New 5D S and R version

[Andy600]

Still CF, no C-Fast, oh dear! 

but it does have USB3 - that may be useful.

[Pelican]

I would like to know if a1ex and/or g3gg0 are willing/planning  to port ML to these cameras.
Or these are considered as "professional" bodies like 1DX.

[condra]

Very curious as to what pros and cons there may be, in terms of the larger resolution sensor, and presumably faster processors, buffers, etc.

[Audionut]

This is going to have a pretty small pixel pitch to squeeze all that resolution in.

[Pelican]

Almost the same as the 7D2 pixel size.

[chris_overseas]

Note that the 5DS(R) are dual digic cameras, so porting will be relatively tricky regardless of all other factors.

[Levas]

For all video people:

Better buy the 5dIII

This 50MP beast probably uses lineskipping for video (which means moire).
That means that if ML raw video can be ported to it, it needs about 200MegaBytes of write speed on the compact flash card to make raw video with no crop possible...
So no continuous video on this...

The only thing I can think of that Canon forgot to put into this, and ML maybe possibly can, is full resolution silent(electronic shutter) pictures, for incredible detailed timelapses.
Otherwise I see no need to port ML to the 5Ds...

[budafilms]

I feel lucky and very optimistic about buffers and writes speed for a 5 fps with a 50 megapixels sensor.

It´s true dual processor was a problem for the 7D.

But we have the best Devs of the world!

 

[chmee]

@Levas

5D S /RS - Resolution : 8688 x 5792px - needed for 4x Bining: 7680*4320px
means, it would record ~1.13 cropped, buth with possibly good output. possibly a crop-record-mode isnt needed. and possibly we get 14bit-RGB and not bayer.

regards chmee

[DeafEyeJedi]

It was a joke... 5D3 is still a remarkable valuable piece of history that will definitely STILL be around for a good period of time.

Plus it (along w other bodies) just keeps getting better as each nightlies comes out... We will technically never bleed to death!

Or shoot me if I'm wrong?

LoL

P.S. I think I'm just gonna pass on this R...

and just stand by for the IV!

[emoji102]

[PressureFM]

@chmee

Incidentally, it does exactly 7680 x 4360 at 16:9.

Aspect Ratio: 16:9

• Large: Approx. 42.5 Megapixels (8688 x 4888)
  Medium 1: Approx. 33.2 Megapixels (7680 x 4320)
  Medium 2: Approx. 18.7 Megapixels (5760 x 3240)
  S1 (Small 1): Approx. 10.5 Megapixels (4320 x 2432)
  S2 (Small 2): Approx. 2.1 Megapixels (1920 x 1080)
  S3 (Small 3): Approx. 0.28 Megapixels (720 x 408)

If ML is possible on the camera, the USB3 connection suddenly gets interesting. Hopefully it isn't hampered like the SD card speed of the 5D Mark III.

Could make for some nice clean 1080p and 2160p. I am still scratching my head over the lack of clean HDMI output ... and 4K.

[Levas]

Could be the case that it uses 4x binning on 7680 x 4320 resolution with a little 1.1 crop.

But would that give any benefits over the 3x binning on the 5dIII, which doesn't need a little crop ?

Both end up with 1920x1080 resolution and both of them uses a full-frame sensor.
If sensor tech was exactly the same, the 5DIII would have better dynamic range, due the bigger pixels.
But it is said the dynamic range is almost the same, so Canon did improve some more on sensor tech.

[Audionut]

Smaller pixels mean they can use greater sensitivity on the downstream electronics, since there is a smaller range of voltage that needs to be converted to digital.  And we know from previous Canon equipment, that greater sensitivity means less noise.  Basically, the scale has just been shifted, not improved.

So not so easy to say they made some improvement.

The biggest gain is just the shear number of pixels.  Pixel bin 50 megapickels down to 12 megapickels increases SNR by 8x IIRC.

[Levas]

"Smaller pixels mean they can use greater sensitivity on the downstream electronics, since there is a smaller range of voltage that needs to be converted to digital."
Didn't know that it works like that 
But it's indeed logical, 14 bit conversion on a smaller voltage range means smaller, more accurate, voltage steps in the conversion.

So, noise wise, it's not necessary bad to have small pixels with lower full well capacity ?

[Audionut]

Bigger pixels capture more photons.  More photons is always better.

Sensors in Canon cameras are capable of large DR, as shown in practise by dual ISO.  It's just the noisy downstream electronics.  In this case, since the pixels are smaller, they can adjust the downstream electronics for lower noise.  Same thing as increasing ISO (greater sensitivity).

It's to late at night to think how equivalence works with differing pixel sizes.  But smaller pixels (compared to other Canon FF cameras) means the sensor will saturate sooner, means higher base ISO (as defined by DxO).

[chmee]

@Levas
The sensortech is from 7DII-generation, not 5DIII. generally you can count on (as dxo describes) "print" (picture as a whole) instead of "screen"(100%view)-measurements. the bigger sensor will benefit over the smaller sensor, regardless of the pixelpitch. one more benefit: the 7Dii has got a better noise-characteristic. the hated noisepattern are gone. (look fi on picture 1"fantasy" from 5dsr and push it in photoshop, scale it to 25%, this looks f*ck*n sharp and the deep shadows are quite good as well).

a little thought experiment - look on the dxo-measurements(screen) for snr and dynamics and add simply ~1.3EV onto it. this would be great values.

thats the reason i hope, they will do (a) a better bining and/or (b) better preprocessing. nonetheless i wait for axiom and for the 5d IV.

[KelvinK]

@ Levas Canon Professional Network have release detailed technical information on the 5DS and 5DS R. “The uncompressed HDMI output found on the 5D Mark III has not been included on either of the cameras as the EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R are more prone to moiré and skewing, making them less suitable for high-end video production. A headphone socket, for monitoring audio, is not included. This is due to a lack of space inside the cameras, caused by the move to USB 3.0 connectivity.


You're right, welcome to moire and aliasing

[KelvinK]

I would like to know if a1ex and/or g3gg0 are willing/planning  to port ML to these cameras.
Or these are considered as "professional" bodies like 1DX.

Price tag for 5ds is quite "casual", this camera is obviously not in same league as 1dx/c.

[chmee]

is 3.500Eur for a photographic body really casual? statistically its the upper boundary. the 1dx felt to under 5.000Eur (germany) - i expect 5D IV and a successor for 1DX this year. but: the game on 1dx was clear - there's a 1dc, ml could cannibalize with a hacked 1dx. no-go for a satisfied coexistence.

[Levas]

Would like to see that Canon launches a 5dC.
Meaning they launch a lower(cheaper ) positioned cinema DSLR beside their 1dC.

[KelvinK]

is 3.500Eur for a photographic body really casual? statistically its the upper boundary. the 1dx felt to under 5.000Eur (germany) - i expect 5D IV and a successor for 1DX this year. but: the game on 1dx was clear - there's a 1dc, ml could cannibalize with a hacked 1dx. no-go for a satisfied coexistence.

Well, it's dropped just now for 4 grands so talking about price it was like few weeks ago. I doubt, people who paying for camera body 10k will install there ML. This's just another type of society and mind organization imo

[KelvinK]

Would like to see that Canon launches a 5dC.
Meaning they launch a lower(cheaper ) positioned cinema DSLR beside their 1dC.

No one knows, but I think after investing so much in EOS-C100-500 line they wont back to the professional video in DSLR body. Degrading video options in newest dslr camera is a bad symptom.

[chmee]

@kelvinK if you can enable 4k inside a 1dx, everyone would do its kind of ethics to not spit on your "partner"

@Levas there is at least 1 EOS C Product much under 1dc - the 1dc is a symbiot. high quality DSLR with built in 4k-video. i dont see any advantage from point of canon to release more cheapo-stuff in the eos c line. these are just high hopes.

[budafilms]

We have to expect a lot of firmwares for the new 5D.
So, depends the hardware capabilities maybe they can add 4k h264 and HDMI output. More Iso.
Dual prosessor it´s powerfull.

[KelvinK]

We have to expect a lot of firmwares for the new 5D.
So, depends the hardware capabilities maybe they can add 4k h264 and HDMI output. More Iso.
Dual prosessor it´s powerfull.

No way. A headphone socket, for monitoring audio, is not included. Why they should bother to add 4k then? If they couldn't find place for headphone, there's obviously will be heating issues with 4k. This is not a video camera.