Author Topic: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches  (Read 77753 times)

chmee

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2014, 01:26:01 PM »
and i hoped to read some revolution :D

(*) 495$ is very expensive, too much.. 99$ would be ok. selling one for 495$ or 10 for 99$ ;) think about it..
(*) but, if it would import accordingly, including audio, with no glitches (and a plugin for keyframe changes of exposure fe) it would be absolutely ok in terms of efficiency.
(*) (by now) it takes me (every recording session) a few hours to get workable media for premiere.
(*) its just a "quid pro quo"-calculation - time- or moneysaver.. i'd decide for timesaving..

regards chmee

duey101

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2014, 02:06:26 PM »
And I thought I had found some revolution!  :'(
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chmee

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2014, 02:11:31 PM »
:) what if.. :D it would be..

duey101

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2014, 02:27:54 PM »
Ha ha ha... I was freaking out going... Oh, this is it!  A miracle!  LOL!!!  ;D  Let there be hope still.
Gear: Canon 5D Mark III, 60D, EF 70-200L, EF 85mm, EF 50mm, EF 10-22mm.  Platform: Dual Boot Win 7 Ultimate x64/Mavericks Hackintosh, PPro CC, LR5.

1%

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2014, 06:08:23 PM »
500 bucks = too pricey.

aace

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2014, 06:26:59 PM »
and i hoped to read some revolution :D

(*) 495$ is very expensive, too much.. 99$ would be ok. selling one for 495$ or 10 for 99$ ;) think about it..
(*) but, if it would import accordingly, including audio, with no glitches (and a plugin for keyframe changes of exposure fe) it would be absolutely ok in terms of efficiency.
(*) (by now) it takes me (every recording session) a few hours to get workable media for premiere.
(*) its just a "quid pro quo"-calculation - time- or moneysaver.. i'd decide for timesaving..

regards chmee

500 bucks = too pricey.

I have to agree. Does this provide Adobe Camera Raw image adjustmesnts. I didn't think so... or does it? Having ACR, to me, justifies the $500 price tag. Not having it makes this plugin worth $10-$100. This program however does provide us with a way to make rough edits then encode to Prores using Baldand's MLRAWVIEWER https://bitbucket.org/baldand/mlrawviewer/downloads

Midphase

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2014, 06:56:09 PM »
Despite the initial excitement that I originally had when I read the first posts, I have to say that a straight .mlv import into PP isn't necessarily a good thing for my workflow. CDNG is where it's at, it's quickly becoming the standard raw format and it's only a matter of time before all major NLE's support it without any need to transcode. PP seems right around the corner from having a good stable (and non pink) support for it, Resolve is already on board (don't forget Resolve is now also an NLE), and FCP X and others are likely to follow as the Blackmagic Cameras become more widely used.

So while editing straight into .mlv might work for some, eventually I would still need to convert to CDNG anyway for finishing and final grade.

chmee

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2014, 08:27:01 PM »
I have to agree. Does this provide Adobe Camera Raw image adjustmesnts. I didn't think so... or does it? Having ACR, to me, justifies the $500 price tag..
If the ACR-adjustments are changeable via keyframes, yes. statically only while import, no. thats not enough imho.

aace

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2014, 12:24:24 AM »
If the ACR-adjustments are adjustable via keyframes, yes. statically only while import, no. thats not enough imho.

I hear you chmee. If this company is going to charge $500 for a plugin it should be just as versatile as the R3D plugin that's native to Premiere. If you check this out (
) you'll see how similar color correcting R3D in Premiere is to color correcting CDNG in Lightroom, Photoshop and After Effects. This feature for MLV is worth $500 in my honest opinion. Keyframing is not worth $500. When MLV can be edited natively like R3D, Adobe Camera Raw, or something similar,  I'll be the next customer in line to purchase such a plugin for Premiere.

infinitebuzz

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2014, 04:12:19 PM »
I hear you chmee. If this company is going to charge $500 for a plugin it should be just as versatile as the R3D plugin that's native to Premiere. If you check this out (
) you'll see how similar color correcting R3D in Premiere is to color correcting CDNG in Lightroom, Photoshop and After Effects. This feature for MLV is worth $500 in my honest opinion. Keyframing is not worth $500. When MLV can be edited natively like R3D, Adobe Camera Raw, or something similar,  I'll be the next customer in line to purchase such a plugin for Premiere.
Hi All

  I'm one of the programmers on the plug ins.  I think there is some confusion re: the pricing.  The MediaReactor plug in was developed to allow access to real time play while recording, read access to file formats like GEN, HDR, Omneon, Lietch, Grass Valley, Pinnacle, HDCam, RMF, etc and export of broadcast and post formats.  The 500 was for all that, and we had a request from and OEM to add MLV and RAW which we did.  We then thought we would announce here in case anyone was interested.
  I completely agree that 500$ is too much if you are only doing MLV and/or RAW.  We have talked about a MLV/RAW only plug in at around 99$, but we were not sure it would be popular enough to be worth doing.  We are not looking at adding key frames or ACR at this point, so it would be as it is currently, without all the other formats.  Any and all comments would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers, James

aace

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2014, 04:46:06 PM »
Hi All

  I'm one of the programmers on the plug ins.  I think there is some confusion re: the pricing.  The MediaReactor plug in was developed to allow access to real time play while recording, read access to file formats like GEN, HDR, Omneon, Lietch, Grass Valley, Pinnacle, HDCam, RMF, etc and export of broadcast and post formats.  The 500 was for all that, and we had a request from and OEM to add MLV and RAW which we did.  We then thought we would announce here in case anyone was interested.
  I completely agree that 500$ is too much if you are only doing MLV and/or RAW.  We have talked about a MLV/RAW only plug in at around 99$, but we were not sure it would be popular enough to be worth doing.  We are not looking at adding key frames or ACR at this point, so it would be as it is currently, without all the other formats.  Any and all comments would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers, James

@infinitebuzz I understand your hesitation in developing a specific, Magic Lantern, plugin for Premiere. The most important aspect to remember with this community is that everything is free (open source). To market such a plugin to a community accustomed to free firmware will be a marketing nightmare. Although there are many professionals here, I truly believe that the mass majority of this community consists of enthusiasts and programmers that simply enjoy unlocking the Canon camera's full potential, not making profit from production. In addition, the raw capabilities of these cameras are still being developed to this day. To make matters worse a huge number of Canon users STILL aren't aware of Magic Lantern to begin with. Mind blowing if you ask me!

Now, I don't want to discourage the creation of a Magic Lantern plugin because the potential for profit is still there. If you do pursue such a program know that there are many avenues to advertising for free to get the masses informed and on board. Hell, every new breakthrough alex, g3gg0, and 1% discovers is re-Tweeted all over the place, proof: https://twitter.com/autoexec_bin. Just so it is clear, I'm willing to buy a $99 native Magic Lantern raw plugin for Premiere Pro. I would like it to be a little more robust, like R3D features, but I understand it takes time to develop something that complicated, that works real time, with no bugs over night.

Thanks for caring!
aace

g3gg0

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2014, 05:27:55 PM »
one simple way to know if it is reasonable:

open a poll and ask who would buy this MLV/RAW-only plugin version, either here on the forum or as a register-form on your product page. (apply for MLV-release)
you have a rough estimation of how many people might buy it if you look at your demo licenses given out for your MLV/RAW experiments.

the less people interested, the less effort i would put into that.
least effort: make custom builds that embed the ugly watermark in all footages except MLV/RAW.

i think $99 is a good pricing and that should be worth every cent.
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duey101

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2014, 06:40:44 PM »
@James...  Thanks for coming in here and explaining.

Drastic was kind enough to send me a license code to work with this plugin and I have been doing so all day and as is... it doesn't really do what we really need it to do, work with ACR.  Being able to work direct in PPro with native MLV/RAW is absolutely great though.  I have been testing this out all day and it definitely works very well, smooth import/editing function but with RAW you need to be able to adjust the dynamic range and you can't do that. 

Without the ability to use ACR to adjust dynamic range on import it makes the plugin much less desirable than the freely available and really awesome raw2cdng converter we already have here on this forum.  Although I love the fact I can open MLV/RAW files directly into PPro CC, without the ACR function it is not really that useful in a RAW/MLV workflow. 

Right now, I can use chmee's really GREAT (and also free) raw2cdng converter which gives me CDNG files I can open/adjust/save (batch) in Photoshop CC and then open direct in PPro CC.  That is a pretty good option for me and doesn't cost me anything, and probably the rest of us here would agree.  I also agree the plugin would have to be as versatile as the R3D plugin that's native to Premiere. 

As g3gg0 said, in a free open source environment like this it would be a tough sell unless it had all the bells and whistles.  All that being said, if the plugin worked native in Premiere with ACR functionality and as versatile as the R3D plugin is I'd buy it now.

I will say that it is very nice to be able to go straight into PPro with MLV/RAW straight off the Card/HD though.



Gear: Canon 5D Mark III, 60D, EF 70-200L, EF 85mm, EF 50mm, EF 10-22mm.  Platform: Dual Boot Win 7 Ultimate x64/Mavericks Hackintosh, PPro CC, LR5.

chmee

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2014, 06:57:31 PM »
but ;) using the importer-plugin for mlv is one step less than with my converter. one step faster to workflow. as i remember, there was a guy in the adobe-forums, complaining about missing acr-slider inside photoshop and premiere - he wasnt that clever to understand a linear versus a "photographic-like" logarithmic  approach. its not that easy, coding a whole "photographic", acr-kind module. BUT if it would exist, it would be worth its money.

@infinitebuzz thanks for coming and taking dialog with the community. i wished, adobe had these balls :)

regards chmee

Midphase

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2014, 07:14:41 PM »
Yeah, I think .mlv without ACR is a bit moot since at some point one would have to convert to a format where they could have full access to the raw data. At the very least, it would be mostly interested in those users who are typically doing all of their color grade from within PP and aren't overly fussy about getting the most out of their video quality.

Of course if ML was able to encode CDNG directly to the CF card, that's be a huge time saver, but unfortunately it's not possible.

chmee

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2014, 08:55:45 PM »
my demands are less - as we are with 10 or 12bit linear clearly in better position for postpro, and nonetheless the sharpness-increase.. so, highlight-recovery (as in lichtroom or acr) are high hopes.. not impossible means not, its easy. who will pay for this?

infinitebuzz

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2014, 10:39:44 PM »
With the ACR, I had a look and the ACR path is custom in Adobe.  It is not available to plug in developers.  There is the ability to add a dialog which we could put our debayer parameters in:

red gain, blue gain, exposure, white point, black point, gamma and debayer method

We already convert from the bayer to 16 bit per component RGB, so there is lots of room for high lights and low light post processing.  I like the idea of a poll on the site, but it sounds like there is no point until there are more conversion controls.  I would like to know if ACR is a show stopper.  If it is, then only Adobe can implement it.

Cheers, James

aace

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2014, 01:16:37 AM »
It's not a deal breaker not having ACR features however it does devalue the plugin in my opinion.  Now I don't know your end of the business and I wont pretend to know but is it at all possible to emulate the same or similar features from ACR? It's built into Lightroom, right? I use Cineform to re-encode standard H.264 video out of the camera and use the dynamic color adjustments within the Cineform metadata, which is non destructive and is rendered in real time. I know it's not easy to implement this ACR-ish functionality into your plugin but I don't want to give up on the possibility. I'm honestly drooling over the possibilities of your Magic Lantern plugin. Again you've got one buyer here. I just really, really want that additional function!

I'm not a fan of this workflow:
@ about 4:25 you see what I mean. Your plugin could be the answer everyone is looking for. ;)

duey101

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2014, 08:03:57 AM »
Not having ACR wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker, but there has to be something that allows for DR adjustment.  Whenever I shoot raw (90% of the time) I always open the files in ACR first to adjust exp/whites/blacks/ISO/ and so on but it is an extra time consuming step in the work flow.  If your plugin gives me a way to do it native in Premiere, done.  I'm buying.  For me, it needs to work much the same way the R3D pugin works which aace mentioned and can be seen here... 

I too am drooling over a possible plugin that allows direct import of RAW/MLV with these kind of functions.  You make it, I'm in.  There you go, you have at least a few already.  Why not start a poll or thread asking what users want.  Here, I'll start...

A plugin that allows RAW/MLV to work native in PPro with the ability to adjust RAW/MLV dynamic range etc., just like the R3D plugin does.

I am already testing in PPro with the current plugin which works fantastic, but has a few pixel issues.  If it had the DR adjustment functions, WOW!

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Midphase

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2014, 06:59:09 PM »
A plugin that allows RAW/MLV to work native in PPro with the ability to adjust RAW/MLV dynamic range etc., just like the R3D plugin does.

I'm pretty sure that what you're seeing in that RED video was hardcoded by Adobe engineers into PP6 due to probably more than a little greasing from the billion dollar company that is Oakley. A pull, that I should say, Blackmagic hasn't been able to exert on Adobe quite yet since their BMCC files don't have that type of functionality at all.

I might be wrong, but I doubt that a small 3rd party coder can give you that type of functionality. As it was already mentioned, 3rd party plugins and extensions apparently can't even access ACR.

duey101

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2014, 07:22:46 PM »
Yes, that good old grease, gotta love it.  Makes things move really well.  Well, everything is advancing so fast in the modern world I know a great solution is on its way right now.  The best thing of course is Adobe adds native MLV/RAW support, could happen.  I wonder why they never drop in here, you know they are all looking!
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chmee

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2014, 08:11:22 PM »
its, as infinitebuzz stated.. HOW MANY are we really? worth the work? Simple Calculations, if 200 are willing to buy this plugin, and every is paying 100 bucks, its 20.000$/€. thats even for a small company nearly just two months of paying costs, but coding/drilling hard a hell of a gem..

(i did a look into the sdk, for c++ i'm too clueless. BUT the big amount of already coded modules in ml could help)
 
mfg chmee

infinitebuzz

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2014, 03:06:59 AM »
its, as infinitebuzz stated.. HOW MANY are we really? worth the work? Simple Calculations, if 200 are willing to buy this plugin, and every is paying 100 bucks, its 20.000$/€. thats even for a small company nearly just two months of paying costs, but coding/drilling hard a hell of a gem..

(i did a look into the sdk, for c++ i'm too clueless. BUT the big amount of already coded modules in ml could help)
 
mfg chmee
Certainly 200 would do it, if they are out there.  We need to look at the dialog stuff to see what we can add first.

Cheers, James

Midphase

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2014, 03:07:48 AM »
Someone set up a poll already and let's find out.

I just hope that people answer honestly based on the what the plugin actually does and not what they wish it would do.

infinitebuzz

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Re: MLV raw files native support in Premiere Pro CC!!! (99%) minor glitches
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2014, 03:42:47 AM »
Someone set up a poll already and let's find out.

I just hope that people answer honestly based on the what the plugin actually does and not what they wish it would do.
Where is the poll?  I can't see it in the raw forum
J