Author Topic: Crop Mode - framing  (Read 14031 times)

mimbik

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Crop Mode - framing
« on: July 29, 2014, 09:38:04 AM »
Hello everyone,

There is lot of information about ML on the internet but I can not find the simplest answer to my question and a deep review.
As 1920x1080+  is only available in Crop Mode (x5 etc) in all of the canon cameras, I see that shooting only in this mode is really sensible.
But... How about framing?  I own Canon 7D and I can not shot with Global Draw on. Completely useless. I need to switch off the global draw and then I can record up to 2.5K.  Of course I can not see properly what I am shooting. 

Is it same with Field Monitor? I can not check this by my own. I know that it is possible to add custom framing before shooting and then switch to Crop mode but I think that this is the fundamental feature that distinguish ML as a RAW toy and professional camera.


jimmyD30

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2014, 01:13:02 PM »
Professional cinematographers frame their monitors/LCDs with tape all the time and have been doing so for many years, use painters blue tape for easy removal or clear tape to see overlays when Global Draw is turned on.

mimbik

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2014, 01:17:37 PM »
Using a tape is not a problem. I would like to stick it but it is a completely different problem. In crop mode we see LARGER image, there is some lost info on the left and right side. Simply, the LCD on the camera is too small. We see only part of the image. Not 100% without framing but something like 200%.

jimmyD30

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2014, 01:47:46 PM »
Ok, thank you for clearing that up. I always have GD on, so I didn't realize when you have it off and are using width resolutions greater than 1920 that the scene framing is larger than the LCD view :(

mimbik

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2014, 03:44:40 PM »
Hmm. That sounds strange. When I have Global Draw on, I can shot only 1728. When in crop, it hangs. Every frame is pink and corrupted, camera is sluggish during record. I have CF x1000...
Crazy.

mimbik

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2014, 04:55:21 PM »
Here is the same topic
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7401.0

And I don't know why there is [ALREADY DONE], because this problem is not solved!!

LRF

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2014, 06:15:26 PM »
This is how it looks in my case:



Actual picture:


mlv, Nightly.2014Jul16.5D3123, GD On
Screenshots from different clips, but same framing.

a1ex

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2014, 06:55:33 PM »
If you move the focus box to the left, the framing will be at least centered.

If you enable "Focus Box Settings - Snap points - Center to x5 RAW", you will see a framing guide in the 1x mode, and it will center the focus box on the crop-mode raw buffer (so you'll get centered preview even at max resolution).

If you enable Global Draw, you will get a correct framing, but low-resolution. You can turn it off while recording.

If all these things are "completely useless", feel free to implement something better.

Danne

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2014, 07:28:31 PM »
Global draw in conjunction with display preset is how I use it. One button toggle back and forth between global draw on and off. . Works very well. Also during filming.
Tried the snap point setting center to x5 raw but it doesn, t give me a centered view in x5 mode. At least not in 2560x1090 on my 5d mark 3. Is it supposed to snap to centre of the raw x5 zoom without having to move the box manually to the left?
Amazing there, s still more settings to tweak on this.

a1ex

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2014, 07:33:40 PM »
Works, just tried.

Danne

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2014, 07:57:09 PM »
It worked. Had to be in 5x zoom and then press the box. Thank you!

MacawDidi

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2014, 12:45:57 PM »
If you move the focus box to the left, the framing will be at least centered.

If you enable "Focus Box Settings - Snap points - Center to x5 RAW", you will see a framing guide in the 1x mode, and it will center the focus box on the crop-mode raw buffer (so you'll get centered preview even at max resolution).

If you enable Global Draw, you will get a correct framing, but low-resolution. You can turn it off while recording.

If all these things are "completely useless", feel free to implement something better.

Hi Alex, thanks for these tips! I finally know how to snap to centre the focus box in crop mode.

But how does one output what I see on GD mode (i.e the accurate framing) thru the HDMI port into an ext EVF? (I started a thread on this not know this thread existed sorry). I am using 5DMk II. Can it be done or it is technically not possible to implement?

My thread is here, my EVF shows the normal LV view even when GD is on:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?reportsent;topic=13728.msg132695#msg132695


Thanks for your time.

a1ex

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2014, 12:49:52 PM »
Only if you use the HDMI monitor in low resolution (VGA mode).

MacawDidi

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2014, 04:10:24 AM »
Thanks A1ex!

Tried Force-HDMI VGA but seem to have no effect on how my EVF displays it. So to conclude no workarounds possible huh except an EVF that actually supports VGA 640x480 display (a search on ebay found even the cheapest ones native resolution is 800x480 which is the same as mine, and Zacuto's)? Hope the pros on this forum who are using Mk II for paid work could chime in with their experience?

a1ex

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 08:31:11 AM »
Right, looks like it's not implemented. But, if I remember correctly, in HDMI VGA mode, the display resolution is identical to the one used with the built-in LCD.

That makes it a very easy coding task for those interested.

MacawDidi

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2014, 11:12:54 AM »
Hi A1ex, thanks for replying. Just tested earlier, Force-HDMI works in non crop mode, but no effect in crop mode. May I and how do send a feature request (never participated in such development before, sorry for asking).

Thanks for everyone's time...

(at least in the build I am using: Feb16 2014 Build)

a1ex

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2014, 09:57:38 PM »
Just tested earlier, Force-HDMI works in non crop mode, but no effect in crop mode.

You mean, in crop mode, with HDMI-VGA enabled, the preview resolution on the external monitor is always 1920x1080?!

MacawDidi

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2014, 03:23:53 AM »
Hi A1ex, sorry for the confusion, I just did further testing... :-X

In both crop and non crop mode:

1) When activating LV with Force-HDMI = "off", EVF prompts "1080i", if I switch Force-HDMI to "on" now, my EVF blacks out and then comes on again and prompts "480p". But if I switch back to "off", no effect, the display remains as it is.

2) If Force-HDMI is already on before LV is activated, switching it to "off" after LV is activated does not have any effect (i.e remain as 480p)

3) Each time after exiting LV, and re-activating it, the current Force-HDMI setting will show correctly (whether 480p or 1080i)

Hope that is what you needed to know. I will do further testing if required gotta rush for work now.

I have yet to do any framing accuracy tests, but whether 480p or 1080i in my EVF, the framing looks the same (wrong) just that the 480p version is shown in a smaller box, and there is still colour in the display versus the gray display in the Canon LCD because ML grayscale preview is on.

reddeercity

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2014, 04:27:33 AM »
If you want acute framing in Crop mode press the half shutter button at lest for liveview.
Not sure if it work with HDMI thou, and if you set liveview preview to "auto" the framing
will be In color. Work while recording raw video at the same time.

MacawDidi

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2014, 02:32:21 PM »
If you want acute framing in Crop mode press the half shutter button at lest for liveview.
Not sure if it work with HDMI thou, and if you set liveview preview to "auto" the framing
will be In color. Work while recording raw video at the same time.

Hi,

Thanks for the tip. By pressing half shutter do you mean for the purpose of clearing overlays? (cos I read in the user guide that half shutter triggers different things depending on how you set it).

Anyway, I tried setting Clear Overlays to "always", and in that mode the display on Canon LCD is equivalent to if GD ML grayscale mode is not turned on, which means to say the framing I see on Canon LCD is already wrong (narrower than what is recorded).

Also, I tested the framing in EVF for both Force-HDMI set to "on" or "off" - for both, the framing is wrong, 480p mode just shows a smaller box, 1080i shows a bigger one that's all.

Lastly I repeated the same test using the last 5DMkII build 08 Oct 2014 -same results.

Hope it gets fixed one day cos framing is oh so impt!  :)

MacawDidi

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Re: Crop Mode AND Non crop mode - framing
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2014, 02:16:18 PM »
Tested in non-crop mode as well, framing seems to be inaccurate too. Grey corner markings demarcate the boundaries of what I see in LV in ML grayscale preview mode, the recorded footage reveals more vertical resolution:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B36WcmC25DT8ZElmVUs0VDlmR28/view?usp=sharing

Pressing half shutter only makes it appear in colour and high resolution than the pixelated grayscale preview, framing is not affected.

(Feb162014 Build)

kidfob

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Re: Crop Mode - framing
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2016, 06:08:53 PM »
Hi all. I hate to bump an old thread. I just wanted to see if anyone found a solution for monitoring while shooting continuous in 2.5k crop mode.

I've had to use hacked liveview in order to shoot continuously, but that basically turns freezes the lcd and I can't really see what I'm filming.

Is there any way around this while still shooting continuous?

Thanks