Author Topic: MLV/REC simpler status indicator  (Read 8095 times)

stevefal

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MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« on: July 30, 2014, 07:14:27 PM »
TLDR:

- remove "None" MLV record status mode
- remove "Icon" MLV status mode and display clip time and time remaining in LVINFO (design TBD)
- put all internal info to "Debug" mode, and make it an independent toggle that splatters LV as today

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Currently MLVREC "Icon" mode displays an icon and three lines of text to indicate status. I think two of the lines are not useful in practice - bitrate and idle time. Also, the icon and text are drawn over the video image, encroaching on composition space. LVINFO is designed for status information.

ref: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8539.msg80890

The "None" status mode is worthless. Correct my if I'm wrong, but I can't imagine anyone wanting their camera recording with no indication of the fact.

This suggestion is to simplify display by removing unnecessary information in the normal case, and moving it out of the way. It also add the important "time remaining" feature, which is hopefully possible.

Finally it simplifies the menu by removing any options besides "Debug" which is for developers/troubleshooting.
Steve Falcon

jimmyD30

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 07:51:11 PM »
I like the comfort level bit-rate and idle time give me while I'm shooting, but as long as status is green, everything is Ok, so like you say, less important than remaining time/space (turn on for debuging would be good though).

dmilligan

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 08:56:04 PM »
FYI, everyone who records GD off can't really use the red top bar indicator for raw :)

stevefal

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 09:04:21 PM »
Do people really need/want to do that? I can't imagine shooting RAW video without exposure etc info on screen.
Steve Falcon

stevefal

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 09:05:48 PM »
I like the comfort level bit-rate and idle time give me while I'm shooting, but as long as status is green, everything is Ok, so like you say, less important than remaining time/space (turn on for debuging would be good though).

I would suggest something like Canon does, namely display an indicator only if buffering is problematic. You may have never seen it because you should not (unless you have a slow card). Splattering text would be good enough I think, because it is abnormal operation and should be noticeable and explicit.

"Slow card: maximum speed reached"      (say, 0.5% idle time)
"Slow card: <n> frames dropped"
Steve Falcon

dmilligan

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2014, 09:13:19 PM »
Do people really need/want to do that? I can't imagine shooting RAW video without exposure etc info on screen.

Have you ever tried to record raw with an older camera?

stevefal

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 09:27:44 PM »
GD OFF turning LVINFO off seems like a blunt instrument. I can understand how zebras, wfm, etc would necessarily be taxing. But the MLV rec indicator is more chatty than LVINFO, so it's counterintuitive to me that LVINFO should break the camel's back. Maybe there's an architectural solution.
Steve Falcon

jimmyD30

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2014, 09:29:57 PM »
I would suggest something like Canon does, namely display an indicator only if buffering is problematic. You may have never seen it because you should not (unless you have a slow card). Splattering text would be good enough I think, because it is abnormal operation and should be noticeable and explicit.

"Slow card: maximum speed reached"      (say, 0.5% idle time)
"Slow card: <n> frames dropped"

I have seen the Canon buffering, when accidentally shooting ALL-I to the slow SD card I have ML installed on (forgetting to put fast CF in), if I remember it's vertical and on the right side of the LCD screen.

That's not a bad idea, just use colored status if all is mostly well, then additional info./warning as it becomes a concern.

@dmilligan
I personally have shot raw on a lesser camera, the 650D, and that's actually where I got used to relying upon the bit-rate and idle time, because you're really threading a needle when trying to record continuous raw 720p@24fps on that camera.


stevefal

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2014, 09:33:31 PM »
I personally have shot raw on a lesser camera, the 650D, and that's actually where I got used to relying upon the bit-rate and idle time, because you're really threading a needle when trying to record continuous raw 720p@24fps on that camera

Do you turn off Global Draw when you do that?
Steve Falcon

jimmyD30

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2014, 09:37:07 PM »
No, but just about everything else is!  ;)

Only using GD for framing, all other niceties turned off, but MLV info is on :)

No sound though >:(

stevefal

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2014, 09:40:48 PM »
When you say framing do you mean bitmap cropmarks? Do you use/need the top/bottom info bars?
Steve Falcon

jimmyD30

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2014, 10:15:39 PM »
It's been a while for me with that camera, but for sure I either used bitmap crops marks or the framing provided by mlv record.

I do use the info bars, top mostly for sound level, bottom mostly for exposure values.

MA Visuals

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2014, 11:05:07 PM »
Do people really need/want to do that? I can't imagine shooting RAW video without exposure etc info on screen.

I turn off GD for frame rates greater than 24.  I find that even with zebras, histo, etc turned off, I get more reliable/consistent performance with it off at higher frame rates which I use a lot.  I agree that the bitrate and idle time are not necessary since the icon color changes are sufficient.

Having the record icon on screen in a minimal way appeals to me simply because of the way I record using an hdmi monitor.  Due to overlays not lining up properly, I scale my hdmi monitor so that the entire video window takes up the whole screen, pushing the overlays off screen.  I need the record icon displayed within this view.  Now, when/if hdmi overlay issues are ever sorted out, I'm sure I would prefer the approach raw_rec uses with the record indicator on the top info bar.

Ideally, both mlv and raw modules would be more consistent with respect to presentation and give the user an option to display the record icon in either the top menu bar or in the main video window.

stevefal

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2014, 02:22:14 AM »
If I can summarize your preference, you'd like to have HDMI overlays fixed and rec status in the top bar. You'd want status in the picture only if it was required for higher FPS, or if HDMI overlays are not fixed.
Steve Falcon

MA Visuals

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2014, 05:17:07 AM »
you'd like to have HDMI overlays fixed and rec status in the top bar.

Yes... hopefully the image dumps being collected will eventually yield some good news on that front.


You'd want status in the picture only if it was required for higher FPS, or if HDMI overlays are not fixed.

GD needs to be turned off in order to maintain recording at higher fps, so the rec icon within the picture is needed.  If HDMI overlay issues get resolved, with GD turned off, it would be best to move the rec status as high up on the display as possible.


tuckertota

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Re: MLV/REC simpler status indicator
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2015, 11:45:27 PM »
Was there ever any update on this? I would prefer to only see the colored icon and record time. Don't need bitrate/idle time, why not just leave that stuff in debug? Is there a reason not to simply create a new icon/time option?