Author Topic: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage  (Read 477326 times)

dfort

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #750 on: July 11, 2016, 09:55:19 PM »
...you can easily load luts (several formats) by clicking the Configuration dropdown in the OCIO plugin and select 'custom'. This will open a browser window. Find a lut, set interpolation to tetrahedral for 3D luts, Linear for 1D luts (Cinelog looks are 3D) and you're good to go...

Well that's a whole lot easier than trying to work with the config.ocio file but I'm seeing the same issue as when using the lut in Lumetri and the "Apply Color LUT" plugins. I'm starting with a Cinelog-C file and this is what the Cinelog-C_to_Eastman_100T_5247_Teal.cube lut looks like in my After Effects project:


As you can see from my previous post the luts in the Cinelog DCP 2016 package seem to be working fine. It is just the ones from the lut library that I'm having problems with.
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Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #751 on: July 11, 2016, 10:23:25 PM »
Print luts and our film Looks do appear darker because they are not compensating for display gamma. If you add exposure compensation (gain) before the lut (as in the exposure guide) you will increase the signal being fed into the lut. The lut will behave quite differently the more you push into it. At the moment it looks underexposed so you will need to correct it. I would hazard a guess at around +1 stop of exposure gain before the lut. White balancing in ACR will also help the look. Try auto WB if you don't have a true white reference in the scene.

The older Cinelog V3.0 profile has around +1 stop of exposure compensation built-in (it's basically Cineon +1 stop) but the new Cinelog-C profiles use Cineon default levels.

The exposure method in the guide is the best way to prep the signal because you can control the amount of gain or offset exactly but you could also try running through the V3.0 profile to adjust the gamma/exposure up a stop (although the look luts themselves were developed for Cineon default levels):

Plugin 1: this does not alter the gamut so the signal will still have Cinelog-C (Alexa Wide Gamut) primaries
Input space: Cineon Rec709 RGB
Output space: Cinelog V3.0 (legacy)


Plugin 2: Loaded Look lut

This is not recommended but could work. It all depends on your 'as shot' exposure. ETTR will always need compensating. Cinelog profiles assume normally exposed images.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

dfort

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #752 on: July 12, 2016, 01:17:35 AM »
I thought my exposure was right but a little exposure adjustment goes a long way!

This is what I've been looking at while I was editing--just a quick ProRes file from MLP without much color correcting:


And here it is with the Cinelog-C_to_Eastman_100T_5247_Cross_Processed.cube and some exposure adjustment.


This is much closer to what I imagined when shooting the scene. Of course it could use a lot more tweaking but I'm off and running. Thanks again Andy600!
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djkraq

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #753 on: July 13, 2016, 04:56:56 AM »
I don't know why I keep getting these huge artifacts of green blocks in my video.  The recording is of a party and the DJ was using a strobe light with red, green and blue.  If I convert the footage to H.264, there are no random green block artifacts, but if I convert to DNxHD 444 10-bit, there they are with arti..............................nope.  Never mind :(  So for my testing of the footage, I was using VLC.  I just popped the footage into Premiere Pro and the footage was fine.  I guess VLC doesn't like 32-bit video files. 

_OLLE_

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #754 on: July 14, 2016, 12:04:45 AM »
Hi, First I would like to thank Andy for updateing Cinelog! I have had some problems to install it propper, both the old and the new vesion.

I have I have placed the OpenColorIO plugin in the AE plugins folder and I can se it in AE. Then I have creted the created the OpenColorIO folder in Application Support and placed the Cinelog configuration there as you can see on the image bellow!



But I canĀ“t find the config in the drop down menu! What's wrong?



best regards Olle


Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #755 on: July 14, 2016, 01:47:31 AM »
@_OLLE_

Copy the folder named 'Cinelog DCP 2016' to /Library/Application Support/OpenColorIO/
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

_OLLE_

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #756 on: July 17, 2016, 04:38:12 PM »
hi andy thanks for reply! It still remains the same "No config in /Library/Application Support/OpenColorIO"
Could it be something wrong with my computer?

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #757 on: July 17, 2016, 05:32:38 PM »
@_OLLE_ I doubt it's a problem with your computer.

Not sure which Application Support directory you installed to but there are Application Support directories under 'Users' so try also copying the folder there and relaunch AE - You may need to show hidden files first to reveal the user accounts. See: http://ianlunn.co.uk/articles/quickly-showhide-hidden-files-mac-os-x-mavericks/

Failing that click on the Custom button. You can load the config this way but I'm interested to see what directory opens by default.

Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

_OLLE_

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #758 on: July 18, 2016, 09:17:14 AM »




It still not work but a found a new file in OpenColorIO folder as you can see.

I also load the config maually!

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #759 on: July 18, 2016, 01:40:14 PM »
@_OLLE_ OK, that's good. Just move the contents of the Cinelog DCP 2016 folder (the 4 folders and the config file) to the OpenColorIO directory shown in your image then delete the Cinelog DCP 2016 folder - it should fix the problem.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

_OLLE_

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #760 on: July 19, 2016, 12:16:10 AM »
sadly not! it still remains the same "No config in /Library/Application Support/OpenColorIO"


ibrahim

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #761 on: July 19, 2016, 09:18:15 AM »
Hi,

I have checked the three different options available on the cinelog website (http://www.cinelogdcp.com/product-compare/)  and wonder which of these I should purchase if I use the workflow that involves mlrawviewer, lightroom and AE/Pr, not davinci.

I've come acros the following post (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=15607.msg151956#msg151956) and wonder in which of the package purchases the LUTs ARRI universal film and rec709 fullrange are available.

I intend to use cinelog-C on 5d3 and even 600d.
Canon 5D Mark IIIs & Canon 600d | Ronin-M | Rokinon 35mm T1.5 Cine AS UMC | Samyang 85mm T1.5 UMC AS Cine VDSLR II   | Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM | Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II | etc
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Kharak

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #762 on: July 19, 2016, 06:02:53 PM »
You should get the ACR version if you are on adobe workflow.
once you go raw you never go back

ibrahim

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #763 on: July 20, 2016, 05:50:18 AM »
Thanks Kharak, it has been purchased now, can't wait to test it.  :)
Canon 5D Mark IIIs & Canon 600d | Ronin-M | Rokinon 35mm T1.5 Cine AS UMC | Samyang 85mm T1.5 UMC AS Cine VDSLR II   | Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM | Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II | etc
Dual sound system: Tascam DR-60d MKII | Audio Technica AT899 | Sennheiser MKE 600

_OLLE_

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #764 on: July 25, 2016, 11:18:45 AM »
What input space is recomend for transforming from ACR profile to Cinelog-C? Is it Cinelog V3.0 (Legacy)?

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #765 on: July 25, 2016, 01:07:12 PM »
@_OLLE_ No, the latest camera profiles are all Cinelog-C so choose that as the Input Space. Cinelog V3.0 (legacy) is for use with the previous v3.0 profile versions.

If you are rendering log masters you don't even need to use OCIO now.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

jmanord

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #766 on: July 25, 2016, 04:16:28 PM »
Is there a definitive list of controls in Lightroom that are usable or not usable when using the Cinelog DCP? I am hoping to grade my dng sequences in Lightroom and export them as tiffs for timeline editing in Resolve. Although it is a MUCH simpler workflow to grade/edit the dng sequence in Resolve, there seems to be too many artifacts introduced to the image when using the highlight recovery feature. The flickering issue when using Lightroom doesn't always show up, but I would much prefer a workflow that removed it as a concern, which is why I am hoping the Cinelog DCP will solve that problem.

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #767 on: July 25, 2016, 08:24:13 PM »
@jmanord - The profile math is precise so anything you do that changes the tonality (i.e. shadows, highlights, blacks, whites, contrast, saturation, clarity, point curve, tone curve etc) should not be used unless you understand that doing so will alter the perceptual colorspace and thus alter every process you do downstream - this can amplify errors and make your images less compatible with the colorspace transforms and looks.

You can safely use sharpening, white balance and lens profiles but leave everything else nulled (settings at 0 or default). If you render the Cinelog-C files with only these corrections you will have the maximum latitude when it comes to grading.

BTW, It's easier to white balance and sharpen images using the Cinelog Rec709 camera profile before switching back to Cinelog-C.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

jmanord

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #768 on: July 25, 2016, 11:23:50 PM »
Thank you for the quick reply Andy600. I think my question was based on a bad assumption as to my understanding of how Lightroom might work in conjunction with Cinelog DCP 2016. To use a bad analogy, my project level probably requires a plastic bubble level, and I'm wanting to use a self-leveling rotating laser level, so I appreciate your response given my lack of understanding. If the following is already answered by your previous post, I apologize, and will take a lack of a response as an indication of such.

My problem is finding a solution to recovering as much dynamic range in my footage as possible, without introducing additional image degradation, and maintaining as simple a workflow as possible. I'm sure that problem is unique to me ;)  For a specific example, I opened this http://db.tt/dPPBr3wH file in Resolve.

Here is how it looks without changes directly from Resolve:


Here is how it looks after checking the highlight recovery box and moving the highlight slider completely to the left:


Here is how it looks in Lightroom after adjusting exp., highlight recovery, and shadows:


Here is what I would typically consider my desired end result, which was edited in Lightroom:


The clouds in Resolve exhibit an odd pink cast and a slight posterizing effect. This example is one of the better outcomes of using Resolve's highlight recovery tool. Often times, the results include an extreme checkerboard effect of pink blocks in the recovered highlights area. The obvious solution would be to use Lightroom, but that may or may not introduce the dreaded flicker problem. What I don't know is if/how adjusting my workflow using Cinelog with Lightroom would allow me to achieve a similar desired end result. This is more than likely a case of me trying to use the wrong tool the wrong way for the wrong job. Thank you again for your help!

Danne

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #769 on: July 26, 2016, 12:01:53 AM »
Interesting.
Try working with the tone curve tool as it,s linear opposed to non linear highlight recovery in acr.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12796.msg129978#msg129978

The only way I can get back clouds like this in a linear way is through dcraw (-H 2 option) but that will mean for you leaving the current colorspace system and that itself has its caveats. If recovery of highlights like shown can be done outside acr I am very keen to know how it,s done.
Feel free to put up a dng file for tests.

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #770 on: July 26, 2016, 12:44:43 AM »
@Jmanord

The highlights were clipped when shooting and there is no way you will pull back the lost information but I've uploaded the default Cinelog-C output from ACR (as a TIFF) for you to compare/grade.

Cinelog-C 5D Mark III profile. No sharpening, As Shot WB, no NR.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/sample-conversions/Cinelog-C_5D3_Profile.tif

Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

Danne

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #771 on: July 26, 2016, 12:53:33 AM »
That is impressive.

jmanord

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #772 on: July 26, 2016, 01:15:17 AM »
@Andy600 thank you for the file! Wow, your tiff shows much more information than is present in Resolve and Lightroom pre highlight recovery versions. I suppose I was hoping to use the results shown in the tiff you uploaded as a starting point for grading in Lightroom, which is what I was trying to ask in my original question, but doing a poor job of. I'm guessing it would make more sense to export the tiff from Lightroom and correct the file in Resolve with the added option of applying Cinelog-C luts? Thank you again for your help!

@Danne thank you for the feedback and alternative solution. The added dimension on the tone curve tool is a step too far beyond moving a slider left and right for my limited skills :( I'm always looking for the quick and easy solution to fix my footage, but as Andy600 alluded too, I should probably spend more time on getting correctly exposed material. If it wasn't for the ability to correct white balance with MLV, I'd probably never bother recording video.

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #773 on: July 26, 2016, 01:15:45 AM »
Just had a quick play:

Cinelog Film Look 10. Lowered exposure a touch, pushed the highlights, added some midtone contrast and unsharp mask. 30 seconds ;)

Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

jmanord

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #774 on: July 26, 2016, 01:34:53 AM »
That's fantastic! So, was this done in Resolve from the exported tiff, or Lightroom, or something else? Sorry for being so obtuse, I just want to make sure I'm understanding what the workflow looks like to get your result. 30 seconds makes me want to cry.