Author Topic: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)  (Read 638853 times)

g3gg0

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #650 on: April 05, 2015, 03:11:40 PM »
i am on the road at the moment.
but with mlv_dump you can patch the FPS field and make it look like a normal MLV.
dont know the option, i think it was -F <fps>
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flez1966

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #651 on: April 05, 2015, 03:56:02 PM »
Thinking about the 'card filling so fast' issue and the suggestion of buy a 128/256, i think the 600d max is 64gb, which is still only about 2k shots (my 16gb card filled in half an hour)

BUT.......

I have a eye-fi card that uploads all the .jpgs to 'the cloud' and never fills..

so can i hack/hex edit the FW so when it creates the filename 000001.dng it instead call its .jpg,  that is not changing the format of the file etc, but just tricking the eye-fi card, I know this breaks the standard on many levels but it would be a workaround...

thoughts?

Walter Schulz

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #652 on: April 05, 2015, 04:07:41 PM »
Thinking about the 'card filling so fast' issue and the suggestion of buy a 128/256, i think the 600d max is 64gb, which is still only about 2k shots

600D supports SDXC (48 GByte and up).

[...]eye-fi[...]

If you get your eye-fi card working with ML (most just don't) it would be not a big problem to create a script doing some renaming. After LUA scripting module is available, of course.

Ottoga

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #653 on: April 06, 2015, 12:26:10 PM »
Sorry everyone for the long post, but I thnk that it s important for Windows users to be aware of what does and doesn't work re FRSP.mlv file extractions.

@g3gg0

Thanks for the reply. The actual parameter was -A <fps>. This had no impact.  I was however able to extract the images via the -dng parameter.

As general feedback, after more experimenting today, the below table is a summary of my experience trying to extract FRSP images from MLV files (in the windows world).

Extraction
Application        Comments
---------------    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MLV_Dump      Successfully extracts the dng's from all frsp.mlv files attempted. With one exception the
                      quality of the images extracted was as expected. All the images extracted from the exception
                      MLV had significant artefacts (green spots) rendering them unusable. The images were
                      extracted again using mlv2dng and there were no artifacts nor were there any on the control
                      CR2 image taken. (ref examples below)

MLV2DNG       Successfully extracts the dng's from all but 1 of the frsp.mlv files attempted. The following
                     error/warning message is displayed for each file processed.
                          "Exception! Header not recognized: 'STYL'".
                     The one major issue with this aplcation is that the image off-sets are incorrect in the resultant
                     dng files (ref: example below).

MLRawViewer v1.4.3     Loads the files and allows preview but crashes on export - all frsp.mlv files

raw2cdng v1.7.1           Loads the files and allows preview but crashes on export - all frsp.mlv files

Pismo File Mount           Fails to mount ant frsp.mlv files - crashes

WebDAV                      Doesn't support mlv files. Still need to try using MLV_Dump to convert the files to
                                  standard raw and see if that works.


Below are example images highlighting the MLV_Dump artifacts issue (note that this only occured in one of the frsp.mlv files processed).
The MLV2DNG extracted image also highlights the image off-sets error (Black border across the top and the left hand side of the image)

MLV_Dump extracted image
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gutb5jl56pjf615/MLV_DumpTest_5496_000005.dng?dl=0

MLV2DNG extracted image
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vqq1y8x6ir8c6rn/MLV2DNG_Test_5496_000005.dng?dl=0

Canon CR2 image
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1l8h20b3lkzcr4g/IMG_5496.CR2?dl=0

@Kharak,
This may answer your questions, if not pm me please. Just remember when capturing tha the camera must be in manual mode and liveview (not movie mode} exposure should be 1/15 of a second or slower (Alex please correct me if this is no longer true). A variable ND filter will help with his.

I'm still having fun and games getting my exposures right. A topic for another post after a controlled test that I have in mind.
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chmee

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #654 on: April 06, 2015, 01:08:41 PM »
->raw2cdng<- will look into the code today.

edit: help: liveview with halfshutter gives me DNG, how to get MLV with FRSP?

Ottoga

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #655 on: April 06, 2015, 01:36:54 PM »
@chmee - excellent, thanks.

Happy to test for you.
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Licaon_Kter

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #656 on: April 06, 2015, 02:46:45 PM »
edit: help: liveview with halfshutter gives me DNG, how to get MLV with FRSP?
Also load mlv_rec module and then in the silent module options select MLV instead of DNG

Just remember when capturing tha the camera must be in manual mode and liveview (not movie mode} exposure should be 1/15 of a second or slower (Alex please correct me if this is no longer true).
Using a slow speed yields even slower times, on my M1:
if I set speed = I get FRSP speed
1/125 = 240ms ( 1/4 )
1/4 = 500ms ( 1/2 )
0.5" = 789ms

g3gg0

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #657 on: April 06, 2015, 03:39:26 PM »
with mlv_dump you should preprocess the MLV file.
e.g. mlv_dump -A 25000 -o out.mlv in.mlv
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Kharak

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #658 on: April 06, 2015, 04:47:39 PM »

@Kharak,
This may answer your questions, if not pm me please. Just remember when capturing tha the camera must be in manual mode and liveview (not movie mode} exposure should be 1/15 of a second or slower (Alex please correct me if this is no longer true). A variable ND filter will help with his.


Here Alex talks about 1/8000 being a gradient http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12523.msg121962#msg121962

Guess this is a trial and error thing, I better just start slamming some FRSP's.
once you go raw you never go back

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #659 on: April 06, 2015, 05:04:50 PM »
Using a slow speed yields even slower times, on my M1:
if I set speed = I get FRSP speed
1/125 = 240ms ( 1/4 )
1/4 = 500ms ( 1/2 )
0.5" = 789ms

The time displayed is the total runtime of the image capture function (which is always higher than actual capture time).

Most likely, the time displayed should be equal to bottom row exposure time + a model-specific constant. If one creates a table with shutter speeds vs capture times, we might attempt to fit a mathematical model (and find that constant).

breaker

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #660 on: April 06, 2015, 07:43:10 PM »
Alex, are there any way to auto-end the pic review after taking silent pics? I'm working on getting external trigger to work properly, and the only thing stopping me now is that it's only taking pics every second time. The ml intervalometer behavour is perfect, but it's not taking external halfshutter signal in that mode... Maybe there could be a setting setting "external trigger" in that menu?
I have tweaked a cable to make the trigger signal reach halfshutter.
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itsskin

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #661 on: April 06, 2015, 08:51:21 PM »
Is it possible to create a software for automatic gradient correction in DNGs?

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #662 on: April 06, 2015, 09:20:45 PM »
@breaker: I'll take care of it.

@itsskin: yes, but there are two difficulties:
- difference between top row and bottom row can be up to around 2...5 stops, depending on camera model (so there will be either clipped or pink highlights)
- we should find some way to measure top/bottom exposure times
   - method 1: somebody has to sit down and do the measurement for every single shutter speed (and repeat for every camera model) - really boring and hard to maintain
   - method 2: find a way to tell the exposure times from other parameters (partial success here)

itsskin

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #663 on: April 07, 2015, 02:14:00 AM »
These particle results looks pretty precise :) How can we all help here?

IMHO this gradient effect heavily limits the use of FRSP. Pretty hard to eliminate it in post, especially when there is a lot of pushing of clarity/exposure/contrast.

Audionut

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #664 on: April 07, 2015, 05:37:29 AM »
   - method 1: somebody has to sit down and do the measurement for every single shutter speed (and repeat for every camera model) - really boring and hard to maintain

Canon 6D:

Code: [Select]
SV          Time (ms)
15"         16987
13"         13175
10"         12109
8"          8659
6"          6220
5"          5731
4"          4495
3"2         3542
3"          3276
2"5         3031
2"          2431
1"6         1937
1"5         1804
1"3         1681
1"          1372
0"8         1131
0"7         1065
0"6         1004
0"5         849
0"4         739
0"3         697
1/4         592
1/5         513
1/6         497
1/8         445
1/10        408
1/13        399
1/15        382
1/20        363
1/25        359
1/30        350
1/40        343
1/45        341
1/50        339
1/60        334
1/80        331
1/90        330
1/100       329
1/125       326
1/160       325
1/180       324
1/200       324
1/250       322
1/320       322
1/350       321
1/400       321
1/500       317

317ms being the smallest capture time.  The boring bit was formatting it for this post.  :P

stoopkid

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #665 on: April 07, 2015, 06:04:40 AM »
Code: [Select]
Tv Tv t2i ms dif m1 ms diff
sec ms actual actual
1/4000 0.3 281 280.8 238 237.8
1/3200 0.3 281 280.7 238 237.7
1/2500 0.4 282 281.6 238 237.6
1/2000 0.5 282 281.5 238 237.5
1/1600 0.6 281 280.4 238 237.4
1/1250 0.8 281 280.2 238 237.2
1/1000 1.0 281 280.0 238 237.0
1/800 1.3 281 279.8 238 236.8
1/640 1.6 281 279.4 238 236.4
1/500 2.0 281 279.0 238 236.0
1/400 2.5 282 279.5 238 235.5
1/320 3.1 283 279.9 240 236.9
1/250 4.0 284 280.0 240 236.0
1/200 5.0 286 281.0 241 236.0
1/160 6.3 287 280.8 243 236.8
1/125 8.0 288 280.0 244 236.0
1/100 10.0 291 281.0 248 238.0
1/80 12.5 292 279.5 250 237.5
1/60 16.7 297 280.3 252 235.3
1/50 20.0 301 281.0 257 237.0
1/40 25.0 304 279.0 262 237.0
1/30 33.3 313 279.7 267 233.7
1/25 40.0 322 282.0 278 238.0
1/20 50.0 330 280.0 285 235.0
1/15 66.7 344 277.3 300 233.3
1/13 76.9 364 287.1 317 240.1
1/10 100.0 380 280.0 333 233.0
1/8 125.0 410 285.0 362 237.0
1/6 166.7 450 283.3 400 233.3
1/5 200.0 481 281.0 431 231.0
1/4 250.0 560 310.0 510 260.0
300 637 337.0 584 284.0
400 701 301.0 655 255.0
500 820 320.0 765 265.0
600 974 374.0 920 320.0
800 1101 301.0 1048 248.0
1000 1290 290.0
1300 1599 299.0
1600 1853 253.0
2000 2329 329.0
2500 2947 447.0
3200 3457 257.0
4000 4408 408.0
5000 5643 643.0
6000 6664 664.0
8000 8569 569.0
10000 11038 1038.0
13000 13079 79.0
15000 16887 1887.0

I did a t2i and an M1. What's weird it I did 13" on the M1 a few times and it always gives me a really short difference. I'm not sure if that means something about it lines up better so it goes faster or if it's not really 13 seconds...

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #666 on: April 07, 2015, 10:32:25 AM »
Interesting, the differences become a bit strange at long exposure times. A while ago, I've noticed that long exposures are made in smaller increments (that is, the sensor is reconfigured a few times during a long exposure). I should probably measure the rolling shutter effect at long exposures as well.

Look for this string in Canon firmware: "VSizeSetting Time:%d Acc:%d loop:%d" / "VSize T:%d A:%d l:%d". This routine decides how many increments are used to take an exposure. Its input value is time in ms, taken from this table.

I've tried to run that function for different input values, and here's the output for EOS-M (in 1/3 EV steps):
Code: [Select]
Tv Time Acc out[1] out[2] loop
1/4000 15 345 0 3532 1
1/3200 15 345 0 3532 1
1/2500 15 345 0 3532 1
1/2000 15 345 0 3532 1
1/1600 15 345 0 3532 1
1/1250 15 345 0 3532 1
1/1000 15 345 0 3532 1
1/800 15 345 0 3532 1
1/640 15 345 0 3532 1
1/500 15 345 0 3532 1
1/400 16 368 0 3532 1
1/320 17 391 0 3532 1
1/250 17 391 0 3532 1
1/200 19 437 0 3532 1
1/160 20 460 0 3532 1
1/125 21 483 0 3532 1
1/100 24 552 0 3532 1
1/80 26 599 0 3532 1
1/60 29 668 0 3532 1
1/50 34 783 0 3532 1
1/40 38 875 0 3532 1
1/30 45 1036 0 3532 1
1/25 54 1244 0 3532 1
1/20 62 1428 0 3532 1
1/15 77 1774 0 3532 1
1/13 95 2188 0 3532 1
1/10 111 2557 0 3532 1
1/8 140 3225 0 3532 1
1/6 177 4078 0 3532 1
1/5 208 4792 0 3532 1
1/4 266 1589 5004 3532 2
0.3" 341 3317 5004 3532 2
0.4" 413 4976 5004 3532 2
0.5" 523 2511 5004 3532 3
0.6" 678 1082 5004 3532 4
0.8" 805 4009 5004 3532 4
1" 1043 4493 5004 3532 5
1.3" 1352 1612 5004 3532 7
1.6" 1607 2488 5004 3532 8
2" 2083 3456 5004 3532 10
2.5" 2700 2672 5004 3532 13
3.2" 3210 4423 5004 3532 15
4" 4162 1359 5004 3532 20
5" 5396 4792 5004 3532 25
6" 6417 3317 5004 3532 30
8" 8320 2165 5004 3532 39
10" 10789 4055 5004 3532 50
12.5" 12830 1082 5004 3532 60
16" 16637 3801 5004 3532 77
20" 21575 2580 5004 3532 100
25" 25656 1612 5004 3532 119
32" 32323 5230 5004 3532 149

notes:
- Tv is shutter speed string as displayed by ML
- Time is from Canon's shutter timing table (in ms), and it's also printed in the string below
- Acc and loop are from this string: "VSizeSetting Time:%d Acc:%d loop:%d"
- out[1] and out[2] are also output values from VSizeSetting, just not displayed in debug messages

halbmoki

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #667 on: April 07, 2015, 10:57:45 PM »
First let me thank everybody involved in the FRSP development. This sounds awesome for timelapse :)

Sadly, today's nightly build doesn't seem to work on my 50D. Regular photo, lo-res silent pictures and video mode work as usual, but FRSP just flashes the screen (no message, just light gray) and the blue LED and then turns both off. The camera is still running at this point and everything goes back to normal after turning liveview off and on again or just going to Canon menu and then pressing half shutter again. The top display even shows "busy" for the set exposure time, but nothing gets written to the memory card, even after waiting 5 minutes without touching the camera. I did check the card with the card reader, not in camera.

Any guesses what I could have done wrong?
I can supply more information or a video of this behaviour, if it helps.

Settings: M mode, ISO 100, f/4, different shutter speeds from 10s to 1/50s, daylight WB, video inactive, expsim and exp-override active. Fresh installation from Nightly.2015Apr06.50D109 onto formatted card with no modules except silent.mo and mlv_rec.mo.



Pyriphlegethon

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #668 on: April 08, 2015, 02:32:45 AM »
Is there currently a solution for sending a trigger signal via PC sync port on camera (or attached to hot shoe) when the silent picture is 'taken'? Some way to trigger external intervalometer/motor setup would be great, but uncertain how feasible this idea is as a search doesn't yield much success on any idea similar. Thanks.

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #669 on: April 08, 2015, 08:30:19 AM »
@halbmoki: did it ever work? A video of the camera screen would help.

@Pyriphlegethon: see this, this, this and this.

halbmoki

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #670 on: April 08, 2015, 02:55:01 PM »
@a1ex: No, it never worked. This is the first version I'm trying, since I'm not very good with coding and compiling. I'm just assuming it's my mistake, because someone else reported success with a 50D earlier in the thread.
Here's a video of what happens when I try to take a full-res silent picture:
The first 2 half-shutter presses are regular silent pics (always worked and still do), then one with FRSP/DNG and one with FRSP/MLV. Both are repeatable and the screen stays black for more than 10 minutes every time, unless I press some other button than half-shutter.
Little correction from my last post: There is a message "Hold on..." on the screen for a moment before it turns black. Didn't notice that before, because it's really fast.

The camera also crashed (frozen inside ML menu, had to remove battery) once while turning video off when FRSP was already on. I couldn't reproduce this after a few tries, though.

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #671 on: April 08, 2015, 10:40:58 PM »
@halbmoki: I think I found the problem: set image review in Canon menu to a nonzero value. Without it, some cameras can't trigger the QuickReview mode for previewing the image.

@breaker: what kind of trigger signal do you use? If I redefine half-shutter to trigger another picture, there will be no easy way to return to LiveView. If your trigger signal is a little longer, I could let short presses to return to LiveView, and long presses to trigger another picture (without adding yamlmo).

breaker

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #672 on: April 08, 2015, 11:39:45 PM »
@alex: I'm using an Dynamic Perception MX3. I could not find anything in the documentation, and all i have in hand now is a slow multimeter. Anyway, i estimate the trigger signal to be somewhere between 500 and 1000 ms. I might measure it with oscilloscope tomorrow.
Another thing - i can also activate bulb mode on the trigger, so that will let me choose whatever trigger lenght i would like :)

Edit: fully adjustable, 120 ms default.

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halbmoki

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #673 on: April 09, 2015, 10:16:47 AM »
Thank you, a1ex! That did it. The image takes about 3 seconds to save, but it does work and the results look great. Now I only need a bunch of memory and a completely new editing maching that doesn't melt at the thought of 4K timelapse ;)

X-RAY

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #674 on: April 09, 2015, 10:26:37 AM »
@ alex
oh well, this should also be the problem which I PMed you. will test that later.
but the image review was intended to be 0 for better battery runtime (timelapse), or isn't that the case anyway? Man, I'm still waiting for a possibility to deactivate that shitty screen. ^^ But I know, this probably won't ever be solved.
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