PP Export has Pixelation artifacts/aliasing - Need help

Started by Kharak, July 08, 2014, 04:35:57 PM

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Kharak

Hi.

I've exported from PP before and I don't know if I missed something but now all my footage comes out with this pixelated Lines or combination of aliasing

The source files in Premiere Pro are DNxHD - 1920x1080 - 23.976 exported from AE and they are super sharp, no pixelation or aliasing, but when I export to h264 the quality dramatically drops, I have no idea why, I am very sure that I am doing exactly what I've always done when exporting h264 from Premiere.

Export settings:

h264
1920x1080
23.976
Square Pixels 1.0
Progressive
Profile: High
5.1
Target mb/s 100 and max 100 - VBR 2 pass
also tried CBR with same effect.

I am out sailing and only have a slow laptop so it's too hard for the computer to dynamic link. Usually just leads to a crash

Any ideas what might be wrong?

If need I can try and upload screenshots, but might take awhile as my connection is at 5-10 kb/s

Thank you.
once you go raw you never go back

Walter Schulz


Kharak

Not sure what you mean.

In Nvidia Control Panel, for Premiere I put Power Management on High Performance and tweaked some other options for better performance.

Do you think this has anything to do with it?
once you go raw you never go back

Walter Schulz

File -> Project Settings -> General.
Now look for "Renderer" on top
If set to "Mercury Playback Engine GPU Accelerated" you should switch to "Mercury Playback Engine Software Only" and give it a try.
Takes a lot longer to render, though.

Kharak

Thanks for your suggestion, but this did not work. It made it worse.

The rendering time was 20x times longer

Had exact same settings but the finished product has a bitrate of 820 kb/s ??

I'm really confused about all this.

Think I'll have to figure a way to get it in to AE again and render from there, just a pain with all the transitions and texts and stuff.

This can't be a hardware problem, right? I mean when AE manages to export sharp and without any aliasing.

Raw files are also 1920x1080, so there is no aliasing in original footage.

EDIT: does PP have a problem with DNxHD footage?

Running CS 6
once you go raw you never go back

Walter Schulz

Quote from: Kharak on July 09, 2014, 06:16:47 PM
The rendering time was 20x times longer
As I wrote ...
QuoteTakes a lot longer to render, though.
But software rendering is not supposed to mess up image quality.

Is there a chance to lay hand on some of your files?

Ciao
Walter

Kharak

I'd happily send you some, but my connection does not allow it. 10 kb/s will take days and I lose connection now and then

I will return home with two weeks, I don't know exactly when.

If I find a solution in the meantime, I will write here and if not I will write here also and put some files on dropbox for you

Do you mean the DNxHD files or h264 export?

I will try and upload screenshots off DNxHD source file and the h264 for comparison

Edit:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjfdt81xtz4pegm/DNxHD.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/99yxpxug1im2wkj/h264%20Aliasing.jpg?m=

These two illustrate the problem better:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyhnq7xkvt4u8ts/Gallar%C3%AD%20DNxHD.jpg DNxHD

https://www.dropbox.com/s/76nbqlxgsr6vd35/Gallar%C3%AD%20h264.jpg h264


Not a frame to frame comparison, cause the h264 export has been cut, but no matter, the DNxHD has none of the aliasing.

Download the jpeg and zoom in and you see it's at a specific interval that you see these lines pass throughout the entire image.
once you go raw you never go back

Filmmaking_Dude

It would seem like there's a pixel aspect ratio issue. But it's obviously not as your render settings state that.

You are not using the render files on export?


Kharak

Quote from: Filmmaking_Dude on July 11, 2014, 06:32:03 PM
You are not using the render files on export?

Not sure what you mean about this?

I think we're getting closer to a solution here or atleast to what the problem might be.

The DNxHD file is 1920x1080 cause thats the only resolution you can render out from the AVID DNxHD Codec (free one that is), the RAW footage is 1920x872 so it is stretched when looking at the DNxHD file and I have to put in 2:20.1 aspect ratio in order to watch it properly in my player. I wrote in an earlier post 1920x1080, that was not true I meant to write that it was not upscaled or anything, but the PP project is 1920x872 and is rendered out the same and is perfect in premiere. I suppose it is actually "upscaled" because it is stretched vertically.

I am recording in 1920x872 because I started this project on my 5D MK II more than a year ago, 2 months ago I upgraded to MK III. The MK II can not record 16:9 continuously without dropping resolution quite low so I decided to stick to max resolution possible with continues recording and I do also like wider aspect ratios more than TV 16:9.

So I am suspecting that PP has a problem with this 2:20.1 aspect ratio that is stretched to 1920x1080 and then re-squeezed ?
once you go raw you never go back

Luiz Roberto dos Santos

What is your bitrate settings? Try to put CBR 20Mb/s... I don't think it will generate a file with much of blocks, but, if it do, try to export directly with command line x264. If you get the same result, check your hardware.

Kharak

Quote from: Luiz Roberto dos Santos on July 11, 2014, 08:53:01 PM
What is your bitrate settings? Try to put CBR 20Mb/s... I don't think it will generate a file with much of blocks, but, if it do, try to export directly with command line x264. If you get the same result, check your hardware.

Sorry, but what is this file you embedded in "x264" ?

I have a crap connection and don't want to waste time downloading a 7.8 mb file if its not to any use?

And yes I'll try that.
once you go raw you never go back

Luiz Roberto dos Santos

This is binaries compiled from Videolan (developers of x264 encoder). I send a direct link to easy your life.

http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/x264/binaries/win64/

Open terminal and run this file inside. See help (type --help or --full-help), and then, set the parameters and file you will want do encode.
Export with Lagarith from Premiere and then encode, I suggest.

Kharak

Thanks for easing my life, this connection is killing me

I am downloading, will take some time.

Tried CBR 20 Mb/s and it had the same result.
once you go raw you never go back

Filmmaking_Dude

Quote from: Kharak on July 11, 2014, 08:50:31 PM
The DNxHD file is 1920x1080 cause thats the only resolution you can render out from the AVID DNxHD Codec (free one that is), the RAW footage is 1920x872 so it is stretched when looking at the DNxHD file and I have to put in 2:20.1 aspect ratio in order to watch it properly in my player. I wrote in an earlier post 1920x1080, that was not true I meant to write that it was not upscaled or anything, but the PP project is 1920x872 and is rendered out the same and is perfect in premiere. I suppose it is actually "upscaled" because it is stretched vertically.

So I am suspecting that PP has a problem with this 2:20.1 aspect ratio that is stretched to 1920x1080 and then re-squeezed ?

I think your right that the issue might be you squeezing the files when exporting from After Effects and then desqueezing in Premiere. What I would suggest for you to do is when exporting from After Effects make the comps size 1920x1080 and let the DNxHD files have the black bars. Then you are not stretching anything and it might solve your issue of aliasing. In Premiere the files should fit well into a 1920x1080 or a 1920x872 sequence.

Quote from: Filmmaking_Dude on July 11, 2014, 06:32:03 PM
You are not using the render files on export?

What I'm asking is if you are using preview files in the final export cause those aren't that good quality and I wouldn't recommend it.
Also when you do any scaling it's good to check the "Use Maximum Render Quality" option, as it is the setting that deals with any scaling in your project. It will take longer to export, but any scaling done on the project will look so many times better.

Hope this will fix your problem.

Kharak

the compositions settings are 1920x1080 with the black border, but when it is rendered out of AE it is still stretched. The codec doesn't do black borders. There probably is a workaround with adding a layer or something for the black border, I might try that.

To your second part, I am not sure if it is using preview files or Rendered files, I was assuming it was using the DNxHD files. How can I tell?

But the aliasing most definitely must have something to do with Squeeze - Unsqueeze.

@Luiz roberto

I tried your binary, I put it in to cmd. I am not very good at these command things. Could you point me in the right direction on how to use this tool? Like an example.

I typed in --help and got some info but I am not sure how to tell the program which file I want.

--fullhelp seems to exceed the number of lines allowed. I tried increasing max Buffer Lines (I think it was called) to 500 but it seems to be the same.

All your help is much appreciated.
once you go raw you never go back

Luiz Roberto dos Santos

Quote from: Kharak on July 12, 2014, 11:04:11 PM
I tried your binary, I put it in to cmd. I am not very good at these command things. Could you point me in the right direction on how to use this tool? Like an example.

I typed in --help and got some info but I am not sure how to tell the program which file I want.

--fullhelp seems to exceed the number of lines allowed. I tried increasing max Buffer Lines (I think it was called) to 500 but it seems to be the same.

All your help is much appreciated.


Try this line:

x264 --crf 18 --profile high10 --preset placebo --tune film --fps ** --level 5.2 --sar width:height -t 2 --aq-mode 2 --me tesa --subme 9 --psy-rd 2 --fgo 15 --no-fast-pskip --thread-input * --opencl -o [outfile] [infile]


Where:
x264 is the binarie from VideoLan.
--fps is the frame rate. Put on "**" the number of your sequence.
--sar width:height is your aspect ratio. Put on "width:height", example: 16:9
--thread-input * is the number of thread on processor. Put on "*" this number. Example Intel core i7, put "8".
--opencl is the optimization using opencl lib. Remove it if your graphics card don't have support.
[outfile] is the name and location of your encoded file. Example: C:\User\MyName\encodedfile.mp4 (the extensios is called mp4 or mkv, your choice).
[infile] is the input file. The input must be support on FFMPEG. You can export the original file on Premiere with lagarith lossless and then put on "infile". Example: C:\User\MyName\original_file.avi


I think it will work to you. I make it based on samples above...

Kharak

Thank you Luiz!

Very detailed, I'll get at it right away! :)
once you go raw you never go back

Filmmaking_Dude

Quote from: Kharak on July 12, 2014, 11:04:11 PM
To your second part, I am not sure if it is using preview files or Rendered files, I was assuming it was using the DNxHD files. How can I tell?

There's the option when exporting and you either have it checked or not.


Kharak

@Film Dude

Yes I noticed that preview tick later and it was not ticked in. Never had it ticked in.

Maximum Render quality and Bit depth has also been ticked in always (I am a quality whore)

@Luiz Roberto.

I've been trying to get your command to work. First of all it stopped with the --fgo 15 said it was unrecognized. So I changed it to --fo 15 and it worked, but I couldn't find in --help what --fo does. Well maybe not worked, but atleast it didn't report it as an error.

But I seem to be unable to output my file. This is what I put in.

F:\>F:\x264-10b-r2431-ac76440.exe --crf 18 --profile high444 --preset placebo --
tune film --fps 23.976 --level 5.2 --sar 2:20.1 -t 2 --aq-mode 2 --me tesa --sub
me 9 --psy-rd 2 --fo 15 --no-fast-pskip --thread-input 8 --opencl -o [F:\Testfil
e] [F:\Næraberg\05.07.2014 160 Tons\Render\Sólar Rísing.mov]

x264 [error]: could not open output file `[F:\Testfile]'   <-- received message

I am not really sure if this is the correct way?

I drag and drop the binary file I downloaded in to cmd and then put in the command.

Do you see any error? I am not sure if I should write the aspect ratio as I wrote it: 2:20.1 ? Not sure how it interprets it.

I tried --profile high444 just for the hell of it, but it was the same with --high10

PS. I just noticed something else. PP crops the image. I noticed it when I was looking at the screenshots I posted and noticed that the framing was not similar on both screenshots. Especially the latter screenshots I posted, that shot was filmed on a tripod and I knew I didn't zoom in or out during the recording. So PP really has an issue with the 2:20.1.
once you go raw you never go back

Kharak

Just want to let you all know that I've solved the problem.

I added a solid black layer as a letterbox for all my 2:20.1 footage in AE and that rendered out perfectly with DNxHD, so no more stretch.

Premiere Pro also exports perfectly now without any aliasing or cropping of the image.

I want to thank you all for all the trouble you went through, trying to help me with this. It really shows what great community the Magic Lantern forum has.

once you go raw you never go back

Luiz Roberto dos Santos

Quote from: Kharak on July 15, 2014, 07:05:52 PM
--fgo 15 said it was unrecognized.

Maybe because the motion estimate is on "low" algorithm... my mistake.

Quote from: Kharak on July 15, 2014, 07:05:52 PM
I couldn't find in --help what --fo does. Well maybe not worked, but atleast it didn't report it as an error.

--fgo optimize the encode to preserve the grain, but it need a good (and slow) ME algo.

Quote from: Kharak on July 15, 2014, 07:05:52 PM
F:\>F:\x264-10b-r2431-ac76440.exe --crf 18 --profile high444 --preset placebo --
tune film --fps 23.976 --level 5.2 --sar 2:20.1 -t 2 --aq-mode 2 --me tesa --sub
me 9 --psy-rd 2 --fo 15 --no-fast-pskip --thread-input 8 --opencl -o [F:\Testfil
e]
[F:\Næraberg\05.07.2014 160 Tons\Render\Sólar Rísing.mov]

x264 [error]: could not open output file `[F:\Testfile]'   <-- received message

You have to put the extension. If you export as Lagarith Lossless, put ".avi" on final...
Also, it don't need of "[]", just put the folder link.



So, since you have "resolve" the problem, does not mater. But, if you want to receive the best encode, do not use the Adobe encoder's software. I is always outdated, and it is closed code.
I really recommend you to use MeGUI software. I is a front-end (simple interface), to the some encodes, like x264. It, also, encode audio and make a mux of the encoded files.
You have the "total" control of your encode.

My flow if I using Windows: MLV_dump > AE > PP > Lagarith > MeGUI.
It work perfectly for me.

[note: if you decide to test it, try to replace de x264 file of MeGUI for the updated binaries from VideoLan. I think MeGUI have no updates anymore, because it is just a front-end. You don't need install MeGUI, it is portable, too].


For other OS, you can find the front-end developments on Doom10 fórum

Audionut

Videolan releases official binaries, hence it doesn't include test code that never made it into the official source tree (fgo).

--preset placebo, as the name suggests, provides placebo results.  Try sane settings instead, like --preset veryslow.
--me tesa and --no-fast-pskip are redundant when using --preset placebo.
--level 5.2 with HD content at --crf 18 is pointless.  Try --level 4.1 to provide capability with more devices.

Luiz Roberto dos Santos

Quote from: Audionut on July 16, 2014, 04:11:46 PM
Videolan releases official binaries, hence it doesn't include test code that never made it into the official source tree (fgo).

--preset placebo, as the name suggests, provides placebo results.  Try sane settings instead, like --preset veryslow.
--me tesa and --no-fast-pskip are redundant when using --preset placebo.
--level 5.2 with HD content at --crf 18 is pointless.  Try --level 4.1 to provide capability with more devices.

Thanks for the corrections. I'am not the "encode-guy"  and not study the x264 ::)

Audionut

For an export to suit most devices, I would use something simple like this.

x264.exe --tune film --preset veryslow --crf 18

Tweaking the CRF value depending on personal quality requirements.


@OP, I don't use PP, but aliasing after export means that somewhere in the pipeline, the footage is being resized.

Kharak

Thanks for further clarification on the Videolan binary.

@Audionut

I will try your simplified command, but I'll increase the bitrate for my quality (whore) needs :)

But I don't think I will be using x264 as a renderer in the future. After comparing the DNxHD footage with the h264 from PP (VBR 2 Pass 100 mb), I can't tell any difference. This is an upload for the internet anyways and the slight increase of quality in the h264 will be so minimal when watched on Vimeo that I don't think its worth the hassle.

Besides, if one really wants max quality on a video on Vimeo, isn't it best to upload a DNxHD or Prores file via Dropbox?

I'll just rework my workflow now and re-render all non-16:9 footage from AE with a Solid Black Layer.

Thanks again! I really appreciate your insight.
once you go raw you never go back