Author Topic: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode  (Read 17204 times)

ShootMeAlready

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APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« on: November 01, 2014, 08:53:19 PM »
There has been some dicussion on full frame crop mode, but its never quite clear what common glass works on which FF.

I have read that Philip bloom notes that Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 works at 16mm on 5DMIII, even without crop.  I have also read that in 3X crop mode it works full range 11-16mm.

I am just wondering about some other great aps-c glass.  Have any folks checked these on FF (5DII/III,6D)

- canon 10-24
- canon 18-55 f2.8
- Sigma 18-35 f1.8
- Sigma 55-150 f2.8
- canon 55-250 f4-5.6

T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

chmee

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2014, 12:05:40 AM »
is it worth the hassle? because some of them arent cheap as well. i m shure there are discussions about crop-lenses on fullframe in photo-communites. a lot. some of them (fi this tokina) doesnt touch/brake the mirror, others do. third party lenses should fit on the ef-mount - but no guarantee on smashing the mirror :)

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3604347#forum-post-52873126

regards chmee

Levas

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2014, 12:23:16 AM »
the first two lenses in your list are Canon, these wille never fit on EF full frame mount if they are EF-S lenses...
Third party lenses do fit on your canon EF full frame camera mount, but you have to "google" if they won't smash your mirror.

However, if they are 3d party lenses, and you can check them in a store or shop, you can easily see if the rear lens elements do stick out the back of the lens or not.
If nothing moves on the rear/mount part of the lens, they should fit and shouldn't damage your mirror...


ShootMeAlready

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2014, 08:14:14 PM »
Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 ~ yes it fits/shoots see below.

Here is the kind of test I am after, it shows that the Tokina can be used fully in 5D Mark II crop mode (which can be 2k no less so this will be a low-light super 16mm, something the GH3/4 aren't!!!).
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8099.0

From this thread at DPR, it is claimed that all 3rd party generally make their aps-c glass EF mount anyways (life is easier).
He claims its only the Canon EF-S stuff that runs a foul!
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52879934

There seems to be some baffle, which can removed on the canon glass, but is generally not recommended to be. 

So the Canon 17-50 2.8 is out but Tamron 17-50 f2.8 VC is in !

<see reply #7>
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9464.0

I guess the moral of this story is always buy 3rd party aps-c glass.

sigma 18-35 f1.8 ~ yes fits/shoots on 6D
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/sigma-18-35-1-8/4

So it seems that the sigma 50-150mm should fit as well!?!? But I can't find a bonafide test or shot taken with it.

So the Tokina is a yes it fits/shoots, and works fully on 3X crop mode.

The Tamron 17-50 2.8 VC yes it fits/shoots.  Interested to see if full range works on 3X crop mode?

The sigma 18-35 1.8 is yes it fits/shoots. Interested to see if full range works on 3X crop mode?

The sigma 50-150mm should fit.  Interested to see if full range works on 3X crop mode?

T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

rainless

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2014, 10:36:12 PM »
The newer Sigma 30mm 1.4 A1 fits as well: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1220042/0

The old one also fits... but with vignetting, so you'd have to crop it afterwards.

And yes... you should ALWAYS buy 3rd party APSC lenses. Or just don't buy APS-C lenses at all since you know you'll be stepping up to full frame eventually and L lenses work just fine on APS-C cameras. (Really kicking myself for not buying a 24-105L when they were on sale for 500 bucks...)
The Gear - Canon 5D Mark II, Yongnuo 565EX flash, PhotoSel 3mx3m backdrop stand with 3mx3m muslin backdrops. Elinchrom D-Lite 4 it studio lights, some big-ass 110cm reflector. Unlimited German Models

rainless

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2014, 11:40:40 PM »
Quote
Here is the kind of test I am after, it shows that the Tokina can be used fully in 5D Mark II crop mode (which can be 2k no less so this will be a low-light super 16mm, something the GH3/4 aren't!!!).
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8099.0

You're kidding yourself...

You can stick any kind of lens you want on the 5D Mark II (and even the 5D Mark III) and the GH4 will still kick the shit out of it.

I say that as a Canon Magic Lantern user on THIS forum...

I've spent the past month writing an article on the future of photography. I've had a range of Cameras (5D II, 6D, 7D, GH4, A7S) at my disposal all week long. To my eyes there's absolutely no difference between the 24-70 on a 5D II and the standard 12-35 on the GH4... until you go into video mode.  At which point? GAME OVER.

Ted's video is nice... but the quality in crop mode is really suffering. Versus something like this: 
As a photographer the 6D and D750 are the most comfortable cameras I've ever held in my hand. And they both have excellent low-light performance and you can get away with a lot more than you can with the 5D MK II.  But as a videographer... there's nothing any camera on the market can do... particularly in daylight... that the GH4 can't. (Once you get above 1600 ISO it's a whole new ballgame... but I digress.)
The Gear - Canon 5D Mark II, Yongnuo 565EX flash, PhotoSel 3mx3m backdrop stand with 3mx3m muslin backdrops. Elinchrom D-Lite 4 it studio lights, some big-ass 110cm reflector. Unlimited German Models

ShootMeAlready

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2014, 03:32:27 AM »
Rainless not quite sure were you're going with that but here's some links for the 5D MII in 3x crop mode shooting 2K,
2152 x 980  ~ shooting raw video

http://www.ramasolaproductions.com/6.html
In crop mode
2144 x 898 = continuous recording raw video

The sensor being centre 1/3 of a FF, is smaller than a super 16 but its pixels are bigger, it should handle low light better without aliasing/moire (its cropped!).
Low-light is a common blog bitch against the MFT sensors.  I'm a fan of what the GH4 can do well, but low light is not a strength of its sensor. 
I prefer to think of the 5D MII 3X crop raw 2K as a poor cousin to the GH4 in the 16mm space but its ability to compete is really under the radar, and for less than half the money ($1k used) its pretty good value. 
And if you think about a $660 speed booster to get your canon EF mount lenses to work, then its closer to 1/3rd the money. 

As for the GH4 video or claims, I really cant respond on this thread without hi-jacking it, there are so many other places to discuss GH3/4 strengths/weaknesses. 
Rather than compare a MFT 4K with a FF 1080p, try to compare with a 2.5K raw crop and have both re-res to 1080p.

T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

rainless

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2014, 08:18:19 AM »
Well I'm just saying I haven't seen any practical applications for this 2k video. Everything's just like the 2.5k on the clip you linked to: Short clips... tests... sometimes flowers.

But I have yet to see a short film shot in 2k or anything practical.  A seen with dialogue... a chase seen... Something that's more than 4 seconds long. And if you're talking about a used 5D mk II you have to compare it to a used GH4. (Because new, and body only, they cost the same... or the 5D is more.)

Back on the topic of full frame though... I have APS-C lenses and I'm looking to get either a 5D MK II or a 6D.  I know the 30mm 1.4 will have vignetting... but if I'm using crop mode anyway... which would you recommend? the mk II for the CF card or the 6D for the low light? Don't the both do 2k?

And am I right that using crop mode will negate the vignetting anyway?
The Gear - Canon 5D Mark II, Yongnuo 565EX flash, PhotoSel 3mx3m backdrop stand with 3mx3m muslin backdrops. Elinchrom D-Lite 4 it studio lights, some big-ass 110cm reflector. Unlimited German Models

ShootMeAlready

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2014, 04:34:57 PM »
I've been looking rather hard at the issue of what would be a complement to my 70D.
The 6D is great camera if you only do stills, it wins in low light and light better AF over the 5DII  but canon lamed it, so its only a 720p raw video. The 6D wont do continuous 2K in crop, its lamed to 720p.
I will use my 70D for 60p raw 720p, so all I get from the 6D is low light.
The 5DII does not get you video 60fps, but again I think 70D is better choice anyways because its AF is far more useful for video or action shots.

I see great value in the 5DMII, as its not hard to find for $1K used in good shape. 
1. It does 1856x1004 or 1856x1044 (crop) raw continuous (near 1080p options).
2. It does a few things slighlty better than a 70D: low light, richer bokeh, richer colour tone. 
3. It can use many aps-c lenses in crop mode.  Huge savings there.
On that note I think of a FF as mainly a prime lens beast anyways.  Its seems if you need reach then shoot aps-c.
4. It does 2K raw video continuous. The kicker here is the 3X crop, Tokina 11-16mm & Sigma 18-35, 50mm are most useful.
5. With the faster CF reader, you can play around to try out anamorphic, and higher bit rates.   

So that's my take. If you want publishable stills get a 6D, if you want raw video the 5DMII is a great accompaniment to a 70D.
The 5DMII by itself comes up short for video, slow-mo 30fps, and its AF is slower.     
If I could only afford one, probably I'ld get the 70D, its the best all round camera of the three.   
T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

ShootMeAlready

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2014, 03:19:46 AM »
Apparently Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 works even without a crop on a FF!
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53507819

http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/sigma-18-35-1-8/4  ~ Least vignette is 35mm, f8.

"usable from a range 28mm to 35mm, no problem. You get some vignetting but still usable, and a 35mm is where I use it the most and vignetting is very low."
link:    blackandwhite.mx  ~ "pretty much every wide angle shot is made with this lens on a 6D."

So lets see
Tokina 11-16mm at 16mm Philip Bloom Likes
Sigma 18-35mm at 35, is useful on a 6D.
So if you add a nifty 50 and a canon 85 1.8, all rather affordable fast glass, you can start off with a decent set of portrait lengths.
Now if only someone can confirm a Sigma 50-150mm at 135mm, then you would have all the significant focal lengths for UWA,WA, and Portraiture.
T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

ShootMeAlready

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2014, 03:34:49 AM »
Looks like sigma 50-150mm has been tested on a FF, and it is most useful 50-100mm, f4.
It seems that 100mm is the best of three tested. 

http://www.lenstip.com/364.8-Lens_review-Sigma_50-150_mm_f_2.8_APO_EX_DC_OS_HSM_Vignetting.html

Now here it is used on a Nikon full frame at 122mm, with no noticable issues.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/37956963


T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

ShootMeAlready

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2014, 03:38:21 AM »
The Tokina 11-16mm 2.8 yes it fits/shoots.  16mm works no crop.  It works full range on 3X crop mode.

The Tamron 17-50 2.8 VC yes it fits/shoots.  Interested to see if full range works on 3X crop mode?

The Sigma 30 1.4 Art, yes it fits/shoots. Vignettes on FF.  Works on 3X crop. 
** Edit appears to not work on FF no crop, **

The Sigma 18-35 1.8 is yes it fits/shoots. 35mm works no crop with distortion.  It works full range works on 3X crop mode.
** Edit: Slight vignette at 35mm on FF no crop, very usable at f8. http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/sigma-18-35-1-8/4

The Sigma 50-150mm 2.8 yes it fits/shoots.  Maintains vignette all focal lengths with no crop.  It works full range on 3X crop mode.

So using aps-c quality zooms, you can cover off 16mm f2.8 with no crop.  Slight vignette on a 35mm at f1.8 (which is very sharp at f2).  Not bad freebies.

The third party zooms, generally work with 3X crop mode on FF. Not a bad way to ease into a FF by saving $$$.
T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

ShootMeAlready

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2014, 05:25:59 PM »
I thought to bump my own thread... anyone got a Tamron 17-50 2.8 VC they can test on a FF, lets see if it works at any focal lengths?
T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

HondaATC

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2014, 02:20:20 PM »
The Canon 10-22 will work with the removal of the back lens plastic block to keep the shutter from hitting it, and you can't go any wider than about 13-14mm from what I recall. Just google "10-22 on full frame" or 10-22 on 5d and you'll find a couple of other forum threads where guys have done it.

kitor

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2015, 02:37:00 PM »
I've done similar mod with kit 18-55 lens connected to FF. It works from approx 20mm without hitting mirror, and covers almost full frame (rounded edges) on 18mm. But I'm using it with old analog EOS 650 (even AF works  :o ) so I can't check crop mode.
Too many Canon cameras.

kgv5

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2015, 03:47:23 PM »
I had the tokina 11-16 on my 5d3 with raw. It was usable for me at 14,5 (without any filter, some vignette but usable) to 16mm (ok even with filter). It is important that In crop mode image is acceptable on 16mm but unfortunatelly in 11mm it is not IMO due to the fact, that 3x crop when  is not exactly in the sensor centre, there is no vignette, you can get wide angle but especially with resolution higher than 1080p image distortion on the one side is much much bigger than on the other (everything is stretched on the one side). I asked devs is it possible to fix this but unfortunatelly it is not. I have seen some topic with very interesting physical lens modification to work with this issue.
THis is the topic about it:

http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9244.msg93233#msg93233
www.pilotmovies.pl   5D Mark III, 6D, 550D

ShootMeAlready

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2015, 05:37:24 AM »
I recall when I put a Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 on a 5DII that at 35mm there was distortion.  Did not recall if one side or both. 
It works but I guess it would be better to LR it, and lens correct to confirm its recoverable.

 
T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

Danne

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2015, 09:30:19 AM »
I use a sigma 8-16mm aps-c for my 5d mark 3 to obtain around 21mm in 3 x mode. I had to mod the bayonet to get closer to centre spot since wide angles will suffer from a distorted perspective otherwise. Check it out.

Modded 8-16mm
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12796.msg127357#msg127357

The dynamic range you get from shooting dual iso in 3x mode is quite amazing.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12796.0

ShootMeAlready

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2015, 07:08:03 PM »
Danne, couldn't help but notice that you linked a thread with 2,5K video on I assume mostly 5DIII.

Rainless seems to think the GH4 is the 4K champ, and that it kicks the 5DIII.

Have you any comparison videos between 5DIII at 2.5K dual iso and a GH4 4K, both cropped to 1080p?

Would be curious to see just how sharp 5DIII can get.
T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

Danne

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2015, 07:43:41 PM »
I did some 4k in 15 fps a long time ago. Interpolated back to 24fps with twixtor. Very big files.
2, 5k I,d say is sweet spot with 5D mark 3. It is very sharp and dynamic range is among the best.
About gh4 I,ve seen some interesting tests at cinema5d. From the test I, d personally would choose both 5d mark 3 and sony A7s and black magic before I, d pick a gh4. Everyone can choose what suits them best :)

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2015, 08:59:07 AM »
Indeed point taken @Danne!

2.5k is just absolutely marvelous and definitely a sweet spot for the 5D3...

Good call and now I'm curious to try this 10 2.8 sigma that I borrowed from work... Not sure if it's worth getting that modified without risking myself in getting fired (if I were to break it)??

LoL
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Danne

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2015, 09:46:58 AM »
Cool. Got a sigma 10-20 f3, 5 with a defect iris which I modded as well. All you need is an extra brass mount to modify. I keep the original parts in a box for the future :).

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: APS-C glass that works on FF raw crop mode
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2015, 07:30:30 PM »
That's cool  :)  however I don't think it'll be such a good idea to fiddle with this one... maybe I'll find myself a used one on Craigslist and then try your method on it one of these days.

Maybe after when I get my bonus $ from work or something...

lol
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