Author Topic: Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw  (Read 4753 times)

swinxx

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Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw
« on: December 01, 2014, 11:31:06 PM »
hello forum folks!

is it only me, or is the canon mlv material really hard to color grade with davinci? (especially skin tones and green nature (trees) are really hard to finesse!)
no lut is working really well, and with bmdfilm (and bmdfilm4k) i can not get the material look like it was supposed to look.

i work with davinci resolve 11 and dive deep into mastering the color grading craft (great book is e.g. the color grading handbook 2nd edition from alexis van hurkman).  the more i know, the harder it gets to grade skintones right. especially with mlv material. 

does anyone have some tips or can provide some davinci resolve tutorial links where skin tones are treated right? (perhaps with mlv material)

thank you very much, greets.  swinxx

Levas

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Re: Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2014, 09:56:59 AM »
Maybe a stupid question, because you say you already dived deep in the color grading craft.

But do you set your exposure and white balance right, before further color grading ?
I often need to repositioning the tint slider (green/magenta) in the white balance.
I think Canon often delivers greenish faces, I prefer some more magenta and less green (probably I'm color blind  :P)


swinxx

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Re: Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2014, 12:49:17 PM »
@lavas:
first.. there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers :)
anyway...

here are some shots which i have graded so far:

i grade footage for 1 year, and really like it. but since i had the luck to also grade some red footage, i have a problem with the mlv material when using bmdfilm cause it is much harder to get it right now. it looks ok only in 5% of all shots..

perhaps i am searching for some background info and someone can help here.

so when mlv is converted to cdng files davinci resolve import them as blackmagic raw files, yes/no? the problem seems that they are not! cause the sensor output seems to differ a lot.
so when using the raw palette in davinci, i can choose bmd film gamma, when converting it to rec709 the colors do not look right. perhaps the color matrix must be converted within a converter operation, i don´t know.
i dont want to be misunderstood, but when grading with davinci (which is the best program for that task in my opinion) i have to correct all those color issues (sensor output differences from bmd and canon) i have also tried many different luts, they all do not look right for my eyes. all the colors are shifted in a kind of subtle weird way cause the source material is not what the lut expects. yes/no?

perhaps we should shot some test charts and compare them side by side (canon - bmd) to see and correct with a converter color matrix change. (don´t know if that is possilbe?)

perhaps the problem only occurs with davinci? i dont know? but for my taste, the colors are just not correct. (i think this has nothing to do with white balance problems)

greeting sw





dubzeebass

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Re: Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2014, 02:06:57 PM »
Try Hunters LUT, BMD Film (not  4k) then apply the LUT. Makes skintones beautiful!

Levas

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Re: Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2014, 04:30:59 PM »
@Swinxx
You worked with red footage  :o , now you're spoiled  :P no cure for that  ;)

I see in the movie you posted, your skin tones are orange like...is that what you're trying to get right, less orange faces ?
The problem with DaVinci is that it is designed (or at least BMD film) for the blackmagic cameras.
I've tried BMD film on MLV dng's, but the red colors aren't right, they turn out orange.
Skintones are also in this area.
You could probably try to correct this with curves -> Hue vs Hue correction  :-\

My current workflow is editing my dng's in RawTherapee and output them as TIFF's for further editing in DaVinci.




reddeercity

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Re: Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2014, 04:07:45 AM »
That the Number one reason why I only use After Effect with ACR and not Resolve, never seen good skin tones for resolve yet from ML Cdng's.
You need to per-grade the file first .

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2014, 05:32:27 AM »
That the Number one reason why I only use After Effect with ACR and not Resolve, never seen good skin tones for resolve yet from ML Cdng's.
You need to per-grade the file first .

I was actually suspecting similar effects and thanks for confirming @reddeercity -- another reason why I can't stop myself from using ACR within AE.
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swinxx

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Re: Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2014, 06:05:00 AM »
But its the workflow and speed where resolve leaves all the other apps far behind.. So we should try to find a workflow that makes resolve rock with mlv cdngs!! Any other suggestions are welcome

Andy600

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Re: Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2014, 06:28:19 AM »
@swinxx - Can you send me a dng (or 2) of a shot where you are having problems with skin tone. Resolve is fantastic for skin but BMD Film is a colorspace optimized for Blackmagic Cameras so it needs some manipulation and for the absolute best results you really need to use qualifiers to isolate skin. The new color matrices I posted will help with white balance but you need to make sure you always balance properly in camera when shooting or shoot with a grey card. We're about to send out the final release copies of Cinelog-C for Resolve and ACR users and it comes with a good selection of new REC709 and Film Processed looks that give great skin tones.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

swinxx

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Re: Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2014, 08:00:59 AM »
hello andy600

thank you for chiming in :)

yes i will send you some dngs when i come home at night. however, do you you have a release date or a pre version of you luts for me to test? i have bought the cinelog c lut some month ago still waiting for the manual which you promised also some month ago.. hmm
greets.

btw. dont get me wrong i dont want to be offensive, so please forgive me..

Andy600

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Re: Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2014, 10:26:48 AM »
@Swinxx - no offense taken :)

I just want to check the DNG's and see if there is something different between our workflows or something odd with the matrices etc - I should then be able to give you some tips.

We're aiming to get the release out this week. We had a few emails from users who didn't quite grasp the concept of the color transform luts (that's understandable I guess) so we're simplifying things. There will be full colorspace transform luts but they will be optional as most ML users don't really need them. Instead of having everything separate we have built a variety of new Rec707 and Film looks using the film luts and color transforms included in the pre-release pack. Every look is designed to work with Cinelog-C footage and you simply add them after the BMD Film to Cinelog-C lut (or the new Cinelog V3.0 to Cinelog-C lut in ACR). There really isn't much to learn in this respect but we have been working on a series of tuts to help you get the most from the basic looks.

We have produced a simple guide for applying luts (it's nothing you don't already know how to do tbh) but the more in-depth stuff will come through video tutorials on the new website. I thought it better to do it this way as it's easier to watch and follow than read my often long ramblings ;).

Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

Levas

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Re: Get the Skin Tone Right with ML Raw
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2014, 04:52:39 PM »
@Swinxx
Can you upload a few DNG's somewhere, where we all can download it ? Google drive or something some other filesharing service ?
This way we can all try our workflows and see if anyone else his workflow give better skin tone results and I would like to try what I can achieve in Resolve.
Good to know how well I am in color grading   ;D