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Messages - gabriielangel

#1
Speed Test: Lexar Professional 1667x SDXC UHS-II 256GB
R250/W120
Product Number: LSD256CBNA1667 / A0185-V60-256BSL A (Written behind the Card)
MDT: 2020/12
PRV: 1.0

Highest CropMood speed reached for a 1 minute Clip (Peak Orange): 88.8 MB/s @ 2.8k/14bits
Highest CropMood speed reached for "Continuous"  (Steady Green): 78 MB/s @ 2.8k/14bits
Highest CropMood speed reached for a 15 seconds clip (Red Speed): 91 MB/s @ 2.8k/14bits
240MHz / SDR104



Card has been formatted in camera (EOS M), moved to a Mac to copy the CropMood files, then back to the camera to make it bootable.





The testing method is outlined here: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=25841.msg245694#msg245694


This card did not exhibit any problems and was consistent. 
The card triggered a few "Frame Error" messages during the test.

This card has a high enough Data Rate to handle good brightness at 2.5k 14bits / 2.8k 12bits 1:1.

So far, I have noted that the difference in data rate between the camera stopping by itself at around 1 minute, and it going past the 2 minutes mark is often of 1-2 MB/s for most cards.

Unless you plan on recording clips at 3K 1:1/12bits (or Bright 2.8k 1:1), Samsung EVO Plus, Sandisk Extreme Pro and Lexar Silver 1066x are a better value, as this is one of the most expensive cards.
#2
General Help Q&A / Re: Micro SD Cards
March 20, 2024, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: names_are_hard on March 07, 2024, 02:52:24 PMMicro SD vs SD card, both are the same.  Real shooting experience.

There is no way for us to replicate what you are seeing because you don't give any information, so it's not useful to anyone.  If you list what cards you use, in what conditions, people could check.

What happens with microSD cards is that not every SD adapter is created equal.
For example, the white samsung adapters make it easy to remove the microSD card, so it ends up moving a little sometimes and you get a faulty contact. With Lexar and some Sandisk, it is so tight that it is hard to remove the card from the adapter.
Usually, just removing the microSD card from the adapter and pushing it back in properly solves all problems.
#3
Yes! But on the EOS M, the screenshot fumction only works to capture the ML Menus. Raw video needs to be turned off, so False colors and other overlays are not recorded.

I tried with both Bilal's (Raw video needs to be turned off manually) and Danne's (Raw video is turned off automatically) variants.

#4
Quote from: names_are_hard on March 20, 2024, 05:44:54 PMScreenshots: these now save in BMP format, not PPM.  This means...  you can view them just by opening the card.
It would be a good idea to eventually allow screenshots to also capture overlays. It would make taking examples in the field a lot easier, as holding a phone to take screenshots under the sun is not always convenient :)
#5
General Help Q&A / Re: Swapping SD cards
March 19, 2024, 03:12:24 AM
Your results are in line with what I got when I tested mine here: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?msg=245718
#6
General Help Q&A / Re: Swapping SD cards
March 18, 2024, 11:06:21 PM
Power up your camera in video mode.
Press MENU
Go to the last menu to the right -Custom Functions(C.Fn)-
Go to menu number 6 to the right.
Make sure the Trash button function is assigned to 0:Normal
#7
General Help Q&A / Re: Swapping SD cards
March 18, 2024, 08:25:40 PM
Quote from: Wannabe on March 18, 2024, 07:04:49 PMDon't know what is causing this difference in benchmark results.

PS:
I haven't tested the card in Photo Mode because I don't know how to access the Crop Mood settings in that mode.

You access ML the same way, by holding the trash button a few seconds.
Try formatting your card in camera. Use the "Keep ML Files" option, restart.
In photo mode (Use the middle one, not the left most A) As soon as you start the benchmark, press the blue  play button. That's how the benchmark performs best.

The camera often records better after 1 or 2 recordings. Why? No one seems to know. But I didn't know this extended to the benchmark also. There is an option for "Card Warmup" but it is not necessary with the eos m. Just record for a few seconds once, then the subsequent recordings will be done at full speed.
#8
@Zenny, If you want to avoid having a darker image than the camera can handle cleanly, you can use the false colors to help expose properly. This is not a Sony which can record cleanly at ISO 800! Have a look at this image (Click for the animation) The whole white portion was exposed so that it showed the corresponding False Color.

You see that at ISO 100, you can expose above Dark Grey (Charcoal) and have a relatively clean image, but as you bump up ISO, you must expose more to have a noise-free image.
At ISO 200, the noise starts being quite noticeable below Orange and at ISO 400, you need to be above Orange.
Looking at the images you posted, my guess is that most of the frame was exposed around the Cyan region, which is quite noisy.
To get the cleanest image possible, most of the frame should be exposed above the point where noise starts becoming noticeable.

Also, if you want small details like the tree branches in your images to come out sharp, you need to avoid using the 1x3 modes, as those make small details "Mushy".

@iaburn's advice is one to follow. If you need more light, you can use a tripod and use a slower shutter speed, so that you can keep the lenses at smaller apertures for more sharpness.

I did 2 posts on false colors / exposure vs noise here if you're interested:
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?msg=245760
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?msg=245761
#9
Quote from: Danne on February 20, 2024, 07:46:45 AM
Check built in console while program is crashing for hints.

WIll have to do more investigation on my end then.
How do I display the console?
Are you guys using the MLVApp version downloaded from the official site, or the runner on the GitHub page?(That one won't run on my machine, OS too old I think)
Could you try the pixel map I downloaded: https://bit.ly/4bKWy5C
(To make sure the error doesn't happen when downloading the file manually)

EDIT: It's because I downloaded the individual pixel map file manually. I just downloaded the whole MLVApp Code .zip file and got the pixel map from there. It works as expected now.
Maybe someone can have a look at the pixel file I downloaded individually (Linked above) to figure out what went wrong.
#11
Hello, I tested Danne's magiclantern-crop_mood.2024Feb18_Custom.EOSM202.zip and ran into the following issue:
MLVApp 1.14, official build.
OSX 10.13.6

If I load a clip I just recorded using the new 1920x1080p preset, without the focus pixel map installed, the clip opens fine (With the focus dots showing).

If I shutdown MLV APP, Install the new 80000331_1992x1109.fpm; when I launch the app and open any 1920x1080p clip, I get a beach ball and I need to force-quit (I'm on OSX).

If I launch the app again, but load a 2.8k clip this time, all is well.

If I shutdown MLVApp, remove the 80000331_1992x1109.fpm file, relaunch and load a 1920x1080p Clip, the clip opens fine again.

In any case, as long as I load any previously recorded clip at a resolution other 1920x1080p, it works without a problem.
#12
Here's a test I made last week, checking overhead. Could be useful as a baseline.

The effects of different settings on Write Speeds / Recording times:

Because I didn't know what the parameters were ahead of time, I give the following figures in seconds of recording time instead of speed in MB/s.
This allowed me to set a fixed exposure level and only change Settings.
As the slightest change in exposure can make a difference of +- 30 seconds, this approach will make the test length more manageable, because there are too many variables to take into account to do several trials to check repeatability.

Card Tested: Samsung Evo Plus microSDXC UHS-I 512GB MB-MC512K (Fresh Low-Level Format)
Build Used:magiclantern-crop_mood.2024Feb11_Custom.EOSM202.zip
Resolution: 2880x1206 14 bit
More Hacks set to Always, unless specified.
Filming a test chart on LCD Screen, slightly off-focus to avoid moiré (Which would affect the Data Rate).

I set the exposure to be slightly under the Write Speed limit of the card,  so I could get a max record time of about 30 seconds (Baseline).

1- MF (Manual Focus), No Custom Buttons Assignments, Kill GD ON = 31-35 Seconds (Baseline)

2- AF (Auto Focus), No Custom Buttons Assignments, Kill GD ON = 31-45 Seconds

3- MF, No Custom Buttons Assignments, Kill GD Off = 20-21 Seconds

4- AF, No Custom Buttons Assignments, Kill GD Off = 20-21 Seconds

5-MF, Custom Buttons INFO x10 Zoom , SET False Colors, Kill GD On = 31-33 seconds

6-AF, Custom Buttons INFO x10 Zoom , SET False Colors, Kill GD On = 31-33 seconds

7-AF, Custom Buttons INFO x10 Zoom, SET False Colors, U/D ISO, Kill GD On = 6 seconds (31-33 seconds if More Hacks = Always)

8- MF, Custom Buttons INFO x10 Zoom, SET False Colors, U/D ISO, Kill GD On = 6 seconds (31-33 seconds if More Hacks = Always)

9-MF, Custom INFO Aperture Expo, SET False Colors, U/D ISO, Kill GD On= 6 Seconds (31-33 seconds if More Hacks = Always)

10-AF, Custom INFO Aperture Expo, SET False Colors, U/D ISO, Kill GD On= 6 Seconds (31-33 seconds if More Hacks = Always)

11-AF, Custom INFO x10 Zoom, SET False Colors, Kill GD On, Histogram On= 31 Seconds

12-AF, Custom INFO x10 Zoom, SET False Colors, Kill GD Off, Histogram On= 16-18 Seconds

13-AF, Custom INFO x10 Zoom, SET False Colors, Kill GD Off, Histogram On= 11-16  Seconds; Kill GD On=30-31 Seconds

14-AF, Custom INFO x10 Zoom, SET False Colors, Kill GD On,  =1:07 (I lowered the exposure to get a New, Longer Baseline)

14b-AF, Custom INFO x10 Zoom, SET False Colors, U/D ISO, Kill GD On,  = 6 Seconds

14c-AF, Custom INFO x10 Zoom, SET False Colors, Kill GD Off,  = 21-25 Seconds

Conclusion: For those who prefer using the higher resolution / high bit depth Presets, or just extend recording times, the following is recommended:
Kill Global Draw must be set to On;
and ISO / Aperture assignments to the custom buttons must be avoided while recording.
#13
Quote from: Danne on February 19, 2024, 01:23:32 AM
The map causing Mlv App to freeze? Works over here  8).

Yes. If I load a clip recorded at any other resolution, everything is fine.
If I load a clip I just recorded at 1080p, without the focus pixel map installed, the clip opens fine (With the focus dots showing).
If I shutdown MLV APP, Install the new 80000331_1992x1109.fpm; when I launch the app and open a 1080p clip, I get a beach ball and I need to force-quit (I'm on OSX).
If I launch the app again, but load a 2.8k clip this time, all is well. MLVApp 1.14, official build.
#14
Quote from: Danne on February 18, 2024, 08:27:56 AM
New build

- When Histogram and RAW-based is enabled 14bit preview whie in other bits is turned off working as regular 12,11,10bit preview. Fixes the histogram issue mentioned by @gabriielangel

Needs some testing.

@Frank7D, Yes, stretched, but only a little right? Maybe could be done better but I don´t know how.

The 1920x1080 preset needs a proper focus pixel map. The one I just downloaded makes my MLVApp freeze.
It records without corruption.
Preview is a little stretched, but as long as we know that it records fine (it does), we can at least see the full, uncropped preview.
It doesn't disturb me, as I use AF before recording, but someone who uses MF could chime in.

Note: Because we cannot skip the MLVApp Step no matter what, it would be wiser to record  using the 1440P preset and export to 1920x1080 with MLVApp. This gives sharper images (Oversampling) and the crop isn't as brutal.
The real reason to use the 1920x1080 preset would be to record 14-12bit Uncompressed (Which has been removed in this version).
When recording on a ski slope for example, this would prevent the camera from stopping the recording because of sudden variations in image brightness, which is likely to happen when recording at 14bit lossless.
It would also allow you, for example,  to clip the highlights a little to get more exposure for people's faces, as long as you know that if you clip too much, the pink highlights cannot be removed.

The histogram now works as before at all bit depths. I tried with both Kill Global Draw ON and OFF.
So, to make it clearer:
If you enable the Histogram, the Preview's Bit Depth is always the same as the recording Bit Depth selected (If you bump up ISO to 6400 and raise shutter to 1/1000 or more it is easy to verify.)

If Histogram is disabled, The Preview's bit Depth is always 14bit, regardless of the recording Bit Depth selected. The recording Bit Depth selected will kick in as soon as you hit record and will return to 14bit when you stop.
Especially when using 11-10bit, this gives an artifact-and-color-cast-free preview, which makes focus and evaluation a lot more enjoyable.

I will use it during the week and let you know if I find anything else.
#15
Hello, The Histogram is broken at lower bit depths with the latest build magiclantern-crop_mood.2024Feb12_Custom.EOSM202.zip.

To reproduce the issue:

Load any 1:1 Preset (Because Histogram is steadier in this mode)
Set Histogram to RAW-based (RGB) / ETTR hint
Set the preset to 14bit
Aim the camera at something bright and steady (Lamp, LCD Screen)
Take a Histogram reading
Press Record
Take a Histogram Reading again, Everything is ok, the number is identical.
Set the preset to 12bit
Take a Histogram reading
Press Record
Take a Histogram Reading again, The Histogram number is now higher than it should.
The number will go progressively higher than normal as you select lower bit depths.

My guess is that the Histogram takes its reading after the Live View Brightening adjustment. Because you recently made it so everything stays 14bit until we hit record (...) fill in the blanks :)
Although it has always been off by about +-0.2 EV in the past when using 12,11 and 10bit, it was still close enough. Now the difference is such that it will display OVER, so we can't do the translation in our heads.

It was last seen working as before in Crop Mood 2024Jan08 Custom, and 2024Jan12 Custom releases (I don't have the others ATM).

BTW, the changes you've made in the Movie menu really make a positive difference, as everything is "Right There" (As opposed to the Jan08 and Jan12 versions I just tried).
#16
By how much can we reduce the Data Rate with Underexposure?
Another chapter in the quest for Data Rate Optimization on Eos m.

Several people report long recording times on the various social media, but after close inspection, one sees that the footage is often severely underexposed.
So, how much gain (or rather, loss) can we expect, while keeping the quality as high as possible? See the attached animated .png below.

at 2.8k 1:1 14bit, The Data Rate can be reduced by 7%, by underexposing 1 Stop; and 13% by underexposing 2 stops (Will vary slightly depending on the scene being shot, of course).
Because the Bit Depth reduction is obtained by reducing the Analog Gain in the camera, Underexposing 2 stops equals switching to 12bit (3 Stops=11bit, 4 Stops=10bit).
BUT, as you can see in the image below, Underexposing is a lot noisier than reducing the bits with Analog Gain(!)
Therefore, as soon as you need to underexpose significantly, it is better to lower the Bit Depth to the closest match instead.

The color chart was lit by 2 LED panels, and was exposed so that the white square was right below the clipping point.
I recorded 1 clip per aperture, in 1/3 stop decrements. I then boosted the exposure accordingly in MLV App to normalize the smaller aperture clip's brightness against the first clip (Wide Open).
This clearly shows that the clip recorded at 12bit (12bit-ML) is cleaner than the clip recorded 2 stops underexposed (12bit-Equivalent). The same goes for 10 and 11bit at the transition points.
Also, the Data Rate is lower for the clips recorded with Analog Gain Bit Depth reduction (When you change the Bit Depth in the Movie / Crop Mood menus), because of the lower noise.
You can also see that at image 13, 4 Stops below, the noise is already quite apparent.

So, again, it would be a good idea to add a 13bit option, as this would allow a significant reduction of the Data Rate, while having almost no impact on image quality.
This would also give about 1 extra stop of cleaner exposure (Compared to underexposing by 1 Stop).
With a good card, it would be easier to reap the benefits of recording at higher Resolutions / Bit Depth / Exposures.
(Click on the image to load the full resolution animated version)




All the images in a .zip file, if you get dizzy: https://bit.ly/3SB7FoP
#17
Quote from: Danne on January 18, 2024, 08:42:11 AM
New build:
When up/down or SET or INFO buttons are assigned to ISO or Aperture More hacks is bypassed. If up/down button is disabled and other functions to SET and INFO are assigned than ISO and Aperture More hacks is active.

Could you elaborate a bit on the intended effect of adding More_harck Allow? If what's in the quote above is still active, I'm not sure what it targets exactly.
#18
I Think Test 2 is better also, because we see the whole recorded frame (Some of the bottom was missing in the original preset). Test 1 is too small and could give the impression that something is broken.
In Test 2, there is a distortion at the bottom of the frame in the preview, but the image records cleanly.
#19
About the Feb05 build additional tests, I tried the following settings at 2160x1620, 10 seconds clips, 5 trials each:

Manual Focus, Kill Global Draw On, 12bit
Manual Focus, Kill Global Draw Off, No Overlays, 12bit
Manual Focus, Kill Global Draw Off, Histogram On Screen, 12bit
Manual Focus, Kill Global Draw On, Histogram On, 12bit
Auto Focus, Kill Global Draw Off, Histogram On Screen, 12bit
Auto Focus, Kill Global Draw Off, Histogram On Screen, 14bit
Auto Focus, Kill Global Draw On, Histogram On, 14bit
Alternating AF/MF, Kill Global Draw On, Histogram On, 14bit for 6 trials

I got 1 corrupted frame on 1 out of 5 trials with Auto Focus, Kill Global Draw Off, Histogram On Screen, 12bit
No corrupted frames in any of the other trials.

Same Sandisk Extreme Pro 128GB R170W/W90 (Freshly Low-Level formatted)
Same button assignments as previously reported.
Files recorded @ 76MB/s (The cand can handle  76.5 in the Green)

I did not change focus, switch presets or used any of the custom buttons.








#20
I updated my EOS M Data Rate Estimator Chart: Here
You need to save it locally or copy it to your google drive in order to use it properly.

No need to enter the numbers manually, you can now select one of the tested SD/micro SD cards using a Dropdown Menu.
Hopefully, more people will test their cards so that we can have a larger database.

What I have gathered so far is that, unless one plans on using only the 3x3 Modes, a card which can remain in the Green Zone at 76 MB/s or more
is required to be able to use most presets comfortably @23.976 fps. The higher resolution presets require one of the fastest cards.
It appears that some manufacturers have some cards run with a series of short "Bursts", so that those look good on benchmarks.
Although ok for file transfers, what we need here are steady sustained speeds! So, a different kind of benchmark is necessary.

If the quality of the image is important, 14 and 12 bit are to be preferred. At 12 bit, due to the way the bit depth is reduced,
we are already running almost 2 stops below optimal exposure. So trying to underexpose further to lower the data rate is not ideal (Would progressively make the image noisier).
I have seen a few posts on the facebook group where people are complaining about the noise, not knowing that recording at 10 bits is not ideal, and requires a very bright scene to look decent.
In such cases, choosing a faster card / higher bit depth is the best cure. This may all be obvious for most people on this forum, but it is definitely not so for someone first putting their hands on the cam!
#21
Quote from: Danne on February 05, 2024, 05:11:50 PM
Thanks for your findings.
I consider 12bit as standard for all presets.
Corrupted frames in 1620p. Might be overhead histogram or similar. What was enabled? What SD card is used? Run 12bit and don't add global draw items, manual focus. Still corrupted frames?
Thanks for all your tests. Valuable too many.

Sandisk Extreme Pro 128GB R170W/W90 (Freshly Low-Level formatted)
Kill Global Draw On (So Nothing Was On Screen)
Manual Focus (Feb02, Feb04 and Feb05. The tests I did before that were all on AF)
U/D Buttons Off
INFO Button x10 Zoom
SET Button False Colors
TAP Screen Off
(I always use the same setup)

Today, running the Feb05 Build,
Recording at 12bit, I got a corrupted frame using 1376x2322 (See Image)

Although anything is possible, I have gone through the preset thing at least 6 times since Jan 1, so that's 25+ Presets + the 3x3 Presets, times 6.
9 of those presets have a higher Megapixel Count. So I'd lean more towards a recent change.
I am unable to reproduce it on demand though. So a few more tests are required.

I will record some this evening and let you know.






#22
Tested magiclantern-crop_mood.2024Feb04_Custom.EOSM202.zip

Tested every resolution, no more black / red bars at the bottom of any preset.
No corrupted frames, except for the new preset. This one is strange, because out of 3 recordings, 2 showed glitches on screen while I were recording, but only 1 file had corrupted frames in it.
And 1736x868 48fps gave a corrupted frame even in manual mode.
The image is free of artifacts.

About the 3k preset:
After recording yesterday and last time with the watch scene, I realized that the 3k preset cannot work at 14 bits. The data rate is way too high,
and you need to underexpose 2 stops (Which is equivalent to switching to 12 bits) for it to work.

See the scene I recorded for the tests below. You can see that it is reasonably exposed and not overly bright. Plenty of shadow areas and it still needs 94 MB/s.

If you look at the screenshot, you'll see that 20, 21 and 22fps brings it within reach for the fastest cards.
So, it would be a good idea to take the same approach you took with the Full-Res 1x3 presets, whereas 14bit uses a lower frame rate.
This would make 14bit usable until faster cards are found.

#23
Quote from: Danne on February 04, 2024, 02:07:02 PM
New build:

Could you test this build @iaburn?

- Adjusting powersavetiming registry probably causing random image tearing. To be tested.

commit
https://bitbucket.org/Dannephoto/magiclantern_hg_02/commits/2e041f5e51fbcdbd931399b1e31109c1db45ca67

I just tested again, will post results tomorrow pm as it is still compressing as I am writing this, but the new 1620p preset gives corrupted frames right from the start (I can see it onscreen as it records).
I switched to 2.8k to see, no problem there.
Then back to 1620p and it did it again.
This seems to be recent, as when I recorded last time (Feb 2, Jan 29), it did not happen.
#24
Quote from: Danne on February 02, 2024, 11:29:03 PM
New build uploaded:
- Fixed following presets, height tuning.
1280x2160, 1472x2208, 1600x2400, 3072x1308, 2520x1080, 1920x1280, 1736x1160, HFR: 1736x976, 1736x868, 1736x790, 1736x738.
- Added new pixel maps to Mlv App
- Reworked 3K 1x1 so that it is now 2.39:1 instead of 2.35:1.

Thanks @gabriielangel
If we find anymore pixelated presets please let me know which ones.
Since you asked so nicely  8)

I tested all the presets while I were at it. For some reason GitHub isn't cooperating, so I can't check the focus pixels. But only the following stilll have issues:

1736x976 HFR: Corrupted Frame (But this is the one showing the black preview. I found that HFR 16:9 and 2:1 show ok if you move the focus box Up by 4 units. Other ratios remain black);
1472x2208 Black line at bottom
5208x3478 Black or Red line at bottom, depending on exposure.
1920x1280 Needs Focus Pix
2560x1440 Black line at bottom
3072x1284 Needs Focus Pix
1552x2118 Needs Focus Pix
1600x2400 Needs Focus Pix



I filmed a white card this time to make sure I wouldn't miss anything, but I'll film a real scene on your next release to make sure the image didn't get hurt.
#25
Quote from: iaburn on February 01, 2024, 11:27:45 PM
Try enabling "Preview toggle" on the RAW video menu, and also remove any action assigned to the Half-Shutter on "Customize buttons". If you do that, half shutter press and (*) will toggle between real-time and actual framing. Not sure why half shutter affects (*) though, maybe is not possible to assign an action just to (*).
The * is assigned in the Canon Menu's Custom Functions(C.fn). In C.Fn IV menu 5, some settings transfer Auto-Focus to the * Button.

But Just enabling "Preview Toggle" Did the trick! You can then use the * Button to see the whole frame.