Author Topic: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?  (Read 23911 times)

steffenhaldrup

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2014, 11:59:48 AM »
martin_a is correct, in Premiere Pro CC 2014 the intended workflow for all 'raw' footage is to import CinemaDNG then grade in Speedgrade - not in ACR. This is the only way to deliver realtime hardware-accelerated playback - the rendering engines in Sg and Pr are Mercury-enabled whereas the ACR "develop" module route is an old-school frame server. Because you can now pass a project back and forth between Sg and Pr it doesn't matter which one you start in.

If you really want to stay with ACR then pipe your footage through an After Effects comp - but of course you'll lose MPE playback.

DFM, according to the mentioned AE/ACR workflow. Do you start in AE and then render lossless and import in PP? Or do you make some "dynamic link"?

sergiocamara93

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2014, 01:43:16 PM »
DNGs from RAWMagic work fine in both the old and new Premiere until you adjust the exposure using the new Lumetri controls. Once you drop the exposure, the pink highlights show up. Can you try this and see if you get the pink highlights? The footage must be overexposed for this to work.
Yes, I've tried tweaking the settings. With both 12bit and 16bit Cdng coming from raw2dng there are pink highlights, they "disappear" (burn) if I adjust the exposure slider to overexpose them (therefore losing detail and DR), in Resolve and ACR they are obviously fine. The flickering issue doesn't show up and the performance is oddly better with 16bit files than with 12bit ones in my system, which is weird to say the least.
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chmee

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2014, 02:47:59 PM »
When i'm back home, i'll do so me Tests. By now there is the linearizationtable inside to act like a bmcc file. I assume, without it it could behave better. Now in 8.0..

eyeland

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2014, 05:44:10 PM »
*holds breath…
This is an interesting development to say the least. Are the issues limited to ml raw or are there reports of other raw files causing similar issues?
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reddeercity

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2014, 11:10:53 PM »
Hi all, Here the screen capture I talked about in my other post on this subject, My biggest problem or 2 problems that needs to be look at.
1) For source image setting for Cdng's It Really needs the ACR plugin to come up no the Very Weak W.B., tint, & exposure controls
They really don't help much, if any think it messes up the image.
2) The Need for external Monitoring to a proper color corrected monitor, this is a Must & a Deal Breaker for me. Everyone else seems to have this functions
but not adobe, Why Not ? FCPX, Vegas video, Autodesk Smoke for mac, etc... All have this . I would like to hear from adobe for the reason .
any ways here the video  :D

DFM

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2014, 01:29:52 PM »
@reddeercity:

1) There's no simple route within Premiere Pro CC 2014 to use the ACR grading engine, it's been entirely replaced by Speedgrade and Dynamic Link. Note the "source settings" panel displayed by PrCC2014 when you bring in CinemaDNG footage isn't intended for grading, it's just a way to match the hardware so it looks vaguely "normal" on the source monitor. All the heavy-lifting to color-correct and grade the footage happens afterwards, ideally within Sg (or by creating a Lumetri LUT in Sg and applying it in Pr). If you want to use ACR to adjust your cDNGs, you have to use After Effects (in response to steffenhaldrup you can use Dynamic Link or render to a mezzanine format, it's up to you - Dynamic Link won't give you MPE-enabled playback in Premiere as you're still pulling single frames, but you benefit from real-time updates when you tweak something in AE.

2) You can absolutely use a second display for monitoring - either a second computer monitor or a hardware output device feeding a reference TV. Just open Premiere's Preferences > Playback and tick the box you want under "Video Device". You even have offset fields to account for any loop delay between the audio and video hardware. Be careful when using computer displays fed from a consumer graphics card as not all of them allow individual calibration of each display, so people tend to require physically different cards or a multi-head pro series card. For example the video-out port on a laptop is rarely able to hold a separate calibration from the laptop's own panel.

The change to a Pr<>Sg pipeline takes a bit of mental adjustment; I agree that for our specific workflow it doesn't help much, but ML cDNGs are very much an edge case. The pipelines for CC 2014 are designed with digital cinema projects in mind, where Sg is an established tool - usually in the hands of a dedicated colorist - and the idea of adjusting 'video' footage in Camera Raw is very alien. The new workflow is optimized for true "cinema" cameras (BlackMagic etc), so while the Sg team admitted support for ML-5DIII in their blog it's not an advertized feature, and it's entirely a by-product of support for other hardware. Some flavors work, some don't, but to put it bluntly if you can make your ML files exactly the same internal format to BMCC's footage, it will work perfectly. So far you're close, but not close enough.

Yes, the old ACR > Pr workflow was more flexible, as you weren't limited in what you could feed the frame server - but it caused no end of hassle for pros as it put a bunch of important grading decisions at the front of the pipe. That's not how studios work.

actingnurse

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2014, 02:28:20 PM »
Hey everyone - finally got a chance to play with CC 14. I imported the CDNG into premiere and everything looks great, but when I go to play back it's not realtime.. it gets kind of choppy. I have 24Gb DDR3 PC1600, use the CUDI setting to pull from my GeForce GTX670M card, and have an i7 processor... I thought that should be more than enough for playback. I'm just playing with test shots now, but this will be a major issue once I go to cut together my next short. Any thoughts or tips to get realtime?

Midphase

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2014, 06:58:07 PM »
Hey everyone - finally got a chance to play with CC 14. I imported the CDNG into premiere and everything looks great, but when I go to play back it's not realtime.. it gets kind of choppy. I have 24Gb DDR3 PC1600, use the CUDA setting to pull from my GeForce GTX670M card, and have an i7 processor... I thought that should be more than enough for playback. I'm just playing with test shots now, but this will be a major issue once I go to cut together my next short. Any thoughts or tips to get realtime?

Most people put all the emphasis on CPU, and they don't realize that a major bottleneck is the speed of the drive that's serving the media. You make no mention whatsoever of what drive all of those CDNG files are living on. According to my tests, most 7200rpm drives can barely sustain 80Mb/sec, and I believe 16bit CDNG require more bandwidth than that. My solution has been to use a RAID 0 made up of 2 7200rpm Barracuda drives which gets me in the 150Mb/sec which is more capable of realtime playback. Since you mention that your GPU is a mobile one, then I assume you're on a laptop. My advice would be to suggest you put all your media on an SSD drive then.


actingnurse

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2014, 07:10:45 PM »
Yes - I'm on as ASUS ROG laptop. Has beast specs... but the HDD is a 7200RPM 1Tb. I have a second bay for an SSD drive, but dont have one in there. So if I keep the 1TB for storage space and put in a 480Gb Sata 3 SSD should that cover it? I think I'm set on GPU, RAM, and CPU.  What's the best Raid config? Should I store all media on the SSD? Should apps and OS go on the SSD too for load speed? Sorry for all of the q's - haven't done this before.

Thanks!

Midphase

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2014, 09:43:09 PM »
You need to decide if you're determined to work with CDNG raw files or if you're going to transcode to ProRes, DNxHD or some other compressed format.

If it's CDNG, then I think the media needs to live on the SSD drive. Unfortunately SSD drives aren't that big and are pricey. Ideally you'd want 2 SSD drives in that laptop, a 500Gb for media, and either a 240 or 500 for your apps.

IMHO 7200 rpm mechanical drives (particularly ones for laptops) are not going to give you a satisfactory performance when working with raw CDNG files.

actingnurse

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2014, 10:10:28 PM »
Since I'm still yet to successfully pull off a Davinci --> Avid --> Davinci workflow, I'll probably stick with the Adobe route. I can import straight into Premiere, cut my film, shoot it to Speedgrade to color, then back to Premiere.. right? I'm also waiting to see what Davinci's NLE looks like too... so I will probably be sticking with Native CDNG just because I'm a dummy when it comes to all of the proxy/roundtrip stuff....

actingnurse

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2014, 10:19:18 PM »
Would it be better to buy one 1TB SSD drive or 2 500Gb SSD's? Looks like a pair of 500Gb's would run $500 and one 1Tb would run about $400.

jrumans

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2014, 06:29:07 AM »
It is a shot in the dark, but I hope someone from Adobe will respond.  If anyone wants to add to it, that would be greatly appreciated:

https://forums.adobe.com/message/6482710#6482710
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reddeercity

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2014, 06:49:24 AM »
What Raw2Cdng Converter are you using? or is it RawMagic ?
From my test the only 16bit Cdng the works is the raw2cdng v1.4.9 from chmee
RawMagic has the pink hi-light problem also, it's because the color matrix has been change
to emulate blackmagic cinema camera etc... so I have found that  raw2cdng v1.4.9 dose not have this
change. And to note there also work perfectly in Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1.
Just try a different converter and see if it's still a problem.

Midphase

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2014, 06:59:24 AM »
Would it be better to buy one 1TB SSD drive or 2 500Gb SSD's? Looks like a pair of 500Gb's would run $500 and one 1Tb would run about $400.

I didn't realize there are 1Tb SSD drives available already. Pretty cool actually, do you have a link you can post to the one you're looking at?

But to answer your question, I think it's preferable to have 1 drive for apps and OS, and 1 for nothing but your media.

jrumans

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2014, 07:00:38 AM »
What Raw2Cdng Converter are you using? or is it RawMagic ?
From my test the only 16bit Cdng the works is the raw2cdng v1.4.9 from chmee
RawMagic has the pink hi-light problem also, it's because the color matrix has been change
to emulate blackmagic cinema camera etc... so I have found that  raw2cdng v1.4.9 dose not have this
change. And to note there also work perfectly in Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1.
Just try a different converter and see if it's still a problem.

I am using Rawmagic, but pink highlights or not - I still want to use ACR. 
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actingnurse

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2014, 02:25:51 AM »
What Raw2Cdng Converter are you using? or is it RawMagic ?
From my test the only 16bit Cdng the works is the raw2cdng v1.4.9 from chmee

I'm importing and using the CDNGs just fine (minus the non realtime playback issue b/c of not having a SSD) using raw2cdng 1.5.0 beta 6 on Adobe Premiere CC 2014. Hopefully speed issues will be resolved when I pick up a couple of SSDs.

actingnurse

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2014, 02:44:20 AM »
I didn't realize there are 1Tb SSD drives available already. Pretty cool actually, do you have a link you can post to the one you're looking at?

Here's the 1TB SSD from Seagate that I plan on adding. May pick up two and replace my 1TB HDD... Would that make a big difference?

Link to SSD: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electronics-EVO-Series-2-5-Inch-MZ-7TE1T0BW/dp/B00E3W16OU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403483168&sr=8-1&keywords=1tb+ssd

jrumans

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2014, 07:58:00 AM »
It appears they are working on a fix:

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1500841

I hope it works out in our favor.
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reddeercity

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2014, 11:29:58 AM »
@DFM
thanks for your information , But there is still no Video preview with Premiere Pro 8 cc & A.E. cc 2014 .
I have tried to get my Blackmagic Ultra Studio SDI to work on 2 different PC's(win7 pro) (installed new driver etc..). One's my i7 Toshiba laptop with dual gpu's (gt630m,intelHD4000). The Blackmagic Ultra Studio SDI comes up in the video preview box but nothing happens just black screen!
The other was my PC Workstation AMD FX8350 dual GPU's GTX580 (did not come up in video preview box)  And on the my MacPro mid2010 (maverick-10.9.1) with GTX760 my AJA Kona Lhi dose not come up either. But with A.E. cc (12.2.1.5) work prefect , on PC & Mac. No problem with any other software on the mac or pc.

This is to bad for I was going to start a new project I shot on the weekend (green screen music video in Raw) but I can't monitor properly.
So until Adobe can fix this It's a open exr-->autodesk smoke for mac project  or BM Resolve  . I do what to put Adobe in my workflow but, not on a
 broken software. The adobe forum is full of people with problems right now, I guess Resolve is looking better and better every day now just need them to release it.
I can not recommend people to use this software in a professional environment at the monument  in my own opinion that is. 
 
 

Midphase

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2014, 05:58:41 PM »
Has anyone tried to do a Dynamic Link from CDNG clips in Premiere to Aftereffects?

In my tests, the CDNG sequence comes into Aftereffects as a single frozen frame and doesn't playback. The solution that I found is to replace the footage in Aftereffects after the Dynamic Linking with the CDNG sequence, but this is a clunky workaround.

Does anyone know if there's a way to send a Dynamic Link to Aftereffects where things actually work as they should?

timbytheriver

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2014, 07:03:20 PM »
@Midphase

Looks like others are discussing this on the adobe blogs https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1503256 :(

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eyeland

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2014, 07:42:32 PM »
Seems that the best workflow for me is still to grade in ACR, render HQ 444 DNxHD proxies, edit in Pr, re-link footage to CDNG sequence and do a final grade in SG. Just so bloody hard to get the look I am after in SG after so many years of ACR :)
About the disk issue, its worth noting that many high-end laptops have an available mPci slot that can hold an additional SSD making for a total of 3 drives (when replacing the optical drive with a caddy)
In this way, one could run 2x 512gb SSD + a 1TB 7200 (possibly a hybrid-drive) to keep the cost a bit lower.

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Midphase

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2014, 12:32:32 AM »
I'm switching to Resolve 11. After watching the video of the new NLE capabilities, I'm convinced that Resolve will do 90% of what I need to do.

For having actually invented the format, Adobe sure has a weird way of supporting CDNG.

reddeercity

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Re: Premiere pro 8.0 native support?
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2014, 12:54:02 AM »
I think your right, I will give Resolve 11 a workout with my new project and see what happen,
just downloading now  ;D