How do i get Sharper Images with Magic Lantern Raw Video for Canon Mark III?

[noeldarkmanx]

Hi everyone, I have the Canon Mark III and recently downloaded the MLV. I have tried my best with different lenses but i don't seem to get those sharper images i see on Magic lantern videos on Vimeo. Please what can i really do to have such sharp images . Here are some sample sharp videos from vimeo

and

  . both shot with my thesame camera i have. Please help

[Walter Schulz]

Please let us know about the workflow you are using now and provide a short sample file you shot (RAW/MLV output) and the file you got after processing.

[Kharak]

F 4.5-5.6 is a good F-stop rane for sharper images and some say F 8 is sharpest for all lenses. Especially on Full frame you need to go down some stops for a sharper image.

Resolve Sharpness is apparantly (from what I have read) much better at sharpening than ACR

Then there is Micro Contrast

And overall contrast of course.

Colour grade

Highlight/shadow ratio

A lot of things play in when you want a sharp image.

Lower ISO's too 200 - 800

[N/A]

They say 1/48 shutter speed for 24p is the universal rule but don't be afraid to experiment, 1/96 results in a sharp frame while still keeping a decent motion blur.

Or you could buy a Zeiss   

[noeldarkmanx]

@ Walter Schulz i just shot with MLV and converted via raw magic rare vision 16bit and then into davinci resolve, then i exported apple proress 442 hq. ISO was 800. F8, 25 frames. Am wondering what the best Workflow am using Davinci resolve and premiere Pro to edit. Please help with the best workflow for MLV as am new to this

[noeldarkmanx]

F 4.5-5.6 is a good F-stop rane for sharper images and some say F 8 is sharpest for all lenses. Especially on Full frame you need to go down some stops for a sharper image.

Resolve Sharpness is apparantly (from what I have read) much better at sharpening than ACR

Then there is Micro Contrast

And overall contrast of course.

Colour grade

Highlight/shadow ratio

A lot of things play in when you want a sharp image.

Lower ISO's too 200 - 800

[noeldarkmanx]

@Kharak, thanks for responding. I tried with ISO 800. F8 and 25 frames doesnt look that bad but micro contrast, overall contrast and highlights shadow ratio is what i dont understand, i would have tried it aswell. So please kindly explain. thanks

[Markus]

That horrible digital sharpness in that horrible first clip is accomplished by boosting the digital sharpness setting when developing the dngs in resolve or Adobe camera raw.

[dubzeebass]

Can I just say what unmitigated bullshit that purity video is. Give me a break already.

[Walter Schulz]

Please let's keep our opinions about content's content out of this. (I muted audio in first vid to avoid distraction)

He asked about image sharpness. I think we agree that first one is not doing a good job in this matter. Tons of aliasing if you look for it.
As sample how to do good sharpening this one sucks IMO.

Second one looks without such flaws. And I have no idea if ML was involved in this production at all.

[noeldarkmanx]

Am sorry if that was the wrong sharpness of video. So whats the right way to get the sharpest MLV footage??

[ChadMuffin]

You can go to dxomark.com where they have a ton of stats on many lenses that show when a certain lens is at its sharpest. Unsharpen mask can help it look sharper. Sounds condisending but, experiment with it.

[extremelypoorfilmaker]

I can say with confidence that to get a nice and sharp image out of MLV you need to do this: (it works for me)

WHILE SHOOTING:

1st. f or T stop MUST be above 4. (anything below, you need to have a REALLY good lens and REMEBER: REALLY GOOD does not measn costing in the thousands! )
2nd you MUST have the main light source BEHIND your camera
3rd Lens hood or matte box will prevent flares and help sharpen the image a bit by keeping your front element in "the darkness"
4th Stay as still as you can / need to be.
5th MAKE SURE lenses and sensor are clean.
6th Make sure what you actually want sharp as a razor is focused correctly
7th Record the image with a flat profile, in the canon menu picture style (sharpness 0, image contrast -4, image tone -2)

WHILE POST-PROCESSING:

The clarity parameter in lightroom does miracles
Look for sharpen image, unsharp mask or stuff like that but BEWARE ofartifacts! (I personally don't use them very often, The clarity paramete in Lightroom does the job well for me)

And that's it pretty much! If you still get not really sharp images, i think is either one of this three options:

1) you are using very low quality lenses
2) you are not setting up your exposure settings properly
3) there is something wrong with the MLV files o_O??

[MikeMcglasson]

I can say with confidence that to get a nice and sharp image out of MLV you need to do this: (it works for me)

WHILE SHOOTING:

1st. f or T stop MUST be above 4. (anything below, you need to have a REALLY good lens and REMEBER: REALLY GOOD does not measn costing in the thousands! )
2nd you MUST have the main light source BEHIND your camera
3rd Lens hood or matte box will prevent flares and help sharpen the image a bit by keeping your front element in "the darkness"
4th Stay as still as you can / need to be.
5th MAKE SURE lenses and sensor are clean.
6th Make sure what you actually want sharp as a razor is focused correctly
7th Record the image with a flat profile, in the canon menu picture style (sharpness 0, image contrast -4, image tone -2)

WHILE POST-PROCESSING:

The clarity parameter in lightroom does miracles
Look for sharpen image, unsharp mask or stuff like that but BEWARE ofartifacts! (I personally don't use them very often, The clarity paramete in Lightroom does the job well for me)

And that's it pretty much! If you still get not really sharp images, i think is either one of this three options:

1) you are using very low quality lenses
2) you are not setting up your exposure settings properly
3) there is something wrong with the MLV files o_O??

Why does using a flat profile matter when shooting MLV?

[budafilms]

WRONG: 7th Record the image with a flat profile, in the canon menu picture style (sharpness 0, image contrast -4, image tone -2)

Picture Style is not going to work in RAW images.

Use DaVinci Resolve, and apply "sharpness".

5d Mark III never going to be to sharp.

[ali farahani]

The lens is more important than anything else. When i shoot video last year with Zeiss Cp2 series first time the results was very sharp and very very clean with magiclantern Mlv raw footages even T2.8 or Wider

[robertgl]

Shoot at an optimal f-stop, and keep the ISO as low as possible.  Also make sure it's in focus.

 Because of the large sensor size, lens quality doesn't play as much a factor as it would with smaller sensors, but obviously a zeiss or an equivalent HQ lens will give you the absolute best results.

Otherwise get a GH4, A7s or NX1 and shoot in 4k. They capture detail far beyond the 1080p on the 5DIII.   

[swinxx]

hello,

i use neatvideo to denoise and sharpen the image a bit.
that works great. also mid detail in davinci resolve works great in combination with sharpness: use all the options but with care.
contrast is also a great sharpness enhancer. just use some contrast settings for sharpening the image.
contrast colors would be the next level of sharpening a image with color correction strategies. there are really many possibilities, just read some cc books as the colorgrading handbook from alexis van hurkman, its great

[extremelypoorfilmaker]

WRONG: 7th Record the image with a flat profile, in the canon menu picture style (sharpness 0, image contrast -4, image tone -2)

Picture Style is not going to work in RAW images.

Use DaVinci Resolve, and apply "sharpness".

5d Mark III never going to be to sharp.

Really? I did not know that! Care to explain me how?

[budafilms]

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5867.0

[budafilms]

And WB is an information saved in your MLV file, but not affect the raw. That's why all post processing software permit change the value.

All that process - WB, PP, JPG - are doing in the camera AFTER the shoot by the processor - well nanoseconds after while you are shooting. And RAW - ISO, Gain, FPS - go directly form the sensor to the card with some instructions from the processor if the buffer is enough.

More technically I don't know. Just use it and enjoy!
 

[goldenchild9to5]

I find a softer image to be more filmic that's just me...

[extremelypoorfilmaker]

Thanks budafilms! Little by Little and day after day i am getting more and more techincal because, quoting the GREAT Robert Rodriguez: "If you are just creative, you will need to rely on technical people. BUT if you are creative AND technical, you are UNSTOPPABLE!!"

I actually find the 5D3 with some nice L lenses to be quite sharp in all honesty! Also because to an extent, you don't really need such razor sharpness as long as the perceived sharpness is enough to trick your eyes, STILL that is to be taken into account regarding where your "film" will be "projected"

[mannfilm]

I get really sharp images with my 5Dm3 and any lens I use.  Assuming good exposure and focus.

#1 problem - bad encoding. If a frame looks good before the encode, it should look good after. First thing bad encoding does is destroy sharpness.

# 2 problem - lack of contrast which looks soft. Most people actually confuse contrast with sharpness. A major cause of loss of sharpness is light source or reflections hitting the lens (a kick,)  which destroys contrast and muddies black levels. Try waving a french flag around the lens and bingo - sudden sharp image.

In post. Options. Many different workflows.
Increase clarity (clarity is like contrast but only effects the mid range of the image.) For a really punchy image you can then add contrast.
First reduce noise which increases apparent sharpness. Then sharpen the image. NEVER go the other way around and sharpen before reducing noise because you are sharpening the noise. I use Neat Video which does both in the right order.
Do not apply film look or skin smoothness plugins as they usually lower sharpening.
In color correction, check to see if your image has broad latitude.

Due to the small size of the 1080p frame, lens has no effect on sharpness, unless its  defective. I have run scientific tests with resolution charts and there is no difference in sharpness between Ziess, Canon zoom EF lens, or a variety older canon and nikon glass. (And this should be no surprise given that the 1080p video frame is 300% smaller then the still frame.)




 

[budafilms]

Well, this is a site for starters and wedding filmmakers, but is a good point:
http://nofilmschool.com/2015/06/here-are-some-simple-tricks-sharpening-your-footage-post