Canon 70D

[X-STATE]

@nikfreak
are you finished with the 70D? Do we expect further updates from you?

[Walter Schulz]

No. Yes.

[OlRivrRat]

      @Swardet

   If your question is related to Raw Video Recording you should state that. Otherwise the 70D is quite capable of

1920x1080 Video Capture with or without M'L'.

   Also you should "Update your forum signature and add your model (70D.111A or 70D.111B)

so (NikFreak) can organize reported bugs to the appropriate firmware revision."

[nikfreak]

Synched up with unified tree. New release available in 1st post.

[OlRivrRat]

      @NikFreak or WhomEver Else might be in the Know

   Does the "Check source for details" that's being used of late in the Changelog area of the 1st Post mean that we should go to

https://bitbucket.org/nikfreak/magic-lantern/commits/branch/70D-merge

or is there some other "source" to nav' to for details ? Gleaning some "details" from that page just doesn't happen, @ least for this

M'L' Lay User. More info in the Changelog area would be Greatly Appreciated. Thank You Much again for All Your Great Work.

                                       ORR ~ DeanB

[starbase64]

@nikfreak

thanks for your work, canon is nothing without Magic Lantern

[ShootMeAlready]

Now that Canon has opened their Komono on the 80D, I was initially excited to learn
that it would offer FHD 60 fps, and FHD HDR video at 30fps.  It seemed like they might have
put a fast processor in it! But since this is Canon after all, and they are hell bent on letting marketing
hi-jack the performance, to keep XXD line subserviant to the XD line, ... the gotcha moment came
"it  only does all the above in IPB compression".  So Canon has again provided some opportunity for ML.

I guess the question of interest is can the 70D shoot:
- FHD 60 fps, IPB only, H264
- FHD HDR 30 fps, IPB only H264
These to me seem like ML enhancements opportunities, as H264 improvements are far more promising than RAW video.

I am also curious to see if their HDR works with fast moving action.  Not sure
if they can correct it?

[dmilligan]

Features that are NOT possible - please don't request them 

1080p 60fps, 2K, 4K, RAW video...
The best we could do was 1080p 35fps on 60D and 600D. If you request this, you are a 4K troll

Custom codecs
Codecs are not implemented on the general-purpose ARM processor. Only MJPEG might be technically possible, since the camera already saves JPEGs.

Your question really boils down to this:
"Why can't I capture more information, by throwing away information?"

Now from a more practical standpoint:
Compression (what you refer to as "lowering the bitrate") is a difficult, computationally intensive task (it's also impossible). It is not a magical process where you throw some data in and it comes out smaller. The only way to get enough of an effective compression ratio for the incredibly huge size of a video data stream, is to just throw away some of it. The goal here being to throw out the least important information, but we are throwing away information nonetheless. The better an algorithm is at throwing away data (i.e. the better it is at figuring out what data is unimportant), typically the more complex it is. There are very easy ways to throw away data, such as reducing the resolution and line skipping, and there are very hard ways of throwing away data such as DCT

Lets now consider (a very oversimplified) pipeline that a video stream goes through in the camera:
Sensor -> Raw Data -> Image Processing (demosaic, wb, pic style, curves, etc.) -> H.264 Encoder -> Storage

If you want a 1080p stream out of the encoder, you also need that 1080p stream to make it's way through the rest of that pipeline (at 60fps). That's where the limitation is, in fact there are probably many, I'll just go over some of the possible ones:
1. The H.264 encoder, can't handle 1080p of video data coming into it at 60 fps (remember it has to do something very complex and computationally intensive with the data and then spit out that result very quickly)
2. The image processing electronics can't handle 1080p of raw data at 60 fps
3. The internal buses that move the raw data from the sensor to the image processors can't handle that much data (1920*1080*14bit*60fps = 1.7 Gigabits per second)
4. The sensor itself isn't fast enough to sample 1080 lines at 60 fps (it takes some finite amount of time to read out each line, and they are read one by one)

I'm not saying that all of those are true, but at least one or more of them are, and that's why 60p mode is a lower resolution. Overcoming any of these obstacles is possible, but it would require more transistors (i.e. faster, more complicated electronics), which would make the camera more expensive. So without more expensive internal electronics, the only way to get enough "compression" to be able to even get our video data to the encoder, is to "compress" the data starting at the sensor itself, and what's the only way to do that? line skipping and reducing the resolution -> basically don't read in as many pixels.

[ShootMeAlready]

Thanks Doug.

I recall the 600D card write speed is 50% less than the 70D.  Not sure about the 60D.
The variable fps is not working with the 70D ML presently for h264 video.
So if the 70D supports faster cpu & bus, it may very well reach 50% faster fps for 1080p than the 600D (i.e. up to 70 fps???).

I think the line of 70D investigation, has to be to use existing IPB compression chip.
Clearly IPB bit rates are less CPU than All-I.  So if the existing pipe-line can handle All-I at 720p / 60 fps,
then when we switch to IPB some of the cpu and pipeline is not used/free.  I seem to recall IPB is about 1/3 the data as All-I.
So the cpu power & pipeline has some untapped capacity in IPB.

The question becomes in 720p IPB compression, how can we trick the camera into using 1080p?
Or the converse question in 1080p IPB compression, how can we trick the camera into going 60fps?

There is some potential here. 

The HDR 60fps video correction for fast motion, to be honest sounds like a rats nest.
I wonder if you shift each frame by 1/120th of a second, alternately (shift ahead, shift behind) then
use HDR frame processing, followed by PPro stabilizer correction, if it would generate a sharp 30 fps picture?
Considering how slow HDR processing for in camera stills, this post processing would always be in post for video.

[dmilligan]

Clearly IPB bit rates are less CPU than All-I.  So if the existing pipe-line can handle All-I at 720p / 60 fps,
then when we switch to IPB some of the cpu and pipeline is not used/free.  I seem to recall IPB is about 1/3 the data as All-I.
So the cpu power & pipeline has some untapped capacity in IPB.

Again, encoding is NOT done on the CPU (which is way to slow for realtime compression). It is done in dedicated hardware. That hardware is very specific and cannot be changed. If it was not originally designed to do 1080p60, then it just can't. Furthermore, the amount of data coming out of the hardware encoder has little bearing on the complexity of the computations going on inside the hardware encoder. Just because the bitrate out to the card is low doesn't mean that the encoder isn't doing a lot of work. Furthermore, the bitrate out of the encoder, or the type of encoding for that matter, has no bearing on the amount of data coming *into* the encoder from the sensor, which will be double if you are trying to do 1080p60. You need a "pipeline" to the encoder that's twice as fast and powerful, regardless of the type of compression used.

The question becomes in 720p IPB compression, how can we trick the camera into using 1080p?
Or the converse question in 1080p IPB compression, how can we trick the camera into going 60fps?

The question becomes this stack of 10 $5 bills, how can we trick it into becoming a stack of 10 $10 bills? Or the converse question, this stack of 5 $10 bills, how can we trick it into becoming a stack of 10 $10 bills?

There is some potential here. 

No there isn't.

[lozw]

Anyone got dotTune working on their 70D?

Couldn't get this working on mine

Nightly.2016Mar08.70D111A

Following the instructions,
I focus manually in LV
Start DotTune AMFA Scan.
It gives a couple of messages about perfect focus and keeping the camera still.
Then it shows the dotTune 'range' across the top of the menu screen.
But then the screen goes blank.
I leave it for 10+ minutes, and it is still blank and the camera controls are inoperative.
So I have to switch off.

[nikfreak]

No need to duplicate questions in 2 threads. DotTune works on 70D. Better read through the dottune thread again for instructions. Screen going black rather sounds like powersave. If you are in doubt then reset cam settings and retry.

[lozw]

No need to duplicate questions in 2 threads. DotTune works on 70D. Better read through the dottune thread again for instructions. Screen going black rather sounds like powersave. If you are in doubt then reset cam settings and retry.

Sorry for the duplicate post.

The culprit seems to have been the LCD on/off Btn on the 2nd camera tool menu.  If I set that to remain on, the LCD remained on whilst it was performing the AFMA.

[eugene-r]

Anyone got dotTune working on their 70D?

Couldn't get this working on mine

Nightly.2016Mar08.70D111A

Following the instructions,
I focus manually in LV
Start DotTune AMFA Scan.
It gives a couple of messages about perfect focus and keeping the camera still.
Then it shows the dotTune 'range' across the top of the menu screen.
But then the screen goes blank.
I leave it for 10+ minutes, and it is still blank and the camera controls are inoperative.
So I have to switch off.

Yes, sometimes I got same "couple of messages about perfect focus" and nothing more. I switch camera off, then on, and dot_tune works normally.
Looks like it hangs rarely after lens change. I just switch camera off before change lens, then switch on and dot_tune works normally.
Not tried with 2016Mar08 version, but with previous. I have "B" firmware.

[swardet]

Sorry if this is a duplicate/stupid question, but...

I have a 70D and 111B. I use my camera for 100% video -  only take stills for white balancing. Therefore I am mainly interested in ML for RAW video. The most I can get is 1280x720 in MLV mode and constant - hasn't bagged out on a shoot. The other mode even at that res would always top out and give me the "recording has stopped automagically" message.

Recently, I asked about the camera's throughput and someone said max is 40MB/s. Therefore, it doesn't matter if I went and bought the high speed/high capacity card at 256GB and 95MB/s for RAW, the camera can only record to media at 40MB/s. So I'm limited to MLV at 1280x720.

It seems to me that if I want RAW video, I had best upgrade to the 5dm3 and use ML, or jump canon's ship and get a panasonic gh4, right? The ability to bring the 720p RAW footage shot on 70D in and use the Camera RAW feature in DaVinci Resolve 12 is very cool, but shooting w/ CineStyle and applying the LUT to 1920x1080 stock ALL-I footage provides very similar/same color grading in my eyes, and I'm native 1080.

What if anything am I missing about the main benefits of ML RAW video on the 70d? And this is not a slam on ML - far from it - the work you guys have done/are doing is amazing (and canon should buy you). But, if I'm looking for 1080p RAW I should have bought a 5d, right?

If I'm missing something as to the feature set of ML for video

[xsghost]

I never heard of the GH4 shooting RAW.

I think the main benefits of shooting RAW on Canon DSLRs is having a better image quality than the processed ALL-I. And of course more color data, and dynamic range.

Of course if stock footage and shooting RAW would be my priorities, I'd rather get a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera with a very wide M4/3 lens. It's the same price as a 70D

[aedipuss]

swardet - yes if you need 1080 raw you need a different camera.  a 5d3 will cost you the 70d 's only advantage of auto-focus while shooting.   if manual focus only doesn't bother you i'd go there.  a gh4 will cost you all the glass also.  i might wait and see what canon releases this year.  i know of an 80d and there will be a couple other new models but no specifics.  i've heard rumors the very large sensor may get produced(200mb or more).

[swardet]

@xsghost
i didn't say anything about the gh4 and raw.

and i don't care about raw, necessarily. in context, with ml, it appears raw is the most talked about way to get the highest depth of color out of this rig. and, i only care about the best color quality - and that's why i'm here as a video enthusiast.

honestly, i bought the 70d without fully investigating color fully. what sold me on the 70d was 1st) AF+Face Tracking w/ video. 2nd) I already had three very expensive canon lenses.

anyway, i think ml is amazing and still contend canon should buy the guys and turn this into a full fledged officially supported product offering to really exploit the canon hw.

[xsghost]

@xsghost
anyway, i think ml is amazing and still contend canon should buy the guys and turn this into a full fledged officially supported product offering to really exploit the canon hw.

Yeah.. that's never gonna happen.. Canon can exploit it's hardware, but they want you to buy the more expensive stuff for better features, like the Cxxx cameras.

[Stoneeye]

Just wondering how to do this part on a MacBook Pro:

Extract the zip-file to the root of your sdcard

Thanks!
C

[OlRivrRat]

      @StoneEye

   1st, Mount the SDCard on the MBP via a Card Reader & Then > Either of 2 ways ~

1 ~ Copy the Zip File to the SDCard & DoubleClick it, then Move the Contents of the resulting

"magiclantern-Nightly.2016Mar08.70D111-" Folder out of that Folder to the Root Level.

   Or

2 ~ Make a New Folder on the MBP, Put the Zip in that Folder & DoubleClick the Zip, then Copy the Contents of the resulting

"magiclantern-Nightly.2016Mar08.70D111-" Folder out of that Folder to the Root Level of the SDCard.

   I always use the 2nd method.

                                 ORR ~ DeanB

[aedipuss]

if the 70d has now been merged with main, shouldn't it show up in the list of nightlies?

[Walter Schulz]

Merging main to Nikfreak's fork is not identical to Nikfreak's pull request for main.
https://bitbucket.org/nikfreak/magic-lantern/commits/all
https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/pull-requests/620/add-support-for-eos-70d-111-both-revisions/diff

[Ronsanut]

How do I know which firmware set to load?  A or B ?  My firmware on the camera just says 1.1.1

[OlRivrRat]

      @Rosanut

   Just try either, only the Correct one will load. If your 70D is fairly new you will most likely need "A".

                                 ORR ~ DeanB