Could use some help ! [Post Processing related]

[redaber]

Hello everyone,

I am fairly new to the scene of Magic Lantern and i have just installed Magic Lantern on my 5D Mark III and recorded some beautifull 14 bit RAW footage and it looks absolutely amazing. Coming from 8 bit H264 the workflow was easy as stealing candy from a little kid....

And i have came across one big problem which is the next.

1. Turn Camera ON = Check
2. Record RAW 14 bit footage = Check
3. Import = Check
4. Convert to DNG = Check
5. Import to Davinci Resolve and grade = Check
6. Export to Proress 4444 = ERROR.

After i did my research i found out Windows doesnt allow Prores4444 to to exported natively. Which came as a big shock to me because there is a reason the footage looks amazing ( 14 bit, and raw quality ) My question to you smarties is please save me and tell me its possible to export them in Prores4444 because if i cant i feel like i wasted alot of time and stress for nothing haha but im sure there is a way to do it.

Anyway thanks alot!


PC Specs :
- CPU : i7 2600K (Overclocked stable to 4,8ghz)
- GPU : AMD Radeon HD 6950
- RAM : 32 GB Corsair Ram

[reddeercity]

Is there some reason it has to be Pro Res 4444 ?
There is a lot of different Codec to chose from.
Try the Blackmagic RGB 10bit , Avid DNxHD 444 of even export to tiff image sequence and use
FFmpeg to convert to Pro Res 4444 if its a must . 

[jimmyD30]

Check out this YouTube video

[redaber]

Thanks alot!

i presume i can do the same with davinci resolve?

[redaber]

Is there some reason it has to be Pro Res 4444 ?
There is a lot of different Codec to chose from.
Try the Blackmagic RGB 10bit , Avid DNxHD 444 of even export to tiff image sequence and use
FFmpeg to convert to Pro Res 4444 if its a must .

well the reaon is, correct me if i am wrong but....

10 bit is lower than the 14bit footage, i mean we shoot magic lantern partly because of the 14 bit, and 10 bit degrades the colors right?

[jimmyD30]

Yes, 10-bit has reduced image quality compared to 14-bit of course, but a big factor to consider is... What will be your final render(s) for actual viewing or distribution?

My first steps for clips and shorts is to render (C)DNGs to a lossless format with color and lens correction (not color grading and without audio usually), then render as needed to whichever format.

I think what @reddeercity is suggesting is if you're simply going to upload to youtube or vimeo or any highly compressed output, then the final viewing format will be variable bitrate H264 or the like anyway, so it really depends upon what you're planning to do with your footage as a final result.

[jimmyD30]

Thanks alot!

i presume i can do the same with davinci resolve?

As 'same' meaning output ProRes 4444 (or any ProRes) with DaVinci Resolve on Windows?

Not sure, get the free DR version and check it out, but usually Windows can read/input ProRes if QuickTime is installed, but Windows apps usually don't output ProRes (it's Apple proprietary codec), usually AVI or some Avid codec format.

EDIT: I believe ProRes 4444 is 12-bit anyhow... For TOTALYY BEST QUALITY save uncompressed as Animation or AVI (large files).

[redaber]

As 'same' meaning output ProRes 4444 (or any ProRes) with DaVinci Resolve on Windows?

Not sure, get the free DR version and check it out, but usually Windows can read/input ProRes if QuickTime is installed, but Windows apps usually don't output ProRes (it's Apple proprietary codec), usually AVI or some Avid codec format.

EDIT: I believe ProRes 4444 is 12-bit anyhow... For TOTALYY BEST QUALITY save uncompressed as Animation or AVI (large files).

Well its going to run on vimeo, and on a cinema screen ( not kidding ) thats why i am so hectic about the 14bit

[jimmyD30]

Well its going to run on vimeo, and on a cinema screen ( not kidding ) thats why i am so hectic about the 14bit

Ok, Vimeo will be highly compressed H264, max bitrate depends upon video resolution, but it will be low. As far as cinema screen goes, I'm no expert in this area, but I'd check with the theater/place you're screening your flick and see which format they need you to deliver the media in, they're gonna tell you what their equipment can handle, not the other way around.

[redaber]

Alright Alright, we are getting somewhere.

You say highly compressed h264 on vimeo right ? so it is going to be compressed to 8 bit anyway? and also, if i grade my 14 bit footage in davinci resolve and export it to 10 bit lets say how bad will be quality of my image be degraded?

Thanks for the time btw

[jimmyD30]

To give you some reference points....

Animation/AVI = Lossless 14-Bit (for ML RAW), up to 300 Mbps bitrate (no loss, best quality)
ProRes 4444 = Lossy 12-Bit, ~ 200-250 Mbps bitrate (one of the best lossy formats out there, if not the best)
ProRes 422 HQ = Lossy 10-Bit, ~ 150-200 Mbps bitrate (next best lossy format for ProRes, if not altogether)

So, all pretty good stuff to be working with.

ProRes goes down to ProRes Proxy at about 40 Mbps bitrate, but still 10-Bit I believe, which really isn't big screen worthy, just used for offline editing mostly.

[reddeercity]

Don't forget about Blackmagic RGB 10bit for PC (uncompressed) it about the very best hands down @ 1.5Gb/s(1500Mb/s) with 32 bit/pixel with trillions of color =16bit (only if  project set to 32bit in A.E.) where as ProRes 4444 is only 5 bit/pixel but the prores has less bandwith and easy to edit .

[redaber]

To give you some reference points....

Animation/AVI = Lossless 14-Bit (for ML RAW), up to 300 Mbps bitrate (no loss, best quality)
ProRes 4444 = Lossy 12-Bit, ~ 200-250 Mbps bitrate (one of the best lossy formats out there, if not the best)
ProRes 422 HQ = Lossy 10-Bit, ~ 150-200 Mbps bitrate (next best lossy format for ProRes, if not altogether)

So, all pretty good stuff to be working with.

ProRes goes down to ProRes Proxy at about 40 Mbps bitrate, but still 10-Bit I believe, which really isn't big screen worthy, just used for offline editing mostly.

Thanks alot for your help man,

so to sums things up :
- Proress 4444 is 12 bit and also very good right?
- Animation/AVI is the best when it comes to holding my 14 bit footage/quality , (how easy does this edit in premiere btw ?)

what do you think suits me the best for as far as holding the quality goes

( dont worry about hard drive space, i got 30TB data centre )

[jimmyD30]

Yes, ProRes 4444 is VERY good! But still is a lossy type format.

So, uncompressed lossless is the best format to retain all original detail of the DNGs. From my experience, with a decent computer you can edit lossless formats no problem in Premiere.

Best for holding quality is original DNGs or Lossless (Animation/AVI) and they're basically the same file sizes (DNG and Lossless).

[redaber]

Yes, ProRes 4444 is VERY good! But still is a lossy type format.

So, uncompressed lossless is the best format to retain all original detail of the DNGs. From my experience, with a decent computer you can edit lossless formats no problem in Premiere.

Best for holding quality is original DNGs or Lossless (Animation/AVI) and they're basically the same file sizes (DNG and Lossless).

So is there any way to export it from davinci resolove to Prores4444 on windows ?

[jimmyD30]

I'm not using a windows machine, but I don't think you can.

[redaber]

I'm not using a windows machine, but I don't think you can.

So avi (losless) is my way to go ? or is there a windows based codec that is just as good as prores444?

thanks alot

[jimmyD30]

I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure the Avid format is similar to ProRes.

[dfort]

 Try Avid DNxHD175x that's a 10-bit slightly compressed format that works fine on Windows systems. I compared 10-bit uncompressed DNX frames, DNxHD175x and ProRes4444 QuickTime files on a scope and the differences were insignificant. By eye they all looked the same.