Auto-Beroflex vs Yashica ML @2.8 28mm - Canon EOS-M

Started by tytygelu, February 01, 2014, 05:47:59 PM

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tytygelu

Auto-Beroflex vs Yashica ML @2.8 28mm - Canon EOS-M (MagicLantern)

Shutter speed 1/50 - ISO160 - 25fps - ND filters


tupp

Very interesting!

What were your ML settings?

Can you post pictures of how you mounted the lenses?

Thanks!


tupp

Thank you for the helpful links.  The EOS-M is highly versatile in regards to attachable lenses/adapters.

Can you be a little more specific about your ML settings -- which build, shooting raw, MLV  or h264, resolution, crop mode, GOP setting, etc.

Thanks!

tytygelu

ML build - tragiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2014Jan20.EOSM202 - http://tl.bot-fly.com/

BitRate (CBR) - up to 2.0X
Video - h.264
Picture Style - UserDef1 -    0,-2,-2,0
Zebras , FocusPeak ,  MagicZoom - ON
LV DIGIC peacking
Shoot in M mode

That s all .... i think :D

tupp

I appreciate the great info!

I am considering getting an EOS-M, but here is the important question:  In that Tragic Lantern build for the EOS-M, can one set the GOP to "1" or is there no GOP control?

Thanks!

tytygelu

If i enable Video Hacks i got :
                                         -Flush rate 4 frames
                                         - GOP size 12 frames

tupp

Very helpful info.

Interframe h264 compression is the killer.  When every frame is its own image (GOP 1) the video looks cleaner.  Also, it helps to minimize the the h264 intraframe  artifacts by boosting the bit rate (and tweaking d-block settings).

When you get a chance, could you try setting the GOP to "1"  with the bitrate set to "2" or "2.5?"  Such settings probably require a fast SD card to work for any decent length of time.

If the EOS-M works continuously with such boosted bit rate and with the GOP set to "1" then I am buying one!

Thank you!

tytygelu

It works at GOP 1 and CBR up to 2.0x but the sound is disabled .

I`ll do a longer test outside ...

My card is a Samsung 32GB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA12K0PT8070

tupp

Great!

If you were able to shoot for more than 5 minutes at those settings, I'm sold.  Sound is not necessary for my purposes (I have a separate system for that).

Thanks!

tytygelu

Here is a shot of 7:41 min and i could record for 30min for sure - https://mega.co.nz/#!PBAGSADA!0qpCriyL-xSS8z91d-FifpMPbqjvQo3zlmBpotTBeMk (i think my AWB is offfff)

EOS-M settings:

shutter 1/50 - ISO160 - 25p - CZJ Biometar 80mm @2.8
bit rate (CBR) - up to 2.5x


Here is the Media Info from MPC :

Format                         : MPEG-4
Format profile                 : QuickTime
Codec ID                       : qt 
File size                      : 1.50 GiB
Duration                       : 7mn 41s
Overall bit rate mode          : Variable
Overall bit rate               : 27.9 Mbps
Encoded date                   : UTC 2014-02-02 13:24:42
Tagged date                    : UTC 2014-02-02 13:24:42
com.apple.quicktime.make       : Canon
com.apple.quicktime.model      : Canon EOS M

Video
ID                             : 1
Format                         : AVC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                 : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC         : No
Format settings, ReFrames      : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP           : N=1
Codec ID                       : avc1
Codec ID/Info                  : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                       : 7mn 41s
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Bit rate                       : 27.9 Mbps
Width                          : 1 920 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Original height                : 1 088 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 16:9
Frame rate mode                : Constant
Frame rate                     : 25.000 fps
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.537
Stream size                    : 1.50 GiB (100%)
Language                       : English
Encoded date                   : UTC 2014-02-02 13:24:42
Tagged date                    : UTC 2014-02-02 13:24:42
Color primaries                : BT.709
Transfer characteristics       : BT.709
Matrix coefficients            : BT.709




Here is the Media Info from a normal video without Video hacks enabled :

Format                         : MPEG-4
Format profile                 : QuickTime
Codec ID                       : qt 
File size                      : 159 MiB
Duration                       : 23s 440ms
Overall bit rate               : 56.8 Mbps
Encoded date                   : UTC 2014-01-30 15:00:20
Tagged date                    : UTC 2014-01-30 15:00:20
com.apple.quicktime.make       : Canon
com.apple.quicktime.model      : Canon EOS M

Video
ID                             : 1
Format                         : AVC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                 : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC         : No
Format settings, ReFrames      : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP           : M=1, N=12
Codec ID                       : avc1
Codec ID/Info                  : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                       : 23s 440ms
Bit rate                       : 56.1 Mbps
Width                          : 1 920 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Original height                : 1 088 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 16:9
Frame rate mode                : Constant
Frame rate                     : 25.000 fps
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 1.081
Stream size                    : 154 MiB (97%)
Language                       : English
Encoded date                   : UTC 2014-01-30 15:00:20
Tagged date                    : UTC 2014-01-30 15:00:20
Color primaries                : BT.709
Transfer characteristics       : BT.709
Matrix coefficients            : BT.709

Audio
ID                             : 2
Format                         : PCM
Format settings, Endianness    : Little
Format settings, Sign          : Signed
Codec ID                       : sowt
Duration                       : 23s 440ms
Bit rate mode                  : Constant
Bit rate                       : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s)                     : 2 channels
Channel positions              : Front: L R
Sampling rate                  : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                      : 16 bits
Stream size                    : 4.29 MiB (3%)
Language                       : English
Encoded date                   : UTC 2014-01-30 15:00:20
Tagged date                    : UTC 2014-01-30 15:00:20


the GOP is 12 and there is sound !!!!

hope these helps ....

tupp

Thank you trying these settings and for posting all of this information!  It is very helpful.

It is interesting that the video with the enabled hacks has a bit rate that is 1/2 that of the video with the hacks disabled.  Perhaps the short duration of the disabled hack video is responsible for this apparent discrepancy.

Also interesting is that the video with the enabled hacks shows a variable bit rate, while the disabled hacks video shows a constant bit rate.

Was the CBR set to 2.5x in both videos?

I'll try to download the linked file.

Thanks!

tytygelu

the CBR was 2.5x in both

Quote from: tupp on February 02, 2014, 09:18:15 PM

It is interesting that the video with the enabled hacks has a bit rate that is 1/2 that of the video with the hacks disabled.  Perhaps the short duration of the disabled hack video is responsible for this apparent discrepancy.

Also interesting is that the video with the enabled hacks shows a variable bit rate, while the disabled hacks video shows a constant bit rate.

yes ... i saw that too after inspecting the info from MPC ... i don t think the short duration is responsible for the bitrate ... mby my slow card ? ...


1%

Look at QP per frame and what kinds of frames they are.


tytygelu

i did 2 test with Video hacks enable and 2.5x CBR

the longer video https://mega.co.nz/#!PBAGSADA!0qpCriyL-xSS8z91d-FifpMPbqjvQo3zlmBpotTBeMk

Format                         : MPEG-4
Format profile                 : QuickTime
Codec ID                       : qt 
File size                      : 1.50 GiB
Duration                       : 7mn 41s
Overall bit rate mode          : Variable
Overall bit rate               : 27.9 Mbps
Encoded date                   : UTC 2014-02-02 13:24:42
Tagged date                    : UTC 2014-02-02 13:24:42
com.apple.quicktime.make       : Canon
com.apple.quicktime.model      : Canon EOS M

Video
ID                             : 1
Format                         : AVC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                 : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC         : No
Format settings, ReFrames      : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP           : N=1
Codec ID                       : avc1
Codec ID/Info                  : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                       : 7mn 41s
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Bit rate                       : 27.9 Mbps
Width                          : 1 920 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Original height                : 1 088 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 16:9
Frame rate mode                : Constant
Frame rate                     : 25.000 fps
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.537
Stream size                    : 1.50 GiB (100%)
Language                       : English
Encoded date                   : UTC 2014-02-02 13:24:42
Tagged date                    : UTC 2014-02-02 13:24:42
Color primaries                : BT.709
Transfer characteristics       : BT.709
Matrix coefficients            : BT.709



shorter video https://mega.co.nz/#!rFZU3CiR!qHzz4O-3jYbVil6pRoT8D7z17Lhlskd7jlRTUebA-ic

Format                         : MPEG-4
Format profile                 : QuickTime
Codec ID                       : qt 
File size                      : 356 MiB
Duration                       : 44s 480ms
Overall bit rate               : 67.1 Mbps
Encoded date                   : UTC 2014-02-02 13:34:02
Tagged date                    : UTC 2014-02-02 13:34:02
com.apple.quicktime.make       : Canon
com.apple.quicktime.model      : Canon EOS M

Video
ID                             : 1
Format                         : AVC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                 : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC         : No
Format settings, ReFrames      : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP           : M=1, N=12
Codec ID                       : avc1
Codec ID/Info                  : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                       : 44s 480ms
Bit rate                       : 67.1 Mbps
Width                          : 1 920 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Original height                : 1 088 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 16:9
Frame rate mode                : Constant
Frame rate                     : 25.000 fps
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 1.294
Stream size                    : 356 MiB (100%)
Language                       : English
Encoded date                   : UTC 2014-02-02 13:34:02
Tagged date                    : UTC 2014-02-02 13:34:02
Color primaries                : BT.709
Transfer characteristics       : BT.709
Matrix coefficients            : BT.709



in the first video the GOP was set to 1 and in the second the GOP was 12 (default)

the diferences in the bitrate are big .... i ll do more tests :D

tytygelu

Quote from: 1% on February 02, 2014, 10:11:28 PM
Look at QP per frame and what kinds of frames they are.

where is these setting ? in video hacks i only have flush rate and GOP ...

tupp

Quote from: tytygelu on February 02, 2014, 10:13:13 PM
i did 2 test with Video hacks enable and 2.5x CBR

the longer video https://mega.co.nz/#!PBAGSADA!0qpCriyL-xSS8z91d-FifpMPbqjvQo3zlmBpotTBeMk

shorter video https://mega.co.nz/#!rFZU3CiR!qHzz4O-3jYbVil6pRoT8D7z17Lhlskd7jlRTUebA-ic

Thank you for posting these videos.  I would love to see them, but, unfortunately, I am unable to get anything off of that www.mega.co.nz site.  YouTube or Vimeo always works (I can deal with the site compression).


Quote from: tytygelu
the diferences in the bitrate are big .... i ll do more tests :D

Thanks!

tupp

Quote from: 1% on February 02, 2014, 10:11:28 PM
Look at QP per frame and what kinds of frames they are.
What's QP?

In regards to the kinds of frames, the video with GOP 1 should be all "I-frames," correct?  The GOP 12 video should contain one "I-frame"  for every combination of eleven "P-frames" and "B-frames," right?

Isn't compressing a video into  combination of  "I,"P" and "B" frames supposed to use fewer bits than all "I" frames?

tytygelu

Video hacks enabled - GOP 1
(cut from the 7 min clip)



Video hacks enabled - GOP 12



color corrected ....

tytygelu

can u download from here ?


GOP 1 - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7AZlxgW5DjtSTZJVDl3QWhNZUU/edit?usp=sharing

GOP 12 - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7AZlxgW5DjtQ0ctcGNHNzJmNDQ/edit?usp=sharing


tupp

I can download the drive.google.com links.  Thanks!

Both videos look pretty good.  Still wondering why the bitrate seems peculiarly higher on the GOP 12 shot.

Appreciate all your efforts!  Because of these videos, I'll probably get an EOS-M along with several cheap Ebay lenses/adapters (maybe even the Yashica -- it seems fairly sharp and snappy).

Thanks!

tytygelu


tupp

Bought an EOS-M from Amazon today.  The Amazon page said only one remained in stock.  Of course, immediately after I ordered it, the page said more were available.

At any rate, I am looking forward to using it with the settings discussed and with some interesting lenses.

Thanks!