Author Topic: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues  (Read 62231 times)

hateom

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Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« on: February 26, 2015, 06:20:00 PM »
Hi guys,

I have just published a new post on my site describing how to properly do the roundtrip from Resolve to Premiere and back to Resolve using MLV files.
There are a few problems that we should be aware of and they can make the roundtrip a real mess.
I myself lost a few hours trying to fix a broken project - hopefully this article will help you avoid these :)

http://timeinpixels.com/2015/02/common-resolve-and-premiere-roundtrip-issues/



Steps described in the article:

1. Process MLV files with MLVFS
2. Generate Proxies with DaVinci Resolve (ISSUE #1)
3. Import proxies into Premiere
4. Do the EDIT (ISSUE #2)
5. Export the timeline to XML
6. Import the XML into Resolve, relink the footage to the RAW clips
7. Do the final grading
8. Export the graded clip

andresharambour

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2015, 07:02:41 PM »
This is very helpful. Thanks!

In my workflow I have a few differences:

Up to step 4 everything is exactly the same. But what I do different is I color correct the clips in resolve and export prores 4444 files that I link then in premiere instead of the proxies. So I don't really do any roundtrip, I just update the linked files.

The reason I do it this way (and it's probably not the best way to do it), it's because I use a lot of after effects for some specific effects in some clips, so I prefer not to leave premiere in the process as I have linked files.

It's just my input in the matter, I don't think its the best way to do it, but it has worked for me in my last projects without any issues.

hateom

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2015, 07:58:24 PM »
Thanks for your comment @andresharambour. Well, for me it wouldn't work because I grade quite extensively using masks, power windows, tracks etc. and I would need to do it to the whole clips before cutting. So the only way for me is to either cut directly in Resolve, or cut in Premiere and go back to Resolve to do the grading. And of course it's the best to grade using source (RAW) clips for the best quality possible.

But if all you do in Resolve is some exposure correction, LUT and general adjustments with no special "per clip" operations, your workflow is good enough.

andresharambour

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2015, 02:28:49 PM »
I see what you mean, but I don't think it's that different. In fact, I do "per clip" editing to the whole raw clips without cutting. I just export the graded clips as whole prores clips, which I use to replace the proxies in premiere and after effects.

I'm sure I'm missing something in your explanation. Sorry if I am!

hateom

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2015, 08:40:19 AM »
If I understand correctly, when you have a 5min clip and you only need 3 seconds of it in the edit, you color correct & grade the whole clip and then you export it all to 4444. My point is that it adds processing, time and size to keep this media.

I wonder if there's an easy way to quickly replace proxies with graded clips without exporting the whole clips from Resolve but only the chunks from the edit.

poromaa

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2015, 11:47:05 PM »
I wanted a workflow that does not require intermediate export, since the material will double in size. With MLVFUSE one does not need to leave davinci, but davinci falls short on two things , noise-reduction (lite version) and sound capabilities (some sound formats get messed up and sometimes renders audible glitches).

MLVFS gives DNGs:
Cut in Premiere: Great, but can’t handle the dngs (!) without export to AE as last step. Good sound capabilities and linking to AE.

Cut in Davinci: Great, but no noise reduction and/or AE-links! Problem with sound

My (no-rendering)-workflow is hence:
1. Collect MLV-files on HD,
2. MLVFUSE it to DNGs (no extra space needed)
3. Import and Edit in Premiere (realtime playback, but debayering is awful). until done
4. open in after effects, precompose every single clip (to get it nested - no such function in premiere) export to premiere
5. open in premiere and now replace every single base-clip (reused clips on timeline will use same base clip) with AE-comp
6. In AE, denoise and color correct each clip
7. In premiere, grade (I use colorista) and render.

(skip step 4 if nesting before cutting)

I wish I could skip the back and forth between AE and Premiere, but premiere cant handle DNGs.

Easiest workflow had of course been just to stay in resolve and do everything there, but the noise drives me crazy.
 
Does anyone know a better way keeping footage to a minimum?

hateom

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2015, 10:53:57 AM »
The space is not a big issue - I can generate PROXY in ProRes Proxy format which is quite small, and after the roundtrip I can delete the files (they can be always rendered out of resolve again).
The big advantage of Resolve for me is speed. Rendering dng files from AE is sooo much slower. I used to generate proxy for dng files in AE, but when I discovered how fast it is in Resolve I never looked back. Also, I link to AE only when I really need to. I really try to keep my edit as light as possible, and doing that with small proxy files (that look much better than DNG opened directly in Premiere) works well for me.

Unfortunately editing in Resolve is not ideal, I would rather do everything there. Maybe in the future DaVinci releases it will be possible.

poromaa

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2015, 11:48:57 AM »
After experimenting a whole weekend with different options I like your workflow. I can even start in Premiere with dngs (since I have realtime playback on them) and just do:

1. Process MLV files with MLVFS
2. Generate Proxies with DaVinci Resolve (ISSUE #1)
3. Import proxies into Premiere
4. Do the EDIT (ISSUE #2)
5. Export the timeline to XML
6. Import the XML into Resolve, relink the footage to the RAW clips
7. Do the final grading
8. Export the graded clip


The only thing that is a pain is that the Resolve Lite does not have noise-reduction. This kind of makes my footage break down in the color grade. If I fix that, Im set. Thinking of buying Neat Video (OFX) for this.

 

hateom

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2015, 01:22:08 PM »
That's exactly what I did in order to remove AE from the equation. It's quite expensive, but at least makes my workflow a lot faster and smoother.

dmilligan

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 02:47:28 AM »
I think I can fix the "reel name" thing in MLVFS, there's an optional "reel name" tag in the DNG spec. Hopefully that will work, I'll look into it. Nice tutorial BTW.

hateom

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 11:48:59 AM »
Thanks @dmilligan, that would be great!

ariaelf

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2015, 01:31:07 AM »
After hunting for a solution for two days to the round-trip Resolve 11/Premiere CC issues I was having, I just wanted to share the first thing I found that actually worked. It seems that Premiere CC no longer exports reel/tape names in it's XML files, and this is a known bug that still hasn't been fixed... or so I heard on the Adobe forums.

I went through a lot of different websites, blogs and youtube tutorials to figure out how it could be done without reverting back to Premiere CS6.5 (which worked as it should with the XMLs). Finally I found this...

http://dcinema.me/2015/01/cinemadng-premiere-offline-davinci-resolve-round-trip-workflow-mac/

Even though I am using a PC it worked perfectly. Now my workflow is RAW MLV files from a 7D, convert to DNGs with MLVMystic, import DNGs into Resolve and make smaller sized proxies for editing in Premiere CC, then follow the rest of the tutorial in the link above to relink to the RAW DNGs for color grading, even with the reel names missing in Premiere's XML file.

Hope this helps someone else!

sterid

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2015, 07:10:00 AM »
I have another roundtrip with Davinci+Premiere+After Effects.

GOPRO
-Copy mp4 files from microSD
-Convert mp4 files to MOV
-Move each MOV file to new subfolder (For Reel name in Davinci). I do this with PS script "Copy-GoproFilesToReelSubfolders.ps1"

CANON
-Convert MLV to DNG with PS scrip "Convert-MLVtoDNG.ps1". Script use mlv_dump.exe
-Recover "Hot Pixels" with MLRAWViewer for MLV sequences recorded with high iso

DAVINCI RESOLVE
-Import DNG and MOV files in Davinci Resolve
-Change project settings to BMD Films + Reels from folder name + uncheck use local version for new timelines
-Insert all videos to Timeline (name: 1-Timeline For Proxies)
-Export (name: 1-Timeline For Proxies) with Cineform RGB 16-Bit to "proxy files" *.MOV) or prores for MacOS

ADOBE PREMIERE
-Create new project
-Import all video to project (only *.mov files)
-Edit sequence, add VFX, Noise Reduction and other effect for you need
--work with After Effect to add effects

COLOR GRAIDING
-Export sequence from Adobe Premiere to XML
-Import XML in Davinci Resolve (name: 2-Imported From Premiere)
-change color for each clip in sequence
-Mark all video in sequence with blue flag (or other color)
-Add all clips with blue flag to new sequence (name: 3-Timeline For Grading Video Output)
-Export sequence (name: 3-Timeline For Grading Video Output) to proxy files folder
-Return to Adobe Premiere and see colored clips

My benefits:
-You can do "round trip" infinite number of times
-Adobe Premiere has only one sequence
-All VFX and other settings in Adobe Premiere on "same place" after round trip because you don`t change  anything
-Always change only proxy files
-Proxy files always same (length and other) because you export original files, that color traced with imported sequence
-Color grading for actual sequence (after change in AP just do new import to DR)





techniques

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2015, 09:41:45 PM »
I'll toss in my two cents here as well for a method I've found to work.

I use the Sony FS700 with the Odyssey 7Q and often record to Cinema DNG format.

1. Import DNGs in to Resolve
2. Basic Trimming on clips to save space and time when exporting proxies
3. Basic Color Correction (optional)
4. Deliver – Set to Round Trip to Final Cut, and export as DNxHD
**36mb/sec if your computer can’t handle editing anything more than that**
5. In Resolve, go back to Edit tab and export XML of the Timeline and save to same place as the exported files
6. Open PPro and Import XML
7. Do basic blocking and tackling for edits in PPro
**Keep in mind time remapping (rate stretch still works though), nests, PPro titles, AE comps and various effects may not transfer back to Resolve for your trip back there. Keep things simple for this, and be sure to move everything down as close to one track of video if possible.**
8. Export XML from PPro
9. Import XML in Resolve and uncheck “auto import”
10. Do your final grades to each clip
11. Deliver – Set to QuickTime Uncompressed 10bit RGB (these will be massive files)
12. In PPro – right click on folder of proxied footage and select “Make Offline”, then right click again and “Link Media” to the selected destination where you saved your final graded clips.
13. Turn on VFX, titles, AE comps, nests, time ramps, etc.

See a full write up about this workflow here, complete with screenshots:
http://www.fieldtechnique.com/tripping-with-resolve/

jplew

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2015, 02:40:33 AM »
I went through a lot of different websites, blogs and youtube tutorials to figure out how it could be done without reverting back to Premiere CS6.5 (which worked as it should with the XMLs). Finally I found this...

http://dcinema.me/2015/01/cinemadng-premiere-offline-davinci-resolve-round-trip-workflow-mac/

Even though I am using a PC it worked perfectly. Now my workflow is RAW MLV files from a 7D, convert to DNGs with MLVMystic, import DNGs into Resolve and make smaller sized proxies for editing in Premiere CC, then follow the rest of the tutorial in the link above to relink to the RAW DNGs for color grading, even with the reel names missing in Premiere's XML file.

I appreciate the link. I'm also using PC, so am curious what format you used for your smaller-sized proxies. Windows can't export to Prores 422 Proxy, so what is the best alternative?

Thanks a lot.

ccarit3007

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2016, 07:37:07 AM »
I have a question and can't seem to find a proper answer....or possibly I don't know how to read. This is my current workflow

1. Convert MLV's to cDNG's using RawMagic
2. Import cDNG's into Resolve and do a base grade
3. Export proxies from resolve (.mov's)
4. Import proxies into Premiere and do the main edit
5. Export XML from Premiere
6. Import XML into Resolve and relink with raw files
7. Do a final color grade in Resolve and export clips at top resolution
8. Import and relink full res files into Premiere for final export

Where do effects come into play? Say I need to add some muzzle flashes and other effects in after effects?
My thoughts:
I was thinking of exporting the specific clips needed for SFX at full res before the final grade, import into AE, do the effects, then export as a DPX from AE. Import these DPX files into Resolve, then do the final grade along with the other clips, and export at full res, then back to premiere.

Would I lose quality on these few specific SFX clips? There is no way to add effects in AE then export back to a cDNG is there?

Kharak

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2016, 08:57:10 PM »
Rawmagic is not supported here.

The developer of Rawmagic steals codes under GPL licences and makes you pay for it, so you're biggest issue is Rawmagic at the start of your workflow. Take a look at MLP and/or MLVFS.
once you go raw you never go back

ccarit3007

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2016, 06:37:50 AM »
Okay am now using MLP. Regardless of what I am using to convert, I still have the lingering question of when VFX come in?

dfort

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2016, 07:05:37 AM »
There is no way to add effects in AE then export back to a cDNG is there?

Ah yes--the dilemma, what file format to save effects files. Raw isn't an option because once you DeBayer the frames to work with them you can't Bayer them back--if that's even the correct terminology.

I was thinking of exporting the specific clips needed for SFX at full res before the final grade, import into AE, do the effects, then export as a DPX from AE. Import these DPX files into Resolve, then do the final grade along with the other clips, and export at full res, then back to premiere.

Would I lose quality on these few specific SFX clips?

That is a good idea. DPX frames aren't compressed and you can save them in a log gamma format so that you have pretty much as much flexibility in color grading as you have with the raw files. There shouldn't be any loss in quality as long as you get the white balance nailed on your DPX frames.

Another option is to save the effects clips as EXR. These are smaller files with greater dynamic range than DPX and are becoming more popular with the visual effects production houses.

I've got a friend who is a DP and works on major studio features. It is interesting to note that he no longer shoots Arri Raw and instead uses ProRes 4444 XQ for everything including the VFX shots. The compression is very slight and virtually lossless.

ccarit3007

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Re: Common DaVinci Resolve and Premiere Pro roundtrip issues
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2016, 09:01:09 AM »
Ah okay awesome, I see. Thats interesting about the ProRes 4444 XQ, just did some research on it, pretty cool. Thanks for the reply!