part of the curve.

Try adjusting exposure until your highlights are looking like the ACR grade. This might make the image look darker overall but you can then push up the shadows with a curves or levels plugin.

As useful as they are for stills, some of the ACR controls are dynamic. I really don't recommend using ACR highlight/shadow controls as there is no way to lock the settings. The Rec709 luts are a 'look' and are essentially an s-curve under a rec709 transfer function designed to bring extended information into a display space. Don't forget, you can manipulate the log information a lot before the Rec709 curve.

If you don't want to do any additional grading work I can probably build you a rec709 lut that replicates your best ACR grade - but your exposure settings will always dictate how much highlight information is displayed. 



Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

DeafEyeJedi

@Kharak: Point taken. Thanks for the comments!

@Andy600: I figured that but I guess what caught me off guard was the fact the footage came out much darker (almost 2 stops) if I were to expose for the highlights and now after your clear explanartion in regards to push up the shadows with a curve or levels plugin in AE BEFORE I export as a Rec709, correct?

I don't mind doing the extra grading work (which is good for me to learn) however I wouldn't mind using a Rec709 LUT that can replicate my ACR grade - if possible?

Heck I wouldn't mind learning how to create my own LUT's to speed up the workflow...  8)

Thanks, again!
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

Andy600

@DeafEyeJedi - You can think of a rec709 lut as a limiter or a window, in that it restricts the absolute output levels for black and white. If the rec709 lut also has an s-curve (i.e. it's not a straight-up transfer function), it can also bring down highlights into a displayable space i.e. a TV, computer monitor etc.

As long as the information gets from ACR into AE (without clipping and without using ACR's dynamic controls) it will contain enough information to be able to recover/manipulate detail in shadows, mids and highlights. The most important thing is to ensure the histogram is not clipping in ACR.

The primary use of the Cinelog rec709 luts (apart from transforming the colorspace) are to ensure the signal remains within the displayable space - this is why they are usually placed last in the chain.

I have, on occasion, needed to use up to +/-2 stops of exposure correction to get the important mid tones into the right place while viewing through a rec709 lut but sometimes I want to see more contrast/tonality in the highlights and use curves placed before the rec709 lut. If it's too dark you can increase the gamma and/or lift the shadows etc BUT it's important to NOT use anything other than exposure compensation when making the log masters - leave the curves and other things for later. The Cinelog-C encoded ProRes file contains all the information you need ;)

The ACR highlight and shadow sliders are not doing anything special but they are 'easy' to use (it sucks that they can't be locked). They work on a limited part of the signal and compresses information while adding some local contrast. It's not easy to replicate in AE with native plugins (though I'm 100% sure it's possible) - I usually do this kind of thing in Baselight or Resolve.

If you can send me a DNG with the sidecar file of your best grade (made using any of the ACR tools), I'll build a lut to match it. I'll also see if I can't replicate the effect of the ACR tools in AE and let you know if/how it can be done using native AE plugins.

re: making luts - If you just want to capture a snapshot of your grade you can do it easily with Red Giant's Lut Buddy plugin in AE. Just remember that a lut can only store hue, saturation, luminance and RGB contrast values. It's even easier in Resolve which lets you export luts directly.

If you're talking technical/colorspace luts it's a whole other ball game as these are strict math transforms. Film luts are a mix of both and are VERY labour intensive/costly - you need to shoot color chips (i.e. with a film camera or ARRI laser), develop the negs and then read the density of each chip with a densitometer before you can get close to making a lut from the XYZ data (the full process will also involve printing a color reversal / timing etc) - and people wonder why these luts can get pricey ;).
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

Danne

Good stuff.
+1 for davinci creating 3dluts.

Danne

To get linear results from acr use the tone curve for highlight and contrast.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12796.msg129978#msg129978

Nice colors Deafeye.

KelvinK

Quote from: Danne on April 06, 2015, 07:15:48 AM
To get linear results from acr use the tone curve for highlight and contrast.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12796.msg129978#msg129978

Nice colors Deafeye.

Colors are plain REC709.

@Deafeye nice short, but adding some background info and music would make it more interesting :)
6D - 5D - NEX - M50!

DeafEyeJedi

Wasn't happy how Koji LUTS weren't coping well with Cinelog-C's workflow until @baldavenger contacted me with his customized Koji LUTS to go with Cinelog-C's workflow in AE which came out nice and Thanks for sharing!

MLVFS > AE (OCIO to apply Cinelog-C FM) + Koji LUT (Cinelog_2383)

https://vimeo.com/137187038

https://vimeo.com/137187036

Screenshots:



With the customized Koji LUTS provided by @baldavenger seems to play it nice with the highlights/shadows and maintains the REC709 FM from Cinelog-C while using Koji's colors... Nice Combo according to my eyes, eh?
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

DeafEyeJedi

Quote from: Andy600 on April 04, 2015, 10:09:53 PM
If you don't want to do any additional grading work I can probably build you a rec709 lut that replicates your best ACR grade - but your exposure settings will always dictate how much highlight information is displayed.

Obviously not that I don't want to do additional grading as I've fallen in love with color work more than ever all because of YOU,  @Andy600!

Thanks for bringing sexy back.

Perhaps when you have time -- could you be kind to create a Rec709 LUT that can duplicate my ACR Grade, if possible?

Do I just sent you a DNG or two?
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109