Thinking about "downgrading" 5D3 > 6D

[Audionut]

I originally got the 5D3 for the AF and focus points.  But I don't seem to use the AF these days (not all the fancy AF stuff anyway), and I'm better at tracking with just one focus point.  I'll probably miss the sheer number of AF points, but I expect to have to trade off something.  I don't do video, and plan on getting more active in low light photography (astro), my main imaging is portrait, so as far as I can tell, the pros vs cons look like.

Pros

• I'll come out ahead with $
• Lower banding noise
• Probably better thermal noise
• Better DR (0.5EV @ ISO 100), the lower banding noise probably increases this closer to 1EV.  With iso_research and dual_iso, I expect to gain 1 full stop of DR.
• Better low light AF ability
• Full stop of useful ISO (3200 vs 6400)
• Fresh shutter count (currently at 65K)

Cons

• Less AF points
• Might take some time getting used to only 97% viewfinder coverage again

I don't spray and pray, so continuous shooting speed is irrelevant.
ML gains an active 6D user/mini dev, a1ex loses an active 5D3 tester.

I have a Sigma 35/1.4 which is a focal length I just don't seem to use.  And when I do use it, I'm doing panos with it anyway.  So with the sale of this, and the $ from 5D3 > 6D, I can get some good wide angle glass.

The 6D has AFMA which I find important. 

Anything I am missing?

[Levas]

Probably not that important for most people, but:

-The 6d has (only) one memory card slot, and it's for SD memory cards
-Slightly smaller body

[Levas]

So with the sale of this, and the $ from 5D3 > 6D, I can get some good wide angle glass.

Already got some wide angle glass in mind ?
I have the Samyang 14mm F2.8 (no autofocus and aperture is controlled on lens).
Really sharp, almost no chroma, it does however have some mustache distorting...

And with astrophotography, do you mean taking multiple long exposures on tracking mounts etc. ?
Or do you mean wide-angle-lens sky view for time-lapse of stars moving ?

[nikfreak]

My post may be not really helpful to make a decision. I can't really say much about 6D at all as I am a new 6d and also Canon user. But I am really impressed with the performance of the 6D. I got a smile on my face once I have seen first OoC pictures of it. This one has a real awesome lowlight performance. Center focus point really is awesome at lowlight. Compared to what I am used to use (Nikon D90 / D500 / D7100) the 6D is a monster. Pictures taken at night look like they have been taken at dusk / dawn. Would you be able to borrow the 6D for a day or a weekend? This way you could decide on your own if it's worth. I would really be happy if someone like you would join the 6d contributors. I guess this would help a lot. Ofc to invest in lenses with the xtra money earned by selling your mk3 is best as the loss in invested value for lenses is low once sold again.

[Audionut]

The slightly smaller body is actually a pro for me.
Haven't looked to hard at lenses yet, but the Samyang 14mm is one I've heard nothing but positive feedback from.



Can't borrow a 6D, but I read enough reviews.  Not changing brands, so any small changes between bodies should be a non-issue.

[jimmyD30]

You say you're not doing much video, so this shouldn't matter to you, but the write data rate on the 6D is only 40MBps, while it's near 100MBps for the 5DM3, mostly matters for raw video.

[lourenco]

I have the 5D3 and 6D.  If you every want to shoot sports as well still doing portraits, you may want to consider keeping your 5D3.  You can record raw to cf card and raw or jpg as a backup to the sd card.  I like the idea of having a backup if the main card fails on a paid shoot.

My second shooter misses some shots at night with the 6D.  The 5D3 always locks on given I am able to use the 9 center cross type points and let it select which one it wants to use. 

This is a great example for me being black car at night. I would not trust my helper with my 6D to try to get this shot. The car was moving up to the line. I started see it shooting flames on the side exhaust. I took three quick shots and  I was able to capture this. 



I shoot in raw, and I have not really notice the 6D really being that much better for noise compared to the 5D3. If there is a different, it looks to be a small difference for me. I am thinking the 6d saves the jpg in the camera with less noise than compared to raw. For me raw noise different is so small, I cannot really notice the difference.  I am shooting 3200 iso at night. 200-400 iso during the day. Only at 100 iso with my studio lights for product shots.

I also like the higher sync speed for my studio lights with the 5D3.  1/200 is great. I wish I had the money for the 1DX to be at 1/250.  The shot below is with my 5D3 using the pocket wizard flex ttl5 with hyper sync with my studio lights.  It takes alot of light to over power the sun when trying to shoot larger objects like cars. I believe this was 1/500 for the shutter speed. The concern with slower sync speed on the 6D is more of the flash it cut off by the shutter. I would have to be at a slower shutter speed. I need to be at least 1/320 slower shutter, but given the car is moving I cannot do that, as it would show too much motion blur. 

[Levas]

No doubt the 5d3 has the better autofocus system for sports.

But in the above examples I don't see a reason why you should miss those shots with a 6d.
The cars are very predictable, they will take off in a straight line.
If you set the 6d to center point focus only and in servo mode, it should do fine.
The center point of the 6d is said to be more sensitive in low light then the 5d3.

[Audionut]

My understanding is that the 6D will find focus down to -3 EV, while the 5D3 will get down to -2 EV (at best).  There's no doubt, the 6D will continue to find focus in darker environments then the 5D3.

In the above example of the black car, the issue with the 6D (if you can call it an issue), is that only using the center AF point, it needs to be over a contrast (the white sticker or whatever), and if you simply tried to focus off a door panel or the hood, it's going to struggle.  The other focus points on the 6D are probably to far from center, and you're likely to snatch focus at some unwanted spot.

The 5D3 using the 9 center points (so you're still getting focus in the middle of the frame), doesn't need pinpoint accuracy.  If you're close enough, 1 of these 9 points will find a contrast to lock onto.

I probably will want to shoot some sort of sports (I have kids), but this is a low priority, and the situations are likely to be in daylight where trying to pinpoint the focus point on a contrast will be a non-issue.  You're points are valid lourenco, but they won't be a concern for the photography I am targeting.  Thanks for taking the time for a detailed response.

edit:  Also, the differences in noise between both will only be apparent around 7 EV or more from sensor saturation.  From the midtones and brighter, the differences will be nothing as you are limited by photon noise.

6D vs 5D3 photo mode.


In movie mode, the difference is even greater.


http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/evaluation-canon-6d/index.html

But even more impressive than the high signal and low read noise, is the far better control of pattern noise. The 6D sensor performs well ahead of the 1DX at low ISO, similar to that for the 1DX at moderate to high ISOs, but the 1DX pulls slightly ahead at very high ISOs. The pattern noise of the 6D is overall the lowest I have measured for any Canon camera.

https://theory.uchicago.edu/~ejm/pix/20d/tests/noise/index.html#patternnoise

Vertical banding largely disappears in this example, leaving some variable banding noise in the horizontal direction, as well as a homogeneous (white) component of read noise; the width of the read noise histogram decreases by about 20%. This gives an indication of how visually disruptive pattern noise can be -- even though the fixed pattern noise is only about 20% of the overall noise, it is quite apparent because our perception is adapted to picking out patterns, finding edges, etc.

[Audionut]

And with astrophotography, do you mean taking multiple long exposures on tracking mounts etc. ?
Or do you mean wide-angle-lens sky view for time-lapse of stars moving ?

Both.  Tracking with a telescope, and wide angle shots.  Although I'm not really into star trails, more just being able to take wide angle Milky Way shots.
I'm heading to central Australia next year.  It's pitch black sky out there.  Can't wait.

edit:  With the 14mm, I gain 1 stop in exposure from the wider focal length (exposure without star trails), but I lose 2 stops (over the 35/1.4) with aperture.  The advantage is I get to take 1 shot of the scene, rather then having to take and stitch a bunch of shots.  The vignetting on the 14mm is a bit ouch though.

[lourenco]

In the above example of the black car, the issue with the 6D (if you can call it an issue), is that only using the center AF point, it needs to be over a contrast (the white sticker or whatever), and if you simply tried to focus off a door panel or the hood, it's going to struggle.  The other focus points on the 6D are probably to far from center, and you're likely to snatch focus at some unwanted spot.

The 5D3 using the 9 center points (so you're still getting focus in the middle of the frame), doesn't need pinpoint accuracy.  If you're close enough, 1 of these 9 points will find a contrast to lock onto.

Exactly.  Action at the track happens so fast at time is not always possible for the one center af point to be positioned correctly on a black car for the 6D to lock focus when dark outside. Once the camera is in AI servo mode the speed light on camera does not have an af assist beam either to help in the low light situation.

I have a much better understand than my helper regarding what parts of the car to point at as you noted,  but it is still much easier and quicker for the 5D3 to lock focus as you noted.  6D af points are to far a part and there is only one cross type point. 

Sometimes I have to pan to take shots. This cars front end slowly kept going up off the line.  Highest point at the tree. 
 

I do mainly 8x10 prints and some 11x14 and 16x20 prints.  I never had a customer complain about a noisy picture even at 3200 iso. A little bit a noise reduction fixes that. That is a non issue for me. 

Audionut noted about taking photos of his kids sports. I rather have a 5D3 for that given the much higher keeper rate with higher fps, which is more photos to choose from.

Astro and portrait photography I am sure the 6D will be fine. I am just saying if you ever want to shot any type of sports you want to keep the 5D3. I wish the 6D at last had two sd slots.

[Levas]

Did indeed forgot about the part that the focus point(s) do need some contrast to work with...
In that case, you're black car isn't that easy to photograph, maybe you should put on some nice little white gridlines on your paintwork  , so the camera's can focus.

[painya]

If you're interested in wide angle glass I just purchased a 24mm f1.8 Sigma. It's not the widest, but the extra couple stops do wonders for astrophotography. Hope that helps

[barepixels]

for astro, look into the Rokinon 24mm f1.4 ($500.00)

[Audionut]

I've been looking at the 24mm's, but I don't think they are a decent upgrade over the 35mm.  Not enough extra FOV, and I'll loose a bunch of sharpness. #FirstWorldProblem
Here's two I did with the 35mm on the weekend.  The moonlit one especially, I wanted lots more FOV for extra width.  These are about 6 images stitched.




At this stage, I think I prefer something like the 14mm, since it is less work needed, both in the field, and in post.  I should be able to work around the one stop of light loss.
Thanks for the suggestions guys.

[barepixels]

with the 24mm 1.4 you can capture the mikyway at iso 1600

i have the rokinon 14mm 2.8 now and its ok.  the 24mm 1.4 is on my next list.

[Levas]

@ audionut,
Wow  these pictures of the milky way look great.
I live in the Netherlands near a big city, so never did succeed in having the milky that visible.
6 pictures stitched you say, what diafragma, shutter time and iso did you need to take these ?
The 6 pictures, are they equally blend or are they added or multiplied ?

Or do you mean by stitching, really stitching as in panorama ?

[Audionut]

Yeah panorama stitching.

30 seconds - f/1.4 - ISO 1600.  15 seconds is my limit for star movement, but figured I'd shoot for another stop of light and see what the resized results would be.