Author Topic: from raw to 4k  (Read 7637 times)

stagsy

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from raw to 4k
« on: August 26, 2014, 04:58:57 PM »
Searched and googled and searched some more but found surprisingly little out there as how to get from 1920 x 1080 raws to 4k (4096 x 2160).
Upscaling has been mentioned a couple of times but is it as simple as interpolating in Photoshop to get to 4k?

Yes, I am new to this and thanks in advance for any pointers and for ML

PressureFM

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Re: from raw to 4k
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2014, 06:26:03 PM »
Why would you upscale 1080p to 2160p?

stagsy

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Re: from raw to 4k
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2014, 06:42:12 PM »
To get a 4k video? i.e. 4096 x 2160

Midphase

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Re: from raw to 4k
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2014, 07:38:58 PM »
Understanding that:

1. Uprezzing will soften your final image, and you're effectively cheating by creating a resolution that is largely made up of interpolated pixels.

2. Most if not all people who watch your work will not be able to play it back at 4K resolution, nor will their monitors display it as such.

3. Most digital projectors in film festivals are only 2K, and they will do a reasonably decent job at uprezzing your 1080p footage.


Your best option for exporting to 4K from 1080p footage IMHO would be to use Resolve 11. Resolve upscales with the best of them, and it's quite fast at doing so, particularly if you have a good GPU.

P.S.

I feel like I should add that ML raw can't do 4K natively. The cards and the CPU are simply not fast enough to get you anything more than maybe a handful of frames at that resolution (using Crop Mode).

lostfeliz

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Re: from raw to 4k
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2014, 08:31:40 PM »
If you uprez straight from the RAW data, there is actually 4 pixels for every 1 debayered pixel. Is it possible that there are algorithms that can get a sharper more accurate uprez because of that?

stagsy

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Re: from raw to 4k
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2014, 09:02:26 PM »
Thanks for the replies.

So a 5D Mk 3 cannot produce 4k video with ML natively nor in post via interpolating due to quality loss - but it can produce raw footage which compares with 4k? For some reason I was under the impression that 4k had become a feasible option.
This chap thinks it is but I don't know how he got his 2k files to start with.

Whilst there is a limit to upsizing where image quality begins to degrade and it sounds like 4k is a stretch too far, upsizing isn't cheating, it's just upsizing.
Not using video for public viewing nor film festivals.

Thanks for the Resolve 1.1 heads up. How does it compare with using Camera Raw and Photoshop. Would you say it has better algorithms for interpolating?

stagsy

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Re: from raw to 4k
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2014, 09:03:04 PM »

Midphase

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Re: from raw to 4k
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2014, 11:37:49 PM »
You can get 2K-ish footage by using Crop Mode. IMHO not worth the hassle that crop mode brings for just a wee bit more resolution.

If you want true 4K, get yourself a Blackmagic or a GH4, however IMHO 4K is not practical and will not be practical for at least another couple of years. No point in releasing 4K footage if nobody can watch it, and if your film is going wide theatrical...well, in that case you shouldn't be shooting it on a hacked camera in the first place.

Having said that, even the Alexa is not 4K, and most of the films that you see in theaters shot on the Alexa were uprezzed up to 4K in post (for no apparent reason).

stagsy

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Re: from raw to 4k
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 09:23:59 AM »
So how do you get 2k-ish footage in crop mode?

chmee

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Re: from raw to 4k
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 09:45:39 AM »
@Midphase
for german cinemas i can say, about 95% of all playouts are still 2K. its a bubble, the consumer-producing companies needed, after 3d died back into a gadget without financial advantages. nonetheless 4k-footage has advantages, but the playout is one of the weakest.. if someone's interested in a resolution-selftest, here we go..

regards chmee

Midphase

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Re: from raw to 4k
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 08:16:06 PM »
"So how do you get 2k-ish footage in crop mode?"

Read the instructions?  :D

Audionut

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Re: from raw to 4k
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2014, 01:41:15 AM »
8k has its advantages too  :P

Resampling some fixed amount of pixels, to some larger amount of pixels is almost always useless, at best.  I say almost, because there are cases where you can defeat some other resampling algorithm, say in your tv, with a much better algorithm. 

The advantages of higher pixel content (captured content, not resampled), is when you are viewing on large diameter screens, and you like to maintain a FOV of 30 degres or more.  THX actually recommends a 40 degree FOV, but unless you have a dedicated theatre, you'll be practically sitting on top of the tv, and you're eyes will be able to resolve more detail then the content being viewed.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_HDTV_viewing_distance

budafilms

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Re: from raw to 4k
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2014, 10:34:12 AM »
I do full length movies, for independent festival as Sundance, Toronto, NY Film Festivals and you can send your footage, even at 720 x 480. For good quality it's enough sent at 1280 x 720. So you can crop from 1920x1080.

(I saw material did it with h264 too).

The only advantages today with 4K it's the crop, a little of digital panning, and nothing else. But... If your focus are perfect.
For a perfect focus, very sharp image, you need a very good lens like Canon L or Zeiss compact Prime.

Why think to get 4K? More than this, your skill filming and directing could be more important than RAW or H264.

4k It's a marketing invention. Believe me. I'm on the wild side. Shooting and shooting al the f... day. with a 5D ML.

Enjoy!