Edit and Post Workflow - Premiere, After Effects. Adding Resolve to the mix?

Started by kihlbahkt, December 01, 2014, 09:28:12 PM

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kihlbahkt

Hey Gang,
Asking about post workflow around here is pretty RAW-centric these days but this is not related to RAW video.
I am hoping that someone here has had experience working on h.264 footage on Premiere v6, After Effects v6 and Resolve 11 (free) as part of their workflow. I am preparing to begin editing footage and I am trying to sort out my options. I need to do the rough and final edits and synch audio in premiere, do post effects in after effects and then use Resolve to do color correction and other tweaks for the overall look.
I am new to resolve but have found it to be really nice to work with so far. I downloaded it last week and crammed thru a bunch of training videos. I have done plenty of editing, post effects and color correction working between AFX and Premiere but I am trying to figure out how to integrate Resolve into the workflow. I am sure to sort it out be myself over the next week or so but if anyone has tips, suggestions or real world experience with a similar workflow challenge I would appreciate your input.
My research so far has led me believe that I can export EDL (along with the clips) from Premiere to Resolve but then getting anything back and forth between Resolve and After effects is pretty much doing hi res output. Not exactly ideal.

I have tons of green screen to remove and lots of post effects, 2d and 3ds graphics and animation as well to integrate into the final cut so I have much work to do. My original plan did not include Resolve so I can easily drop it from the mix but I really liked the ui and capability in Resolve so I am considering using it for this project. Thanks for your help.
600D x2

kihlbahkt

I will document my workflows here for anyone else who might deal with this in the future. Still in research and discovery mode for adding Resolve to the mix. I have denoising, green screen removal, bg compositing(3d virtual), actor beauty work, and effects compositing that will occur in After Effects. I am still on the fence and need to do some tests around whether I want to deal with titles and other lower third graphics and text before or after Color Correction in Resolve. I am leaning towards doing all titles and graphic composites after color correction is completed but could output some
(simple ones) of those in my export to Resolve and mask then out of color correction. That sounds like a terrible idea but it is in the mix right now.


The only reason I am doing this is because Resolve is an awesome tool for color correction and I have only been using it for less than a week. I have been grinding thru the Resolve training course by Patrick Inhofer @ lynda.com and he provides some great training for Resolve. He also has a colorist website that is a great resource for color correction and resolve specific information.

I will need more than one workflow depending on complexity.These are the bare bones flows I am considering currently.

Most complex:
PP>AE>Resolve>AE
Less complex:
PP>AE>
Simple with limited or no CC/FX:
PP
Simple with CC only:
Resolve or PP

The plan is to use PP to do final output to Blu-Ray and web video.

I will add more detail as I determine what does and does not work for me and flesh out these workflows.
600D x2

kihlbahkt

So more testing complete and I have come to some conclusions about integrating Resolve into my Adobe workflow.  The most significant issue is that without the proper hardware you cannot dump Resolve output to a second monitor. The real estate available for video is insufficient generally. This factor alone is enough for me to step back since it complicates the grading process if doing power window tracking on small details, for example. As a free tool is is pretty awesome but I have decided to only use Resolve for simple grading work in this project.

I have found that 16 bit TIFF image sequences work fine for passing data between Resolve and AE or PP.

I would love to work with Resolve using a control surface and a second monitor. This wraps up my posts for this subject. Now I need to get busy in Adobe and get this project moving to completion.
600D x2

DeafEyeJedi

This is quite interesting... Definitely will be following this thread from here on out...

Thanks for sharing @kihlbahkt!
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

kihlbahkt

Thanks @ DeadEyeJedi. I would be glad to know that any info I share will help someone. I am still working out denoising settings in Neat Video and reducing and obscuring posterization artifacts. 8-bit compressed provides challenges for final high image quality, particularly with the plans I have for heavy modification of the video.Currently working with blending color gradients to add some additional color data and adding noise back into the video to reduce posterization with terrible to satisfactory results. I am also considering adding graphic elements to break up large color fields, like walls, with composites of fake photos or other wall hangings to hide posterization from the viewers eyes. Thinking like a magician could be helpful. Misdirection and guiding the viewer to see what I want them to see and to not see what I don't want them to see will provide some cover for less than great video quality. I have wide latitude since there is no one but me to decide what is satisfactory and appropriate for each of the segments.Total elimination of artifacts for all sequences is not a goal. It is a compilation of skits, fake commercials, and animation that are intended to represent content from many sources, so one goal is to produce a variety of image quality from poor to excellent. Just like one might see if you were to turn on your TV right now and flip thru the channels. 

I have been shooting at higher bit rates, 1.3 or higher for recent shoots and I will be trying to determine how that compares to the default bitrate video I shot earlier in the project and whether it provides value for increased final quality over default bitrate.

The worst part is that I have a full time job and wife (let's go out/ watch a movie with me/clean up your messes)  to keep me from full on engagement with the project.  She has been great dealing with me taking over parts of the house and cramming it full of lights and stands and green screen. Having the dining room table in the living room for a week was different.
600D x2

DeafEyeJedi

Thanks for posting @kihlbahkt -- however I just read another thread somewhere (will find it and post it in here shortly) but it states that there may be no advantages with higher bit rate as oppose to default bitrate and this is primarily for the 5D3...

Since I'm not sure which canon model you were referring this to?

I assumed the 5D3 If I'm not mistaken.

Thanks again!
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

Kharak

The higher bit rates makes the h264 artifacts more controlled and sustained in the shadows, that is what I've come to understand from increasing CBR.

Other than that, the difference should be minimal. The 8 bit conversion simply rips the picture apart.


once you go raw you never go back

DeafEyeJedi

so it may be best NOT to mess with CBR at this moment, correct? (for the 5D3)

It's fun playing with it on the EOS-M though...

...Such a tease!

*grunts*
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

Mehmet Kozal

Canon 650D user. Also, Bilal Fakhouri is a hero.

kihlbahkt

So here is another update for a workflow I use for preparing timelines in Premiere and Chroma Key work in After Effects.
Always create a folder for each of the new file  groups you create since it makes it so much easier to find crap later...we have all been there. Organize your project logically and use descriptive names.
This describes putting together a newscast sequence from multiple prproj files using audio from H4N.

Edit Video and Synch audio in Premiere for each segment. (sports, weather, traffic) Each of those segments is a separate Premiere project. (Alt+left/right) to nudge clip one frame is handy to synch A/V.
Select Video and Audio track, right click and Link.
Right click and Nest.
Rename timeline seq and project sequence to the same name. ie weather.
Backup each project with a copy.

Create  new Premiere project which will hold all of the nested sequences you created. Call it Master Timeline or similar.
Import each nested sequence using File>Import. Navigate to the folder that is holding the premiere project files and select one.
Choose Import Selected Sequences and grab the right sequence. Build up your final timeline using these sequences.
I add two seconds to the start and end of the timeline.
Again Save and make backup copy.

Prepare for chroma key in After Effects.
In Master Timeline unlink audio from video, select all clips and right click, Unlink.
Lock the audio track.
Starting with the first sequence, right click, Replace with After Effects Comp.
After Effects will open, prompting you to define  save location and name.
Now you are working with the sequence from Premiere in After Effects. In this case I will describe a simplified chroma key for a green screen that can have ok to pretty good results.
ALT+Click on 8bpc at bottom of Project Panel to change to 32 bpc. In After Effects apply effect Selective Color. Set color to Green from dropdown.
Set Cyan, Yellow, and Black to 100.
Set Magenta to -100 (minus 100)
Select Effect and CTRL+D to duplicate this layer. Green screen should be hot glowing green. You might want to dupe it again, maybe.
Apply Keylight. I wont describe the setting tweaks here...maybe another time, but each clip will need its own settings most likely anyway. Dont go nuts on the sliders. Focus on Screen Gain and Screen Balance and the settings in Screen Matte. Change view to Combined or Screen Matte to see the matte and tweak settings. It can take awhile.
You can also apply other effects in AFX.  When completed with work in After Effects, save and open new project in After Effects. If you dont then next sequence you Replace with After Effects Comp in Premiere will hijack the open After Effect project and add it as a new comp. I did not want that to happen. I am trying to keep everything separate. You dont want to close After Effects when doing this dynamic link work.
Back in Premiere the Green Screen is gone.
Save and backup your work.

In Premiere use Fast Color Corrector to adjust Black, White and midpoint of the luma range. Use the YC waveform monitor to adjust.

Anyway, so far this has proved to be relatively simple. Unless you are running a super computer you will lose realtime playback in Premiere once you apply effects in After Effects. So you need to make sure that you have a solid final timeline.
That is all for now. These clips still have work to be done on them.  Primary and maybe some secondary color correction, de-noising, beauty work in Mocha, background composites, motion graphics, chyrons, bugs and the lower thirds crap. So much work, so little time.


600D x2