Author Topic: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture  (Read 39971 times)

ariaelf

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Hi all,

Love the amazing work that ML has been doing. I am in the process of putting together a "no budget" (under 10k) feature film, and looking to use a pair of DSLRs with ML to capture RAW footage. I currently have a pair of 60D cameras, but learned unfortunately too late that the resolution of the RAW files on the 60D is vastly different for a 6 second burst, and continuous 24fps recording.

I may now have to sell of the 60D's and purchase different cameras in order to get HD quality RAW footage in continuous shots... and I don't want to make another big mistake. What would be the best camera to go with? I was thinking about the 7D, but according to the "current capabilities" chart, there is still a question as towhether it can do 1728x972 at 24fps?

And if I had the 7D, or another DSLR, could I shoot long shots - say for 10 minutes straight in RAW with a sufficiently large card, or would there be some other technical obstacle?

Thank-you in advance for your help! :)

~Ariaelf

Midphase

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2014, 12:17:33 AM »
First of all, congratulations on making a no-budget sub-$10k feature film; the world simply doesn't have enough of those!

Secondly, if you can get your hands on a 5D3, that is the camera you want. If you can't get your hands on a 5D3, then your next best bet would be the Blackmagic Pocket Camera.

The 7D is a distant 3rd, with poor low light capability, lots of noise and stuck pixels at higher ISO's, and sub HD resolution. I shot with two 7D's, and halfway through the shoot we opted (smartly) to upgrade to two 5D3's which made everyone considerably happier.

reddeercity

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2014, 12:24:50 AM »
The 2 Best Camera's are the 5D2 & 5D3 , the 5D3 has a little more capabilities e.g. Full HD @30p continuous , no moiré and aliasing in 1:1 mode but more expensive.
The 5D2 dose 2:1 A.R. at (1872x936 older build not in newer builds) 1856x928 @ 23.976 with audio continuous on 1000x CF Card, Crop mode 2k without any moiré and aliasing and less expensive.
I have seen used 5D2 go for from as little $800.0 to $1,500.0 with low activation (about 5000) and the 5D3 is about twice that or buy new .


Midphase

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2014, 05:54:11 AM »
In my tests, the 5D2 actually performed a bit worse than the 7D, however it does have a bit better low light capability.

I still have to recommend the Blackmagic Pocket as a solid contender for very low budget productions looking to shoot in raw.

ariaelf

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2014, 08:24:22 AM »
First of all, congratulations on making a no-budget sub-$10k feature film; the world simply doesn't have enough of those!

I hope that isn't blatant sarcasm... lol

Secondly, if you can get your hands on a 5D3, that is the camera you want. If you can't get your hands on a 5D3, then your next best bet would be the Blackmagic Pocket Camera.
Well... back to that whole "under 10k budget for the whole film" thing... there is no way we can shell out $3500 for one camera. And we're actually looking to have two cameras, to shoot from multiple angles at once for some of the improvised scenes.

The 7D is a distant 3rd, with poor low light capability, lots of noise and stuck pixels at higher ISO's, and sub HD resolution. I shot with two 7D's, and halfway through the shoot we opted (smartly) to upgrade to two 5D3's which made everyone considerably happier.

Isn't great dynamic range / being able to correct the lighting one of the biggest reasons for shooting in raw? That said, we are using a decent light set up, not just running around pointing at things.... low light capability is not as high on the priority list. I prefer to shoot at ISO 160, and never above 640 on the 60D, and have been happy with it. I also have fast lenses. What do you mean by sub HD? It shoots full 1080...

If you can go for a 7k upgrade half way through the shoot more power to you! :) But that's not going to be possible for this project.

ariaelf

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 08:30:27 AM »
In my tests, the 5D2 actually performed a bit worse than the 7D, however it does have a bit better low light capability.

I still have to recommend the Blackmagic Pocket as a solid contender for very low budget productions looking to shoot in raw.

Well that's good, because we won't be able to afford a pair of 5D2's or 5D3s.... :)

When you used the 7D, were you able to record 1728x972 continuous RAW? I want to make sure this is possible before getting one.

My other question, is how long can you shoot RAW for... is it possible to do a 10 minute take, or does the FAT32/4Gig thing mess that up? Is there a way around it?

Lastly, how much space does a minute of RAW full HD footage on the 7D take? I'm trying to estimate the cost of fast & large CF cards, computer hard drives, etc.

I will also have a look at the BMPocketcam... several people have mentioned it. I just don't know the "real cost". Black Magic's previous camera was "only" 3k... until you actually got what you needed in order to make it work on a set. Then it was 5k+ :P

dmilligan

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 04:39:49 PM »
Lastly, how much space does a minute of RAW full HD footage on the 7D take? I'm trying to estimate the cost of fast & large CF cards, computer hard drives, etc.

Size in GB = (W * H * FPS * Time * 14/8) / 2^30

Example:
1728 * 972 * 24fps * (60s) * 14/8 / 2^30 = 4GB

Midphase

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2014, 05:57:23 PM »
I hope that isn't blatant sarcasm... lol
Well... back to that whole "under 10k budget for the whole film" thing... there is no way we can shell out $3500 for one camera. And we're actually looking to have two cameras, to shoot from multiple angles at once for some of the improvised scenes.

Isn't great dynamic range / being able to correct the lighting one of the biggest reasons for shooting in raw? That said, we are using a decent light set up, not just running around pointing at things.... low light capability is not as high on the priority list. I prefer to shoot at ISO 160, and never above 640 on the 60D, and have been happy with it. I also have fast lenses. What do you mean by sub HD? It shoots full 1080...

If you can go for a 7k upgrade half way through the shoot more power to you! :) But that's not going to be possible for this project.

I always enjoy it when the person asking the questions turns out to be a know-it-all who apparently has already all the information that he needs. Were you just testing us?

First of all, rental is always an option. We rented the 5D3 for about $100/week.

Secondly, I also mentioned the Blackmagic Pocket which retails for about $1000, all in all is a superior camera to shoot something as important as a feature length project. I could tell you about all the various other issues that we had with the 7D (which is only slightly less expensive than the Blackmagic...if you buy it used on eBay) but apparently you already seem to be the expert so why should I bother?

And lastly, no, the 7D doesn't shoot at 1080p, you'll have to upsize in post.

P.S.

About the added cost of the Blackmagic -- guess what...that is true for all cameras. You will need a bunch of cards, extra batteries, some sort of rig, lenses etc. If anything, the Pocket is the least expensive to outfit well for a shoot (i.e. you won't need to tag on a $500 Anton-Bauer external battery rig as you would on the 4K). Also, the SD cards required by the Blackmagic Pocket are, if anything, a bit less expensive than the cheapest Komputerbay cards you'll need for the 7D, and a lot less expensive for the better name brands like Lexars.

ariaelf

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 07:55:27 PM »
I always enjoy it when the person asking the questions turns out to be a know-it-all who apparently has already all the information that he needs. Were you just testing us?

Really, a "know-it-all"? I started the thread by saying I had no idea the 60D raw capabilities were so limited it only shot near HD size for all of 6 seconds... and continuous recording turned out to be a pitiful 960x540. Hardly "knowing it all" I would say.

I am double checking everything because I don't need another expensive mistake that pushes our film further off schedule. I am here to double check facts, not "test" anyone.

Oh, and I'm a "she" actually. Don't know too many dudes named "Aria".

First of all, rental is always an option. We rented the 5D3 for about $100/week.

Wish I could, but we will be shooting over a period of 6 months.

Secondly, I also mentioned the Blackmagic Pocket which retails for about $1000, all in all is a superior camera to shoot something as important as a feature length project. I could tell you about all the various other issues that we had with the 7D (which is only slightly less expensive than the Blackmagic...if you buy it used on eBay) but apparently you already seem to be the expert so why should I bother?

Feel free to drop the snarky attitude at any time. I'm looking for real world answers for those who've used the 7D raw hack in the real world, not sarcasm.

And no, the 7D is not "only slightly less expensive than the Blackmagic."

And lastly, no, the 7D doesn't shoot at 1080p, you'll have to upsize in post.

Yes, but upscaling 10% isn't what worries me. I wasn't sure how long the clip length could be shooting 1728x972, or if it was even really possible given the question mark on the current capabilities spreadsheet. Can anyone who's actually used the 7D raw hack tell me if they could get 5 or 10 minute clips of 1728x972 RAW? Or does the camera stop after a short time, or get glitchy?

About the added cost of the Blackmagic -- guess what...that is true for all cameras. You will need a bunch of cards, extra batteries, some sort of rig, lenses etc. If anything, the Pocket is the least expensive to outfit well for a shoot (i.e. you won't need to tag on a $500 Anton-Bauer external battery rig as you would on the 4K). Also, the SD cards required by the Blackmagic Pocket are, if anything, a bit less expensive than the cheapest Komputerbay cards you'll need for the 7D, and a lot less expensive for the better name brands like Lexars.

Well the difference would be that all my 60D lenses and batteries work just fine with a 7D and nothing new has to be purchased, aside from the CF cards. But with the Blackmagic Pocket Cam, not only does it cost twice as much right off the bat because you can't get it used, I would also need a completely different set of lenses, would would be a few more grand.... and tons and tons of batteries according to PB because it eats them like candy unlike the 7D, and those batteries are expensive. To rig up a single BMPC for the film would be around 3-4k whereas a 7D would be around 1-1.5k (buying it used, getting CF cards) so thats a huge difference when you need TWO cameras, and the total budget is around $10,000 for the whole film.

ariaelf

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2014, 08:02:11 PM »
Size in GB = (W * H * FPS * Time * 14/8) / 2^30

Example:
1728 * 972 * 24fps * (60s) * 14/8 / 2^30 = 4GB

Woohoo! Thank-you Dmilligan, that's hugely helpful :)

aace

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2014, 10:18:50 PM »
Hi Aria,

I've been in and out of the forums daily checking up on the updates of the 7D raw functionality. I've even shared a little of my experiences specifically for the 7D. To be fair I've been using the Tragic Lantern builds but I expect the newer Magic Lantern builds are the same. You can check out the links below which might help you out without having to repeat myself or others. Hopefully these links help.


7D skipping frames - clarify write speeds
http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11789.0

How many minutes of RAW footage does a 32gb or 64gb hold?
http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11656.0

7D and the SanDisk 160 Mb/s
http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11617.0

Workaround for pink/magenta highlights in overexposed footage
http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11802.0

Midphase

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2014, 10:43:35 PM »
Well the difference would be that all my 60D lenses and batteries work just fine with a 7D and nothing new has to be purchased, aside from the CF cards. But with the Blackmagic Pocket Cam, not only does it cost twice as much right off the bat because you can't get it used, I would also need a completely different set of lenses, would would be a few more grand.... and tons and tons of batteries according to PB because it eats them like candy unlike the 7D, and those batteries are expensive. To rig up a single BMPC for the film would be around 3-4k whereas a 7D would be around 1-1.5k (buying it used, getting CF cards) so thats a huge difference when you need TWO cameras, and the total budget is around $10,000 for the whole film.

I disagree on your cost assessment, you basically only need a micro 4/3 to EF adapter (about $10 on eBay), SD cards (which as I mentioned are actually more cost effective than el-cheapo CF cards), and some batteries which B&H sells for as cheap as $14 a piece.

Most completed eBay listings on 7D's are in the high $700's to $900, so yes, it's a bit cheaper...a bit. EP6 batteries are more expensive (even the off brand), CF cards are also up there particularly if you go with the more reliable Lexars. Also, shooting in raw will definitely use up batteries faster than in normal mode. Ultimately you're still running a hack on a camera which until fairly recently wasn't even supported. You'll be dealing with glitchy external monitoring, no playback, and the constant fear of not really knowing if the footage you just captured is corrupted.

I'm not saying this because I pulled this info out of my ass, I'm saying it because I've shot extensively with the 7D and ultimately it just wasn't up to my work standards.

I think the 5D3 is pretty much the only camera of the bunch which yield a workable reliability with somewhat reliable external monitoring, good ISO/noise ratio, no moire/aliasing, full 1080p resolution, a CF bus fast enough to handle audio and video simultaneously (will come in handy for sync purposes in post), and is the least prone to errors.

You're of course free to go and learn from your own mistakes, but you did ask for opinions.

Your words "What would be the best camera to go with?" 

I think the polite response to my post would have been to acknowledge the information instead of immediately shooting down everything I shared...then again I suppose maybe I have different standards.


ariaelf

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2014, 11:54:38 PM »
I disagree on your cost assessment, you basically only need a micro 4/3 to EF adapter (about $10 on eBay), SD cards (which as I mentioned are actually more cost effective than el-cheapo CF cards), and some batteries which B&H sells for as cheap as $14 a piece.

The problem with your assumption is that those EF lenses are going to look completely different on a micro 4/3rds sensor, and you can kiss your shallow depth of field and wide angles goodbye unless you buy new expensive fast glass specifically with the pocket cam in mind. The add the cost of the $500 speedboster and the fact that your BM batteries can't be recharged without actually using the camera as a charger, and you'll need a dozen of those batteries to get through a shooting day.

So I either buy new glass that is incredibly fast and wide (ie expensive) so that I can get the look I want on a much much smaller sensor, and buy a whole new set of batteries, along with a brand new, relatively untested $1000 camera, or use the multiple canon batteries I already have, the glass I already have, and get a 7D + a $300 fast CF card or two, with 128gb of room on it.

Everyone's situation is different, and I'm sure the BMPC is great for some, but based on my research the past couple days I'm definitely leaning towards the 7D.

Most completed eBay listings on 7D's are in the high $700's to $900, so yes, it's a bit cheaper...a bit. EP6 batteries are more expensive (even the off brand), CF cards are also up there particularly if you go with the more reliable Lexars. Also, shooting in raw will definitely use up batteries faster than in normal mode. Ultimately you're still running a hack on a camera which until fairly recently wasn't even supported. You'll be dealing with glitchy external monitoring, no playback, and the constant fear of not really knowing if the footage you just captured is corrupted.

I've seen used 7D's going for $500-$600 in my area on Craigslist, as well as on ebay. The EP6 batteries may be more expensive, but since I already have a bunch of them as it is, that's not really relevant. Buying a bunch of new batteries for a pocket cam is though...  Haven't heard of the Lexars, most of the RAW test videos I have seen online use the Komputerbay CF cards, which are about $300 for 128gb on eBay right now.

Perhaps the glitches have improved since your experience. ML continues to get better, and if it were as terrible and likely to be corrupted as you say, no one would be filming with it.

I'm not saying this because I pulled this info out of my ass, I'm saying it because I've shot extensively with the 7D and ultimately it just wasn't up to my work standards.

Okay. But if we're having a discussion about it, understand that your singular experience and your particular standards (and budget) are not everyone's - and it's rather annoying that you keep insisting I purchase something which costs twice as much that I'm not in the market for.

I think the 5D3 is pretty much the only camera of the bunch which yield a workable reliability with somewhat reliable external monitoring, good ISO/noise ratio, no moire/aliasing, full 1080p resolution, a CF bus fast enough to handle audio and video simultaneously (will come in handy for sync purposes in post), and is the least prone to errors.

Wow, okay, we're back to the "just buy this 3.5k camera...." What part of 10k budget total was unclear?

There is no moire/aliasing with the proper filter. And good old fashioned clapboards will sync your audio fine. Sure the 7D is 10% shy of full HD resolution in raw. Am I going to pay 3x as much money for that extra 10%? No, I am not.

You're of course free to go and learn from your own mistakes, but you did ask for opinions.

Your words "What would be the best camera to go with?" 

I think the polite response to my post would have been to acknowledge the information instead of immediately shooting down everything I shared...then again I suppose maybe I have different standards.

You are absolutely right, and you are certainly full of opinions.

There was nothing impolite about my responding to your suggestions with the facts of our production and budget. Just because I didn't do everything you said does not mean I was "shooting down everything" or a"know it all". Grow up. Telling me to spend 3.5K on a camera is like telling some kid hacking his T2i to buy an Alexa. "It's way better for RAW! It's totally worth it!" *roll eyes*

If you can show me a workable solution that is somewhere in the same $$$ ballpark, then I'm all ears. 

ariaelf

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2014, 11:55:15 PM »
Hi Aria,

I've been in and out of the forums daily checking up on the updates of the 7D raw functionality. I've even shared a little of my experiences specifically for the 7D. To be fair I've been using the Tragic Lantern builds but I expect the newer Magic Lantern builds are the same. You can check out the links below which might help you out without having to repeat myself or others. Hopefully these links help.


7D skipping frames - clarify write speeds
http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11789.0

How many minutes of RAW footage does a 32gb or 64gb hold?
http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11656.0

7D and the SanDisk 160 Mb/s
http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11617.0

Workaround for pink/magenta highlights in overexposed footage
http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11802.0

Thanks! :)

reddeercity

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2014, 01:03:22 AM »
Everthing Midphase Said was actuate and true ! I agree with him on that  :)
(Experience is the Greatest Teacher and there a Wealth of Knowledge Here Only if you Listen thou!)
You are just being argumentative the 7d is Ok ,
why upgrade to that when for about the same price you can get 5D2, full frame, 100% Stable with MLV+audio V2.0 or Raw v1.0 no crop-factor in 1:1 .
As much as I Promote the 5D2 , it suffer the same fate as the 7D Limited Hardware & capabilities . But it's the most stable, I plan on upgrade to a 5D3
As some as my budget allows for it, ever thou it with cost $$$$ it's a very Good and Smart investment that will out Last all other Canon EOS.
Even thou you are on a Budget, Make sure you do Your research and not jump to any conclusion and be honest with yourself  ;D


ariaelf

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2014, 01:36:05 AM »
I must do math differently then you guys, if $1000 is "about the same price as" $3500.

ariaelf

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2014, 01:37:37 AM »
According to the chart, 5Dmk2 does not support exFat. Which means that lovely full HD raw is going to be limited to clips only a few seconds long unless I'm missing something...

That advice about listening goes both ways. Touting features which are a negative instead of a positive in my situation, is not going to convince me to get a far more expensive camera. Full frame means replacing all the glass I have already bought for crop factor... not something I want to do. And nothing screams "tacky DSLR footage" like razor-thing depth of field coming from a full frame like the 5dmk2. To each their own, but it's not my style.

nick.p

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"No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2014, 01:53:53 AM »
Have you looked into selling the 5d3's after the shooting has finished? You won't lose too much value and you will have a far more stable setup.

Don't forget if you plan to shot in non-crop mode you will absolutely need a vaf filter for the 7d. It suffers quite badly from moire. Fortunately if you use the correct post-processing technique then you can mostly fix the ISO banding.

Also the 5Dii and 7d don't support exfat but the clips automatically split themselves at the 4gb mark.

Good luck!

ariaelf

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2014, 02:49:08 AM »
Thanks Nick!

I believe the 7D and 60D have the same amount of moire... 60D is what I've been using so far. But there is a filter available if it causes problems...

According to the current capabilities chart on ML, 7D *does* support exFat, but 5Dmk2 does not. Did you have a different experience?

I'm not willing to risk going into 7k of debt for a couple of 5Dmk3 cameras in the hope I can sell them later :P The film budget is what has been raised from the producers/investors, not what's coming out of my pocket personally. I don't want to cross that line and be left holding the bag if those cams sell at a loss because some new awesome camera comes out in a year. 

dmilligan

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2014, 02:52:57 AM »
Quote
Full frame means replacing all the glass I have already bought for crop factor...
No not necessarily, you can shoot the 5D2 in crop mode, use your current glass, and have no aliasing or moire issues. You need to keep in mind that ML Raw does not necessarily use the full FOV of the sensor. FF isn't necessarily FF.

aace

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2014, 03:00:09 AM »
According to the chart, 5Dmk2 does not support exFat. Which means that lovely full HD raw is going to be limited to clips only a few seconds long unless I'm missing something...

It looks like nick.p beat me to it, but, you shouldn't have to worry about using exfat for the 7D. Once the file size reaches 4GB it creates a new file. I've shot about 4 and a half minutes of raw video without problems. The reason I cut it short is because of my card sizes. I only have (4) 64GB Transcend cards 1000x. I'd be weary of using exfat anyway. I've read in the forums that a guy had a clip that he was unable to open. I'm not sure if it was exfat or standard fat32 but the file, from what I understand was like 100GB. You can check it out here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11815.msg114810;topicseen#msg114810

Also midphase you said:

You'll be dealing with glitchy external monitoring, no playback, and the constant fear of not really knowing if the footage you just captured is corrupted.

I'm not sure if you're talking about playback in camera or on the computer (mac/pc) but it is definitely possible to preview your clips on both the camera and computer. On your camera make sure you enable the mlv_play module and hit the play button to play the files back. It's not real time, it's raw for crying out loud, but at least you can check framing and what not. You can even delete takes you don't like. Quick menu button! As for playback on your computer, you can playback the mlv files just fine with the MLRawViewer. Check that out here. http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9560.0

I have a Marshall monitor I've used twice with out issues shooting and monitoring raw. The "not knowing if the footage is corrupted or not" is somewhat true but it's the risk we're taking using nightly hacks.

ariaelf

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2014, 03:16:11 AM »
Don't know about the crop mode for the 5dmk2 (I believe my lenses also have a 1.6X specific mount to the body), but if there is no exFat on the camera the length of all RAW files would be severely limited :/

The aliasing/moire filter for the 7D is 295. Even with that a used 7D is still cheaper than a used 5dmk2. Any other advantages to having a 5dmk2 that aren't purely a stylistic choice (such as ultra-shallow DOF, full frame sensor, etc?)




ariaelf

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2014, 03:30:28 AM »
It looks like nick.p beat me to it, but, you shouldn't have to worry about using exfat for the 7D. Once the file size reaches 4GB it creates a new file. I've shot about 4 and a half minutes of raw video without problems. The reason I cut it short is because of my card sizes. I only have (4) 64GB Transcend cards 1000x. I'd be weary of using exfat anyway. I've read in the forums that a guy had a clip that he was unable to open. I'm not sure if it was exfat or standard fat32 but the file, from what I understand was like 100GB. You can check it out here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11815.msg114810;topicseen#msg114810

That's good to know! So do you just line up all the 4GB files together in your NLE and they fit together perfectly, or is there a program that stitches them together for one long clip? Since RAW is about 5GB per minute, I imagine we'd have a ton of split-up-clips for a feature's worth of shooting scenes. That might get rather annoying....

Well if we don't know that exFat caused the problem or fat32, and exFat allows unlimited file lengths, I think it's the better option. Thoughts?

Also midphase you said:
I'm not sure if you're talking about playback in camera or on the computer (mac/pc) but it is definitely possible to preview your clips on both the camera and computer. On your camera make sure you enable the mlv_play module and hit the play button to play the files back. It's not real time, it's raw for crying out loud, but at least you can check framing and what not. You can even delete takes you don't like. Quick menu button! As for playback on your computer, you can playback the mlv files just fine with the MLRawViewer. Check that out here. http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9560.0

I have a Marshall monitor I've used twice with out issues shooting and monitoring raw. The "not knowing if the footage is corrupted or not" is somewhat true but it's the risk we're taking using nightly hacks.

You know this whole complaint about playback just makes me laugh because it wasn't long ago at all that NO ONE had playback for anything, because actual film had to be processed first. Which means that Orson Welles didn't have a single moment of using playback when making Citizen Kane. And Godfather was made without playback. And yes, sometimes a mistake was made, something wasn't in focus, the wrong chemicals were used, a scene had to be reshot, etc. So what? It's part of film making. When did we become so spoiled that we absolutely must have real time playback, RAW digital files, sound and picture in the same device, etc? It's ridiculous to complain about this stuff when simple no-budget solutions (like a clapboard) have been around a hundred years for film makers.

I have a feeling Midphase used an older and less stable version of ML on his 7D, went through the ringer trying to shoot with it, and now insists that no one else try raw filming on the 7D with grasping-at-straws arguments. I haven't heard any convincing, insurmountable reason yet why the 7D is not suited for shooting scenes in RAW with ML in it's current state. If you had told me "I tried it and my camera exploded" of course I wouldn't do it. But "oh you can't do playback"... that's just whining.

On another note, great to hear you can still delete clips in RAW if you know the take is bad. With only 30 minutes of recording time on a 128GB card, every deleted take counts! :))

reddeercity

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2014, 03:35:36 AM »
I just came back from a interview a few hours ago and on my 5D Mark2 @1872x936 24p+audio with Lexar 1000x 64GB shot 15,419 frames = 10.71 Minutes
And 7 Minutes (28GB) on the 32GB card . All in with File splitting to a total of 77GB with the 15,419 was 45GB alone.
Crop mode is 3X your focal length  e.g. 30mm=90mm So yes you 1.6 crop lens will work just fine.
And in crop mode you can do 2k (2048x852 continuous @ 24p)
 

Midphase

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Re: "No Budget" feature film looking for best DSLR cam for RAW capture
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2014, 04:15:21 AM »
Aria,

As I said, you already seem to have all the answers so I'm not quite sure why you even posted here. Go back and read your own original post before you get your panties in a bunch and tell me to grow up.

Nowhere in your original post do you mention your camera budget, and just because you're making a no-budget $10k feature, doesn't necessarily imply that you don't have some other money saved up with which to buy your gear (or perhaps know a DP or two with their own set up).

You specifically asked for advice on what to shoot with, and you got it. Once you receive your response, just be thankful and then do what is best for you rather than argue as to why the advice isn't good enough.

Best of luck with your feature, sounds to me like one way or another it's shaping up to be a good learning experience for you.