Author Topic: Full-resolution silent pictures (silent.mo)  (Read 583812 times)

dmilligan

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #550 on: March 25, 2015, 12:09:24 PM »
I know that using LV display gain with say 3 EV get's things on par though, so maybe this is the solution.
The problem is that the difference between the exposure time you set and actual exposure time varies. It varies by camera (b/c readout times/speeds vary by camera), varies by shutter speed (faster shutter speeds are more off than slower ones), and it even varies line by line within the same image.

I don't think it wouldn't be that hard to implement something like this, but you would need to precisely quantify this curve on every camera. This data would also be quite useful in other ways, for example getting the exposure metadata exactly correct.

Licaon_Kter

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #551 on: March 25, 2015, 12:41:50 PM »
I don't think it wouldn't be that hard to implement something like this, but you would need to precisely quantify this curve on every camera. This data would also be quite useful in other ways, for example getting the exposure metadata exactly correct.
So I need to run this: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12523.msg120758#msg120758 and that would help?


/LE: Compiled 5D v1.2.3 also, hopefully it merged ok from commit c7655e9


Same link: <removed>


/LE: use nightly





Ottoga

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #552 on: March 25, 2015, 01:09:27 PM »
Thanks for the builds licaon_Kter I will endeavour to test over the next few days. In answer to your question re: the 7d Builds:

Quote
6. For 7D there are 2 builds, maybe 7D owners know why/how.

I have downloaded both. From what I can see the magiclantern-Nightly.2015Mar25.7D_MASTER203_DoF_FRSP_commit5ce2235.zip file does NOT include the following files:

-  7D_203.fir at the root level
-  7D_203.sym in the modules folder

That would suggest the build contained in file "magiclantern-Nightly.2015Mar25.7D203_DoF_FRSP_commit5ce2235.zip" is the correct one to download and test with.

Cheers... Otto
EOS 7D.203, EFS 55-250mm, EF 75-300 III, Tamron 16-300 DiII VC PZD Macro, SpeedLite 580EX II.

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #553 on: March 25, 2015, 01:36:14 PM »
@Licaon_Kter:

Please read this thread before providing any more builds.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12608.0

Ottoga

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures 7D issue
« Reply #554 on: March 25, 2015, 02:01:34 PM »
With the 7D set in 'M'anual mode I am no longer able to adjust the exposure compensation.

Upon investigation I discovered that the large thumbwheel appears to be mapped to the "Bracketing" exposure control normally linked to the small thumbwheel. Note that the 'Bracketing' exposure control was still associated with the small thumbwheel at the same time. (this is a repeatable problem)

Also, when I switched from 'M'anual to 'AV' mode and tested the exposure override it worked as per normal however, whilst making the adjustment, the camera froze. Battery removal was required to power down and reset the camera. I could not reproduce this on demand so will monitor this.

Auto ETTR seems to be a workaround for the lack of manual exposure control but it needs to be fixed.

Cheers.... Otto
EOS 7D.203, EFS 55-250mm, EF 75-300 III, Tamron 16-300 DiII VC PZD Macro, SpeedLite 580EX II.

Licaon_Kter

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #555 on: March 25, 2015, 05:33:26 PM »
@a1ex: Any chance to have the AF wait cycle count selectable in ML menu? It's 5 now, but I feel it might need a bit longer and compiling, extracting card, card reader, copy, card reader, insert card and test is getting tiresome.
And you've got a PM.

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #556 on: March 25, 2015, 07:32:25 PM »
For your own experimentation, yes, feel free to add this setting to the menu. But for everyday usage, I'd rather try to find a value that covers most cases (ML menu is very cluttered anyway - search for "yamlmo" ;) ).

vascostmr

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #557 on: March 25, 2015, 09:02:50 PM »
Tested the build from Licaon_Kter on my 50D. I can take single FullRes photos, but if i try the intervalometer after the first photo i get 1 white photo, 1 black photo, 1 white photo, and so on...

Do you need a sample or log? 

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #558 on: March 25, 2015, 09:28:53 PM »
Can you record a video of the camera screen, and upload two sample DNGs (1 black and 1 white)?

vascostmr

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #559 on: March 25, 2015, 10:27:56 PM »
After some tries i realised that my previous description of the bug was not 100% correct.

The procedure after installing ML build(magiclantern-Nightly.2015Mar25.50D109_DoF_FRSP_commit5ce2235):
-reset ML defaults
-activate Silent.mo
-take a bunch of full-res-silent pics
-activate the intervalometer with the LV off (4 pics every second).
-leave menu and the intervalometer starts: the previews are white noise and the DNGs are full black
-enter menu with LV still on and leave menu, the intervalometer starts: the previews are full white but the DNGs are OK.
-take a bunch of full-res-silent pics

Video of the procedure: Sample of 1 black DNG (white noise on previre) and 1 OK (white on preview): http://we.tl/yLhsuXXNJu

guisquil

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #560 on: March 26, 2015, 12:30:09 AM »
Same link: https://mega.co.nz/#F!YVBl0ZhS!Z5-ZnbWm8EU7xBE29nNPJw

Tested with a Canon 7D, I get this crash, and as other commented pictures are over exposed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99flO-87y2s&feature=youtu.be

Crash log:
Code: [Select]
ASSERT: GetMemoryAddressOfMemoryChunk( GetFirstMemChunk( pMem1AllocateListItem->hMemSuite ) ) == pMessage->pAddress
at SrmActionMemory.c:1154, task RscMgr
lv:0 mode:3

Magic Lantern version : Nightly.2015Mar25.7D203
Mercurial changeset   : 5ce22358adb5+ (fullres-silent-pics) tip
Built on 2015-03-25 09:23:46 UTC by magiclantern@magiclantern-VirtualBox.
Free Memory  : 238K + 2720K

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #561 on: March 26, 2015, 12:42:14 AM »
@vascostmr: solved (removed the dark frame feature for now).

@guisquil: does the crash happen every time you take a regular picture after a silent one? does it also happen after you record a raw video and then try to take a picture?

guisquil

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #562 on: March 26, 2015, 01:01:27 AM »
@guisquil: does the crash happen every time you take a regular picture after a silent one?

Yes it happens every time I take a Picture, and not just when i do it after a silent one, I noticed that when im not in live view if I only do a half press on the shutter the camera still takes a silent pic, when I try to see the picture in file manager, sometimes i see this message:

 "Preparing
A:?DCIM/10EOS7D/DARK000.MLV
Error: GUID within the file chunks mismath"

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #563 on: March 26, 2015, 01:08:42 AM »
Dark frame feature removed, so it no longer makes sense to report bugs about it.

Also, I have difficulties understanding your post, since you seem to mix unrelated issues in the same phrase. I'm still confused about when the crash happens.

Half-shutter press is the proper way to trigger a silent picture. Full press probably just happens to work, especially if you don't press it too fast (but I don't know how to intercept it properly).

guisquil

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #564 on: March 26, 2015, 01:26:58 AM »
Also, I have difficulties understanding your post, since you seem to mix unrelated issues in the same phrase. I'm still confused about when the crash happens.

The crash happens when I take a picture using the regular view finder not live view while the silent.mo is On / Full-res, MLV

SpcCb

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #565 on: March 26, 2015, 03:54:10 AM »
Quote
@SpcCb: I've added the ability to take dark and nearly-bias frames (press half-shutter outside LiveView).

Probably it's not very useful without a way to mix regular pictures with dark/bias frames, but I think this would be a job for the scripting engine.

Still, this trick now lets you take a large number of dark frames without wearing the shutter mechanism.

note 1: by nearly-bias frames I mean dark frames with the shortest exposure time possible - same thing that you would get with a regular picture at 1/4000 and lens cap on, for example.

note 2: in LiveView, with some cameras, it is possible to take true bias frames (with zero exposure time) by removing the range checks from the shutter fine-tuning feature.

note 3: if we ever figure out how to drive the sensor at full resolution and with rolling shutter (thus removing the shutter speed limitation), true bias frames might be possible as well. But for now I'm kinda clueless about how to setup the sensor this way.

E-nor-mous.
Over flow by work right now, but right I get free times I'll experiment this!
Do you know witch camera could done the ZET (zip exposure time, what we have on scientific cameras)?

budafilms

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #566 on: March 26, 2015, 06:22:37 AM »
@a1ex

"@guisquil: does the crash happen every time you take a regular picture after a silent one? does it also happen after you record a raw video and then try to take a picture?"

It's my case of crash and error, I removed the battery and everything is fine.

The only thing that I can't understand is the exposition in the live view. I tried ETTR but is going to high. By me, the user, I have to underexposed too much in order to get something decent. Any post about it? I read this thread.

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #567 on: March 26, 2015, 08:50:34 AM »
@SpcCb: to experiment with dark frames, compile 5ce22358adb5 (not later). This feature caused problems (see last reports); it's not very hard to fix, but it adds quite a bit of complexity (if I fix this, it may delay merging fullres to main tree even more). So I've removed it for now, and revisit it after merging (but the code is still there to experiment with).

What do you mean by "zip exposure time"? (have a link?)

@budafilms: ETTR with the SET option in LiveView will set the exposure for regular pictures, so it will overexpose the silent ones. You need ETTR to meter directly from the silent image - e.g. set it on "always on". You will need to take a few test pictures until the exposure settles (it won't get it right from the first try). But during a timelapse, usually the exposure variations are small enough, and if you close the aperture enough, it will work just fine.

For timelapse, I recommend staying above ~0.5 seconds anyway, otherwise it will be next to impossible to deflicker with current tools (that don't know about the exposure gradient).

Licaon_Kter

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #568 on: March 26, 2015, 12:09:04 PM »
Quote from: Licaon_Kter
I know that using LV display gain with say 3 EV get's things on par though, so maybe this is the solution.
On a second thought... LV Display Gain is no solution as it will disable: Zebras, Spot Meter, False Color, Histogram, Waveform and Vectorscope. :-|

Quote from: a1ex
@Licaon_Kter: I've updated autofocus detection code; can you check whether it still requires 10 iterations, or fewer of them are enough now?
Tested a bit more and the current 5 works ok _most_ of the time, but not always.
I bumped it to 10 and it works better (at least on my M1), I find it's kinda hard to miss press * and have it take a picture now, while with 5 I had to be careful to hold it quickly enough.
Regarding AF slow down, I don't see any but then again, my 22 is rather slow, I'll retest with the 18-55 when I get a chance.

SpcCb

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #569 on: March 26, 2015, 04:43:13 PM »
Quote
@SpcCb: to experiment with dark frames, compile 5ce22358adb5 (not later). This feature caused problems (see last reports); it's not very hard to fix, but it adds quite a bit of complexity (if I fix this, it may delay merging fullres to main tree even more). So I've removed it for now, and revisit it after merging (but the code is still there to experiment with).
I saw it, don't worry ;)

Quote
What do you mean by "zip exposure time"? (have a link?)
I mean camera who have capability to take ultra short exposures by electronic shooter, like 1/10 000s, what is considerate as a 0s exposure (zip => zero, in 'underground' language).
You can find it on cameras made by Finger Lake Instrumentation, The Imaging Source, Santa Barbara Instrument Group, etc.

It is a very important point in scientific imaging because with this kind of camera we can make very precise Master Bias Frames, very hard to get with a camera with a 'long' electronic exposure because we get 'some' thermal signal on frames mixed with other signals. It refers to our discussion about FPN reduction etc.

Beside, it's opening many other applications, like ultra short exposure time for high speed imaging, etc.
Things what we can do with CHDK for example.

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #570 on: March 26, 2015, 04:45:55 PM »
You can do that in LiveView at low resolution (with shutter fine-tune - iirc it does 1/50000 on 60D), but with rolling shutter.

Licaon_Kter

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #571 on: March 26, 2015, 10:47:27 PM »
Bumped into an issue on my M1 (at least using my modified build with 10 cycles): forget FRSP on (MLV or DNG it does not matter) and switch to Movie mode (normal one not RAW)

And now 2 things might happen when you press/hold * for AF
1. When not recording you get a black screen with "Manual (M) mode required" warning
2. When recording you get the same black screen with "Manual (M) mode required"
BUT then the led blinks orange fast and camera shuts down!

Trying to start it again yields led flickering green slower, lens activating and deactivating ( the 22mm is noisy) and then the camera stops. (it did not show anything anyway)

Removing the battery fixes it.

The card has no MOV recorded but there's a 0bytes CRASH.LOG.
Yep, this is why this needs more testing: more users digging up AND reporting issues and avoiding merging in main 'till it's good enough, chicken and egg all the way. :D

Testing the other silent modes while movie is recording:
1. simple - takes the pictures but stops recording when it's done.
2. slit-scan - stops the recording, shows a black screen until you press a button again.

budafilms

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #572 on: March 27, 2015, 07:13:24 AM »
@a1ex

ETTR " Always ON" Works perfect for Silent Picture!

I think more USERS should try this. I will paste the text for more visibility:


@budafilms: ETTR with the SET option in LiveView will set the exposure for regular pictures, so it will overexpose the silent ones. You need ETTR to meter directly from the silent image - e.g. set it on "always on". You will need to take a few test pictures until the exposure settles (it won't get it right from the first try). But during a timelapse, usually the exposure variations are small enough, and if you close the aperture enough, it will work just fine.

a1ex

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #573 on: March 27, 2015, 12:28:39 PM »
@guisquil: if you take a regular picture, outside LiveView, but with silent pics turned off, do you get any crash?

If not, I think it must be a race condition between silent pics and Canon picture taking code, and it might also happen if you try to take a silent pic by fully pressing the shutter (instead of just half-press).

nielsgeode

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Re: Full-resolution silent pictures
« Reply #574 on: March 27, 2015, 12:53:41 PM »
I would like to use the silent picture mode on two bodies:

-5D3 (preferably 1.2.3, but if there is only a 'reliable' build for 1.1.3 I will consider downgrading to 1.1.3). Where can I get the latest build with full-res silent picture for de 5D3 1.1.3?
-550D firmware 1.0.9. Is there a build available for this camera? Of course, I will test it and provide feedback

One other question: I use these bodies extensively on a cognisys stackshot where the camera is triggered with a shutter cable. Unfortunately, this cable only allows full shutter button press. Is there a possibility to configure the camera to take a silent picture in live view when the shutter button is fully pressed? I don't care about autofocus, since everything is manual focus only.

Thanx!
Niels