Author Topic: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)  (Read 517732 times)

pulsar124

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #1000 on: January 11, 2018, 08:24:05 PM »
One more reason to love the FRSP feature - I recently designed and built a 3D scanning assistant (for photogrammetry processing). It rotates a platform while triggering FRSP shots with external flash(es). The full description is here:

http://pulsar124.wikia.com/wiki/3D_Scanner

It works great. FRSP really saves the shutter life of my Canon 6D, as one needs hundreds of shots for a quality scan.

Here is my first test scan, made out of 150 FRSP shots from 3 different camera angles (Canon 6D + 50mm f1.8 STM lens + two YN560III flashes inside softboxes), of a 20cm tall statue - no artifacts, high 3d resolution. (But it took many hours to process on my PC):


a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #1001 on: January 20, 2018, 04:56:15 PM »
Moving this here from the 100D topic.

I also have a question to А1еx regarding the silent module on the 100D that I have been using a lot for timelapse work.  I have been investigating the possibility for using it with stabilized lenses for shooting single full-resolution silent pictures in the Life View mode without actuating the mechanical shutter.  This is one of my favorite ML features since it allows taking single DNG photos at the highest sensor resolution, also in the Dual ISO mode, at locations where shutter noise is highly undesirable (churches, museums, lectures, etc.).  An additional bonus is the fact that pictures are taken in the mirrorless mode, so vibrations due to mirror flipping are avoided.  Thus sharp handheld pictures are possible at shutter speeds as low as 1/25-th down to 1/4-th of a second with stabilized lenses. 

There is one problem, however.  I usually use the back button for precise focusing at 5x or even 10x-magnification.  In this process, the image stabilizer (IS) of the lens is active and a very precise focus can be adjusted even at low light. When I am ready with focusing and metering and want to take the picture by pressing halfshutter, the IS continues working only for about 1 s. after I release the back button and then it stops working.  It does not get activated when I press halfshutter to take the picture.  This means that at the moment I take the photo, I have no image stabilizer engaged and the picture turns out blurry due to camera shake.  Sometimes I manage to press halfshutter very quickly, within this 1 s. after I release the back button hoping that the IS is still working during the actual photo taking but the time is too short to avoid camera shake.  Moreover, in this short time it is impossible to go back to full-screen LifeView for proper framing and or leveling.

So, my question is:  Is it somehow possible to increase the IS time from 1s. to 3 or even 5 s. after the back button is released?  An even better option would be to reengage the IS upon halfshutter press and holding down and the picture is taken only in the moment, half shutter is released.  In this way, the photographer would have enough time for proper framing and taking a deep breath during IS operation, before the actual photo is taken.

Thank you.

The IS is controlled by the MPU, and when exactly is enabled and when it's not, is unclear to me. In movie mode, if I'm not mistaken, it's always enabled, even in standby, but I'm not sure what happens once ML pauses LiveView in order to take the full-res silent picture.

When AF is enabled, there is a small delay before the half-shutter press, until the picture is taken (for the purpose of detecting autofocus). This delay should be enough to enable IS, but my gut feeling says it probably stops as soon as the LiveView is paused.

Do you have a sure way to tell whether IS is working, even without seeing the LiveView (such as, lens making noise, or by checking the captured images) ?

To test whether IS stays on while pausing LiveView, in movie mode, remove these checks:
Code: [Select]
diff -r 1dbb29d3cc6d modules/silent/silent.c
--- a/modules/silent/silent.c
+++ b/modules/silent/silent.c
@@ -1172,6 +1171,0 @@
-    if (shooting_mode != SHOOTMODE_M)
-    {
-        error_msg = "Manual (M) mode is required.";
-        goto err;
-    }
-
@@ -1448,2 +1441,0 @@
-    if (silent_pic_mode == SILENT_PIC_MODE_FULLRES && (shooting_mode != SHOOTMODE_M || is_movie_mode()))
-        return 0;

The feature is disabled in movie mode because you can't really adjust the shutter speed - no matter what you dial there, the full-res exposure will end up a lot brighter.

Triggering on half-shutter release is easy.

IDA_ML

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1002 on: January 20, 2018, 05:22:44 PM »
Thanks for your reply, A1ex,

Yes, I have two ways of telling if the IS is on or off:

1) By listening to the noise of the lens I can tell exactly when the IS engages and when it stops working;

2) By looking at the image on the screen.  When the IS stops working, the image becomes shaky.  The longer the focal length of the lens, the larger the shakyness.

In the movie mode, the IS stays engaged all the time - extremely useful for having stabilization in hand held video shooting. 

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1003 on: January 20, 2018, 10:34:54 PM »
Alright, stopped all the noise sources (turned off fan, closed doors/windows), placed the lens on my ear and I could hear the IS noise (a continuous hum). That way, I could unambiguously tell the IS remains active when entering PLAY mode starting from movie mode (something I didn't expect, given that Canon code turns off the sensor and the image pipeline in this mode). That was on 60D, and my IS lens is an APS-C one, so I can't test this on a DIGIC 5 model - can you confirm the behavior on 100D (IS always active in PLAY mode when entering from movie mode) ?

In photo mode, the same hum noise is triggered by half-shutter press and stays there for ~ 1 second, even outside LiveView or if triggered from Canon menu. So, it's not affected by the camera GUI mode - that's good.

Triggering a software half-shutter press also activates IS - also good.

Included the IS feature and some delayed trigger options in the latest lua_fix build.

IDA_ML

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1004 on: January 21, 2018, 10:45:10 AM »
Thank you A1ex,

I will test your January 20-th build for the 100D as soon as possible.

IDA_ML

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1005 on: January 21, 2018, 11:27:55 AM »
A1ex,

I tested again with the Oct. 23-rd build on the 100D with the EF 70-300/4.0-5.6 IS.  Here is what I confirm:

1) In the Movie mode, the IS stays on all the time but I don't like shooting single FRSPs in this mode because it is very hard to control the shutter speed.  If I need a shutter speed of 1/4 s. for example, I have to reduce FPS override to 4 fps which makes focusing a pain.

2) When I switch from Movie mode to Play mode (Power switch to ON and Live View activated), the IS stays off.  It engages only if I press the back button for focusing but when I release the back button again, IS stops working within about 1 s.  When I now press half shutter to take the picture, IS starts working again but the picture is already taken before stabilization is good enough to minimize blur due to camera shake.  So, the picture comes out blurry most of the time.   I will check out the delay options on your latest build to see how it works now.

IDA_ML

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1006 on: January 21, 2018, 12:24:14 PM »
A1ex,

I have just tested your new January 20-th build.  Single FRSP works very well now.  I love the "Half-shutter release" option for the trigger mode.  This is exactly what I wanted!  I can now shoot handheld FRSPs even at 300 mm focal length with quite usable results.  Here is one, shot at 0.3s shutter speed:






Thank you so much, A1ex!  I was wondering if you may be able to implement this feature also in my favorite build from Oct. 23-rd which I use for shooting losslessly compressed RAW video with sound.  This one here:

https://bitbucket.org/ehoutsma/magic-lantern/downloads/

Thank you in advance!

Bond

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1007 on: March 06, 2018, 06:19:12 PM »
Hi guys,
I read this topic and found my problem here.
I was not the only one who encountered black frames in silent mode for 550d.
Tell me, please, does this problem somehow be solved?
Thank you in advance.

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1008 on: March 07, 2018, 03:59:24 PM »
I have no idea what you are talking about. Searching for "black 550D" in this thread points to a very old issue that was not about black frames in the first place, and was resolved a long time ago. Searching for "black frames" does not reveal anything interesting either.

https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html

Bond

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1009 on: March 09, 2018, 01:40:35 PM »
I spent again some tests I can report some information.
I used silent.mo in symple mode, dng.
Intervalometer 300 frames every 60 seconds.
The output received 207 frames (the battery was exhausted), of which 14 frames are black. Each file had a size of 3847kb. The frequency of black shots is not justified. There were two at once, some with an arbitrary interval.
The next day I used full-res, dng. Received 236 frames of this size (3847kb). There were no black frames. I'm surprised at the size of the file in the FULL-RES mode, usually the file size is about 31MB.
ETTR was used in both cases.
Canon 550d, firmware 1.0.9, magiclantern-Nightly.2018Feb04.550D109.
On this forum, I saw references to this problem:
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=14979.0
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12523.msg120661#msg120661
I ask to help you figure it out.
Thank you in advance




Bond

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1010 on: March 10, 2018, 11:00:06 AM »
Today's test confirmed my theory.
We start the intervalometer in the mode SILENT.MO, simlpe-dng. We are waiting for 1 frame.
Go to the menu ML, change to FULL-RES.
We return to LiveView, we are waiting for the shot.
This results in 1 white frame and RAW ERROR.
Again we change FULL-RES on the simple and during the session there is not a black frame.

David_Hugh

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1011 on: April 16, 2018, 01:19:25 PM »
Hey! I got a question. I just recently started using silent pics and I love it so far. I think that you obviously wouldnt shoot sports with it, 1/30th of a second isnt too shaby - very useful for ceremonies or other kind of event where shutter noise is a no no as others have noted. I just wondered if it is possible/feasible to impement a mode that tells the cam to set the shutter speed to 8000 automatically AFTER the half shutter was pressed. This way one could use the Live view for normal preview (bc it darkens when you choose the higher shutter speeds) but ensure that the picture is taken at the maximum allowed shutter speed. Is this an idea even worth pursuing or are there simpler in-camera tricks to achieve this? Thanks in advance!

ArcziPL

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1012 on: April 16, 2018, 02:52:40 PM »
What do you want to achieve? According to the actual knowledge, you can't shorter the exposure time below 1/30s without actuating the shutter. This is the reason why the shutter is built-in. And as soon as you actuate the shutter, you are not silent anymore. So, live with the 1/30s limitation and don't hope for a simple hack.

Only loose thoughts: I believe the mirrors are significantly contributing to the overall noise, so the possibility to keep the mirrors up but activate the shutter only, could lead to a still quite silent trigger enabling all exposure times. But this rather won't be possible without having a control over MPU and probably never possible, as the mechanics of the shutter might be directly coupled with the mechanics of the mirror (just a guess, I believe there is a reason why taking a picture in LV is always moving the mirror down and up again as well).
70D.112 | 700D.115 | M.202 | 450D.110

David_Hugh

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1013 on: April 16, 2018, 03:02:40 PM »
I dont think you understand my question correctly. I am NOT searching for a simple fix to make the shutter speed faster - I read quite a bit of this thread, enough to understand that 1/30th is the current limit. However (and here's the correct me if I'm wrong part again) I seem to recall that a1ex achieved 1/30 with a shutter speed setting of 8000 on the camera. When you set your shutter to 8000, liveview darkens siginificantly. My question was aiming at a possible solution like tricking the module into "always" selecting the highest possible shutter speed without the need to set it to 8000 on cam.

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1014 on: April 16, 2018, 03:05:14 PM »
Actually it's closer to about 1/10 in the middle of the frame on 5D3 (see the timing analysis) and 1/2 on 6D (theory, not confirmed experimentally, but this model is the closest to 70D).

These will help with the slow shutter speed:

- full-res LiveView (only 5D3 for now, but there is a PoC for 700D with adtg_gui); this can reach shutter speeds as fast as 1/15000, with a rolling shutter of 128ms on 5D3
- this proof of concept (use aperture to simulate a mechanical shutter, much quieter, compatible with all models, just need a couple of hours to make sure it actually works as advertised, then it will be live)

To select 1/8000 quickly, try the exposure presets feature. A Lua script can be used to sketch the half-shutter workaround, too. Disabling exposure simulation might be also helpful (yet another workaround).

ArcziPL

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1015 on: April 16, 2018, 03:11:52 PM »
I dont think you understand my question correctly.
Correct, I didn't, sorry.
70D.112 | 700D.115 | M.202 | 450D.110

David_Hugh

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1016 on: April 16, 2018, 04:01:12 PM »
Ha! Yes, disabling the exposure simulation was something along the lines of what I was thinking about. However, the solutions you suggested are obviously a lot more elegant. Can't wait to see how the mechanical shutter simulation by way of the aperture works out! Thanks for answering the question and also grant us a look into the future ;).

Dmytro_ua

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1017 on: April 19, 2018, 10:47:05 PM »
Hi! I didn't use silent picture FullRess for a year or so and forgot how to make exposure longer than 1/33. With expo override ON - I still can get only 1/25. My ExpSim seems to be locked to Movie mode. I don't remember if it always was locked..

But I'm sure I've made time lapses with 5-10 seconds exposure FRSP without any problems and now I'm stucked in settings. Please give me a hint (5d3).

mothaibaphoto

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1018 on: April 20, 2018, 06:11:35 AM »
@Dmytro_ua: you should be in photo mode.
In video mode FRSP works too(and you even can manage aperture of STM lenses!!!), kinda not documented " full-res LiveView", but with video limitations on exposure.

Dmytro_ua

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1019 on: April 20, 2018, 10:33:35 AM »
@Dmytro_ua: you should be in photo mode.

Wait a minute, now I'm even more confused..
In the Silent Picture description is said that "This feature only works in LiveView". When I'm in photo mode the mirror is down and for take a picture it should go up, so it couldn't be a silent picture anymore.
I'm sure I'm missing something stupidly simple  :-[

Walter Schulz

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1020 on: April 20, 2018, 10:50:11 AM »
Photo mode refers to "normal" stills camera operation (mirror down, shutter closed, framing using eye piece) *and* liveview using display for framing.
Liveview is not exclusive to movie mode.

And of course there is no way entering liveview without mirror going up and shutter opening. But in Silent Pic mode your shutter won't close after taking pic and mirror would not be actuated.

Dmytro_ua

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1021 on: April 20, 2018, 11:01:45 AM »
Liveview is not exclusive to movie mode.

Oh, thanks! Now I remember that I did my last FRSP shoot with 5d2 and workflow was a little bit different. On my "new" 5d3 to go to live view in photo mode I have to press "Start/Stop" button  :) It was not obvious for me. Thanks for help  ;) ;) ;)

mash.m

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1022 on: May 25, 2018, 05:29:15 PM »
Hi,

i´d like to use the silent Picture for Electronically Assisted Astronomy. for this it is necessary to Transfer the Pictures live to the PC for live-stacking. if i connect the camera through an usb cable i can´t see the dng/mlv files stored on the Card, only raw or jpg. only if i put the Card direct into the pc´s Reader i see them stored in the dcim Folder.
is there a way to Access These Pictures live from a PC?

thanks, markus

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1023 on: May 26, 2018, 09:21:56 AM »
Patching the code to save .JPG instead of .DNG should do the trick.

Having a Lua script running in background to do these renames might work too, but I'm unsure about thread safety (need to check what happens if some task tries to rename a file while some other task is modifying it). There might be an API to tell whether a file is "in use", or it might just work out of the box, but this needs some reverse engineering to find out.

mash.m

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)
« Reply #1024 on: May 26, 2018, 07:07:15 PM »
Hi a1lex,

thx for the quick Reply. i have edited the silent.mo with Notepad++. now the Images are saved as jpg, but the Canon tool still not recognize it. i also test with Extension cr2, still no luck. i think it is the filename also. "IMG_9133.CR2". Maybe i have to add "IMG" to the Image file, but i don´t know how to do this. any help will be welcome. and also only 4 Digits in filename.

"save_mlv MLV CR2 %s/%%08d.%s %s/%04d%%04d.%s %s"

regards, markus