Messages

It would be cool to see a set of results across a lot of different systems.

I like this idea, we need to find some nice short MLV so anyone can benchmark and share the result.. And later it can be used to measure how certain processing algorithms behave on different systems.

@names_are_hard perfect

What could be really cool - if one day someone could make proper working in-camera ML help for all fresh builds. I remember first time into ML menu I thought "wow! how many things.. And we have built-in help here, how convenient..." but.. it wasn't there   Although now it seems like something absolutely insignificant, for newbies it can make a hude difference.

[Maybe]

In this case, the installation instructions seem to lack the details of an important step.

I don't argue with anything you say, of course the instructions and wiki needs an update. There just aren't enough people with deep ML knowledge and free time to edit the wiki.
But.... I just don't quite understand how a very experienced developer can't google such a simple thing when there is even a joke that coding is the ability to google professionally
Maybe this is the correct behavior for open source projects, asking developers directly about any little thing.

I just want to say that most likely - everything that you write (or I write) will not have any effect, because people just behave as they behave. And have rights to do so, since the freedom of speech.

About developers -- well.. does ML need them or not?

They are needed, of course. On the other hand, developers who will be offended by everything, most likely, will not stay on the project for long.


By the way, if you watch any YT video with installation process and scroll to comments... You will see that even when there is such a detailed video instruction, people still have a lot of problems. And they ask all sorts of questions, so it's almost impossible to cover everything in any wiki or manual. This requires a forum, but here each user is approved manually (or now it's not the case?)
I think OP didn't answer just because he already forgot about ML forum when his account got approved.


I went to the wiki just to see how this part of the instruction is written.

Step 2. Installation

• Format the card in the camera (low-level format).
• Unzip all of the files from Magic Lantern zip archive to the root of your card.
• Launch the Firmware Update process and follow the messages on the screen.
• Once you see the green confirmation screen, restart your camera. Done.
• If anything goes wrong, check the Troubleshooting section.

so... it specifically says: Launch the firmware update. maybe something like "from your camera menu" should be added... although it seems obvious.
It also doesn't say that after copying files to the card, you need to insert it into the camera


In the future, to help the project, I want to make YouTube videos explaining common misunderstandings about ML, and other instructional videos. Of course, this will require a little consultation with developers. But so far, my skill is not enough for quality content, and I don't want to make lame videos. I know that I can do it and thus make a small contribution to the project. So more people will know, more people will be interested... For example, Zeek did a great job popularizing ML.

And if someone is ready to spend their time improving the wiki, then they should do it, why not..

What really puzzles me is why people ask this types of questions on forum? So then they wait for 3 days before someone will answer or what if no one will answer at all.. when you can just google and watch any first youtube video with installation process and clearly see the "fw update" step there.

I think sometimes it just happens. Sometimes even a very smart person can stuck on something that even 5-years old can figure out in 5 seconds. I had that moments too and then when you realise it - big facepalm


But these days I see more and more questions on forums that can be googled in less than a minute. Sometimes even the first result is the answer. And it is a global tendention all over the internet. Why? I don't know. People have changed..


About attitude - well.. do you need that thing on your camera or not? If yes, then what difference does it make if somebody is not really that "nice" as you imagined he would be.. The question was answered anyway, so it's up to you now.

When you say "ML community should do this, and shouldn't do that" - I don't think somebody will actually listen. Because there is no "team" or something, or company, or corporate ethics. It's just people. Individuals. So someone may listen and someone may not.


When I was registering here, I was waiting for.... maybe a week, and account has not been approved. So I had to contact someone and ask directly. I think this is why we don't see many people here. And almost no new developers then.

It's an interesting idea, but I don't really understand why do you need that 5%. Just compose your shots keeping in mind that stabilize will crop just a little... is it really making any difference? and 5% is a lot, usually when I use warp stabilizer if it goes more than 101-102% zoom then the footage is probably too shaky to be used, you will see rolling shutter artefacts and motion blur where it shouldn't be... and significant quality loss because of zooming in.
Anyway sometimes after stabilizing it requires only 100.5% zoom but sometimes as high as 102-103% and you can not really predict it. So what exact margin do you need then, if it's different all the time?

And... when you really inspect your footage you will find that most camera shakes happens is in vertical direction. So (in theory) you can increase your vertical resolution, for example to 1920x1200 when you need only 1080. Then after stabilization turn off automatic zoom and crop it manually but only watching when left and right sides looks ok, and up and down sides will be with black borders flying around, just crop it to 1080. This should significantly reduce zooming-in, maybe at least two times.
I never tried it though because Premiere doesn't like when you use clips with different aspect ratios, so you need to nest everything and I'm too lazy honestly

But the more I use digital stabilisation, the more I want to buy a steadicam. I just always see rolling shutter or motion blur artefacts. And overall less quality image after digital crop-zoom.

When I bought second-hand 550D and found mentions of ML somewhere on some forums, my friend also used CHDK on his old point and shoot camera so the whole concept wasn't new to me...

But the real RAW video passion and all that came from youtube. I saw a clip which was shot on 50D in raw, it was some sort of amateur short film, just a few scenes actually, but I was stunned by the image. It was so cinematic and absolutely not like typical digital video. All colors and the whole "feel" was completely different from what we all used to see on youtube. So I immediately forgot about 4k and all marketing crap It was ~5 years ago, or maybe more.

Is this area exist on the captured footage also? 48 fps preset uses less height so you have part of the screen frozen, it is ok..

Modules will work with builds from the first page:

you need to download this ML build from december:
https://bitbucket.org/reddeercity/crop_rec_5d2_50d/downloads/crop_rec-4k3x1-2.8k24p_3x3-48p-all-centered_8.18pm-5D2-eXperimental.2019Dec31.5D2212.zip

then, download new mlv_rec.mo
https://bitbucket.org/reddeercity/crop_rec_5d2_50d/downloads/1880_3x3-2152_5xZoom-5d2_7-5-2020-5.59pm-mlv_rec.zip
and place it into "modules"

then download new crop_rec.mo
https://bitbucket.org/reddeercity/crop_rec_5d2_50d/downloads/5D2-4k1x3-3k1x1-2.8k1x1-48pfhd3x3_7-10-2020_8.42pm_crop_rec.zip
and also place it into modules

and finally download
https://bitbucket.org/reddeercity/crop_rec_5d2_50d/downloads/5D2_mlv_playraw_twk_10-3-2020_8.18pm.zip
and add it too.

All those links are from the first post.
This way you'll get all latest features.. Except the 5k build, which can only be used separately.

how to enable 48 fps with realtime preview:

It could be somewhat tricky... try first start in 3.5k with 5x zoom, make sure everything is ok. then switch to crop-mode "off" (and 5x zoom still active), make sure the preview is working, and then select 48fps. If you still don't get preview, switch again to "off" with 5x zoom, and then back to 48.. try it couple of times, it should work.. maybe it could be done easier, I don't know.

And make sure selected type of preview is "auto"

why don't you put this info in your signature, so more people could see? I mean like link to this post and a brief description

All I want is good 1080 p image with great canon  colors. I am in love with colors of 50 d

If you want to use full sensor area, this camera is limited to 1568 pixels wide which is not exactly full-hd 1920... Of course if you are not using crop mode.. and in crop mode you will be using VERY tiny sensor area, so you need really wide angle lenses.
I think this is very limiting. And CF card can be more expensive than the camera itself

And colors.. I don't think you get "Canon" colors in mlv raw, it's all in your hands though. Raw is terrible when you first open it in MLV App for example, but it is RAW so you can do any corrections and basically make colors look exactly as you want.
Is mlv's from 50D looks really better than from EOS M for example? Maybe you just like particular color grading from someone, and not the camera colors itself?

could you post samples from the same clip? because on last two you have background in focus, while on first it is not..

less noise and a cleaner image in the darks compared to the EOS-M

It could be better power filtration, different dc/dc converters and all analog stuff around the sensor and a/d conversion. EOS-M is so compact they could sacrifice some performance in order to fit everything in that tiny form-factor..

For example, in audio world two different audio interfaces with identical chips inside can have different characteristics. And it is mainly because of a difference in power, shielding and all that stuff. Basically, analog stuff around the digital chip.

ok, it was fun experience no result doesn't mean no progress, now we know something.

by the way,

because I am applying them when 0xC0400008 = 0x363110f

I just remembered, with previous builds when applying the patch with "print values" activated I can see 1363110f for a very short time, in the moment when patch applies or may be right after it. So  maybe it is the problem if you are waiting for 363110f

can't apply, first time does nothing and second time camera freezes with card red light on, so I have to pull the battery. Doesn't matter in photo mode or in live view, or video... second time is always freeze

ok.... something strange happens. three possible ways:

so initial value is 3000003
then I apply the patch, now it is 18003
benchmark? unrealistic numbers same as with 0 instead of 3,
93,
4970 etc
I reboot the camera, "shutdown not clean and so on", reboot again
select "2" apply the patch - the value is 2010003 now


second scenario:

I reboot the camera,
apply the patch first - the value is 18003,
select "2", apply the patch again - the value is 10003
benchmark - same unrealistic results,
but the value now switched back to 18003.......

the same thing if I select "1", value switches back to 18003.


third scenario - I don't reboot the camera after the first test,
then "2" - 10003,
benchmark - unrealistic speeds 4800, 4900, without 93.
check value? 10003. so value holds.

and everything the same with "1", 8003 holds.

I think it didn't work..

so, initial value was 3000003 of course.
after the patch - 3018003
benchmark  - usual default speeds, and after benchmark new value still holds
"set C0400004 to 2" - 3010003
benchmark  - usual full speed again, the value 3010003 as it should
"set C0400004 to 1" - 3008003
benchmark - everything the same again, value 3008003

So no half speed or anything.. maybe it will work without 3's?

cool, but the link is broken

I downloaded it anyway, using the old link address with new file

I can only confirm the same result, red led on and it's not responding. It was very interesting anyway, thank you for trying to achieve something for such old cameras. I have to go too

the same, first time camera rebooted by itself with "camera was not shut down cleanly", second/third time it got frozen so I need to pull the battery.

Could you try enabling "Print values" while running card benchmarks, 0xC0400008 should be 0x1363110F all/most of time, can you confirm this?

confirmed! stays 1363110f

it switches back to 363110f between the writes/reads, and it's back to 363110f after the test is finished.

Get a decent cardreader. See cardreader test list at https://www.cameramemoryspeed.com for starters.
About SDR (sorry about the typo) and DDR: https://hjreggel.net/cardspeed/cs_sdxc.html

Sure, it is good to have a decent cardreader. Maybe when times will become better.. For now, I already have 3 indecent cardreaders So I guess I'll stick with them for now.. Thanks for links.

New test build for 550D:

ok here we go:
0xC0400008 value initially: 363110f
after taking a picture: 1363110f very briefly, and it immediately goes to 363110f

-From "Apply patch" submenu, keep 0xC0400004 as it is, change 0xC0400008 to 2 --> click on "Apply patch", write down 0xC0400008 value

the value is still 363110f,
benchmark shows the same default speeds,
and the value is still 363110f after that.

Yes, it's available on my 700D (even if it not mentioned in ROMs, there is preset which result in 25 MB/s).
Further more, even on 5D3 without overclocking there is a built in preset which result in 25MB/s write speed (that's outside UHS-I mode, without 1.8 Signaling too).

Also, 550D have 16/24/48 MHz built in presets and 16 MHz isn't multiple of 12 MHz.

Canon has configured clock speeds in a way, I am trying to understand Canon's way on DIGIC 4.

ah, ok, I see now I thought it was just simple divider or something..

Sorry, but I'm unable to decypher your message.
Do you have a card labeled with V30 but not showing write rates above 30 MByte/s using a cardreader?

exactly, I mentioned it in previous post. it can only go to 21,9 read speed in camera and in cardreaders too. The same number.
I don't know what SDS50/DDR50 is, but I think cheap card readers just use 48 MHz..

Well guys I'm sorry if my messages are hard to decypher sometimes, I don't know why I write so. English is not my first language, but even when I speak in my native language people sometimes can't understand what I mean I'll try to express my thoughts more clearly.

I am trying to achieve *50 MHz* (25MB/s write speed). It should be possible according to SD Association .

is 50 available on other cameras? you mentioned:

In DIGIC 5 models there is a function which can toggle between the built in presets (24/48/96 MHz)

but 50? I mean, it is not multiple of 12... maybe 50 can not be generated from existing clocks. who knows..

UHS-I mode requires 1.8 Signaling (voltage switch), not presented in DIGIC 4 ROMs, this has to be implemented in a ML function (we are not doing this right now).

Is this required for SD card itself? I can make an adapter in hardware if it will be too hard to do in ML. Just for tests.

Ah, I see, good to know. Then maybe the card is somewhat capable but only in UHS-I, because 15/16 mb write is sloooow... Thank you

[Value goes to C]

@theBilalFakhouri well.... seems like my card is slow. In the card reader crystal disk mark shows the same numbers as in the camera, 21,9 for read maximum.

I found it on the internet, it is adata premier pro with green line. It is the same as this one:
https://www.memoryc.com/26902-32gb-adata-premier-pro-microsdhc-cl10-uhs-i-u3-v30-a2-memory-card-with-sd-adapter.html

but older, it is A1 not A2 class and SDHC and not XC, but UHS-I U3 and V30 too, so it should be at least 30mb/s or 50 if UHS? anyway it was rated as more, 60 or so. I don't think my card readers (they are old) can operate at UHS-I so maybe it's just card readers limits.

I think if the camera uses 48 mhz, and it gives 21,9 mb/s, then maybe the USB card readers also use 48 mhz? could be, because I know cheap USB devices usually get their clocks from usb, and usb is 12 mhz, so 48 is just a multiple of 12, they can easily get it with PLL. And numbers are the same then.


Ok so I did some tests again with new patch_ap.



After formatting the card in camera, stock settings:
(I did test three times for good measure)
first:
write 16.7 <--- strange
read 21.9
write 15.9
read 21.9

second:
write 15.7
read 21.9
write 15.9
read 21.9

third:
15.7
21.9
15.9
21.9

then everything was similar to what Walter Schulz measured.
0:
93.2
4923.0
4876.1
4970.0

2:
9.1
11.0
9.1
11.0

3: (just to check again)
15.7
21.9
15.9
21.9

4:
93.7
4923.0
4807.5
4970.8

5:
6.4
7.4
6.4
7.4
I didn't notice any strange camera behavior with 5..

6:
9.1
11.0
9.1
11.0

7:
15.9
21.9
15.7
21.9

8: Value goes to C,
93.3
4970.0
4853.0
4923.0

9:
6.4
7.4
6.4
7.4



So the only difference this time was in 4 and 0 and 8 behavior. Now I can get unrealistic numbers too
Are we trying to activate 50 mHz or UHS-I? what if 50 is just not possible in hardware?

I've added some info to the previous post..

p.s. before battery discharged, I tried to record something in raw with 0x7000003, and it seems like it is slightly better, again. I am not sure, because the numbers are different every time, but for example I tried to do about 10 recordings with default value and I could record 60-80 frames every time, and 85 frames ONCE. But with 0x7000003, I've got 85 frames 4 times, but sometimes it is still only 62 or so. So it seems slightly faster, but I am not sure.

Maybe I should try 0x700000X with X something without zero in second lsb, because it doesn't work when I tried 0 and 4 which is 0b000 and 0b100, everything goes black with 1 which is 0b01, but 2 works (0b10) and 3 too.
So I expect black screen at 5, working at 6 and 7, and corrupted display at 8. and then again black screen with 9 and so on.

ok let's skip raw recording for now...

I tried formatting the card in camera, and fat32 and exfat, with different cluster sizes and everything back in the day... doesn't change anything really. But I'll do it again because why not

And on my camera it never showed any unrealistic values. And Only value with 0, 4 and 8 changes to something else (to 3 or 7 or b), and as I can see in raw, only after the first recording. so I expect the same behavior with new module, although we'll see.. I'll report soon.