Messages

51

Feature Requests / USB port mic on the 50D?

« on: June 03, 2013, 09:58:34 AM »

Hey, Just following somewhat on the train of thought from this topic:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5915.msg45075;boardseen#new

It seems it's possible to transfer data to/from the camera via USB port in non ordinary ways.

Soooo, being a new found 50D owner, the natural conclusion...

The gopro camera has a cable that converts its mini USB port into a mic jack:

http://gopro.com/camera-accessories/3-5mm-mic-adapter

If using a battery powered 3.5mm mic, would it be possible to stream the info from it into the camera in a way that would be useful to gain audio/wav file record? Or even just a very basic audio data or some sort that could be comprehended in a way to make it good enough to synch an external recorder with.

I realise the 50D has the same digic processor as other cameras, but does this handle the audio component too, or just image processing? I think I recall someone saying something about seperate audio chips for various cameras.

Obviously the 50D has the most to gain from this possibility, but it could also be handy for other cameras having a second audio input/output if that helps with monitoring or whatever perhaps...

Yes, I have checked the "Dont ask for this/not possible" thread first... If this gets added, so be it

If it seems somewhat possible-ish I can find the pin outs for the gopro cable etc if need be.

Thanks.

52

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: June 03, 2013, 09:37:13 AM »

Anyone else notice the weird square noise pattern on the dngs?

Yep same here.

I've only noticable when zooming right in/pixel peeping though... I'll check a few 5x and 10x screen grabs and see if it looks the same.

Might be from the downscaling, as mentioned.

53

Raw Video / Re: RAW video default settings

« on: June 03, 2013, 03:44:23 AM »

Unfortunately not at this stage, as the settings are contained within the raw module that loads, not the cfg file.

IIRC someone said at the moment the only way to change the default settings would be to recompile the raw module with different settings to what it currently contains.

I'd say this issue will be addressed eventually, but obviously there's heaps going on currently keeping devs busy with other things directly relating to improving functionality.

54

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: June 03, 2013, 03:36:27 AM »

Hey John here are some bitrates for 50D in each mode, in 24fps/16:9 ratio:

640x480     - 9.2mb/s
720x406     - 11.6mb/s
960x540     - 20.7mb/s
1280x720   - 36.9mb/s
1329x742   - 39.2mb/s
1440x810   - 46.7mb/s
1592x896   - 57.1mb/s   (max res unless using 5x zoom)
1600x900   - 57.6mb/s   (5x zoom only)
1720x960   - 66.0mb/s   (5x zoom only)
1880x1056 - 79.5mb/s   (5x zoom only)
1920x1056 - 81.2mb/s   (5x zoom only)
1992x1056 - 84.2mb/s   (max res for 5x zoom mode)

As I mentioned earlier, despite speed tests showing 40-50mb/s I can happily sit at 1592x896 24fps until 4gb. The fastest rate it's shown while recording is 58mb/s.

55

Raw Video / Re: RAW on 650D / 700D?

« on: June 03, 2013, 02:43:12 AM »

Here's the thing though... the 'real' resolution from H264 isnt 4x as much or probably even twice as much, or less.

I cant remember the exact resolutions, but it takes the original raw data from the sensor, then creates a downscaled raw image (presumably the raw file we're poaching) then squashes it down to a resolution of approximately 1000 lines across, and then stretches it back out to 1920x1080 and encodes it in h264. As best I know more or less the same applies when recording to an external device, the footage has already been through this process of getting mashed around before it makes it out of the HDMI port.

When people dont want to upsample from a smaller clip because they'd rather not lose resolution... They arent necessarily getting any more resolution from a full sized 1080p 'Canon' shot anyway. But they are definitely getting worse colours/highlights etc.

56

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: June 03, 2013, 12:08:34 AM »

I've had inconsistent results with the read/write tests, that dont correlate to recoridng performance.

If I set FPS override to 0.15fps I get 60+mb/s, if 24fps I get 50ish, if 30fps I get 40-50+

So either the test is inaccurate if fps override is on, or there's something slowing it down in camera when it's at the higher frame rates.

Either way, regardless of what the speed tests indicate I seem to be able to record continuously up to about 55mb/s.

57

General Help Q&A / Re: Raw MK2 vs. MK3

« on: June 02, 2013, 09:50:32 AM »

Yes interestingly, the 50D has become a good option despite never having video capability to start with.

Reasons:

1: CF card slot instead of SD card - faster possible write speed. (The main issue with 60D is SD card)

2: It was a camera with a high burst rate, so had a large buffer - which is good for how raw video writes to the card.

3: It's remarkably cheaper than the 5Dmk3 or similar CF card camera.

4. 15 megapixels sensor means it gives less moire etc compared to 18-20ish megapixel crop sensor cameras.

On the downside though, the interface is currently a bit cumbersome until some more development is done...
Some issues with using electronic lenses selecting apeture and using image stabliser in raw recording mode.
And the camera can get a bit hot and chew through the batteries pretty quick when recording video. (Although my batteries might be a bit old in fairness)

I weighed up the pros and cons, saw a cheap 50D in great condition for sale and jumped at it.

58

Raw Video / Re: RAW on 650D / 700D?

« on: June 02, 2013, 09:34:05 AM »

600D is not UHS-I compatible though, unfortunately. I think the 650D is... But it may have/does have other bottle necks preventing it from writing that fast.

I've got a 95mb/s Sandisk 16gb card, that bangs on the 20-21mb/s limit with my 600D.

Vs 50-70mb/s that I get with the 50D & CF card so far...

59

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: June 02, 2013, 07:43:39 AM »

Is that with auto white balance?

I find it comes out really green looking when I use auto white balance in Lightroom... Have to ramp the Magenta slider right over in some cases.

(The above 'after' images look pretty green to my eyes)

60

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: June 02, 2013, 06:48:08 AM »

Is there a way to have the depth of field preview selected automatically while shooting raw video? 

I believe under one of the ML menus there is a 'sticky DOF preview' button - so you can press the button and it holds it down until you press it again. I havent tried it on the 50D yet, but have just been re-reading the ML user guide.

61

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: June 02, 2013, 04:49:26 AM »

I was reading something the other day, about older manual lenses giving lower contrast than those designed for DSLRs - as the sensor is more reflective than film is, you get reflections going back up and down the lense reflecting off the elements back to the sensor again.

Where as lenses designed for digital cameras have elements designed to reduce this reflection.

In saying this, previously I've been an advocate of using kit lenses for filming - as I've not been able to tell the difference, and usually lose out on image stabilisation etc.

However with raw on 50D, the difference between my Samyang 35mm and the kit lenses is like night and day. Good glass is finally worth while for video, rather than having the image put though a blender before ending up on the memory card.

62

General Chat / Bit rate - the new camera currency

« on: June 02, 2013, 04:09:02 AM »

When I was growing up as a kid, it was (comparatively) expensive for the average family to take photos...

People used to only take some pictures unless they were really sure that it would be worthwhile.
The average kid probably had maybe enough photos of them to barely fill an album, from birth to their 21st.

If you were at a beach, you'd only think about taking a photo of a sunset if there was a supermodel mud wrestling party going on, with dolphins jumping out of the water, and some biplanes having a dogfight over the ocean.

Now with no cost associated, you might see someone upload 500 completely rubbish photos of a party they went to, or 100 photos of a bland beach on an overcast day.

The removal of any cost has also removed the minimum quality requirement.

In some ways, the removal of 'cost' has affected video too - I can chuck 5-10 $10 8gb SD cards into a bag, some spare batteries and just film the hell out of anything in H264, because I can.
24fps, 30fps, 60fps, whatever I want for whatever reason (or not)

With the raw video, one thing that I think is really great... is that it's reintroduced a form of currency/cost back into the equation in a similar way that there was for film.

24fps isnt for the sake of artistic mimicry of a film camera - there's a very real reason in both on site shooting and post processing to stick with 24fps. If you want/need to go to 30fps or stretch to 60, you'll need a reasonable justification to offset the downsides of doing so, and will have put thought into why it's wanted/needed - same as if you were paying for each frame of film to be processed.

Since I've been playing around with raw video on 50D (where I've only got one 16gb memory card, and cant delete things on site) I've learnt to be a bit more frugal with which shots I am planning to take, on account of the above limitations.

I've noticed that I've put a little more thought into how a shot has been composed, because I really didnt want to waste what little space I had haha.

In the same way that Italians came up with a bunch of brilliant food because they only had tomatoes and pasta to work with - I'm looking forward to how the new found limitations of the medium of raw video helps shape the creative process into new directions.

There's always been a chip on peoples shoulder about trying to make things look 'filmic' (I hate this word) however now I hope things will branch away from this mindset with the new found creative control over the look and feel of shots which are now possible. There have been some reallly stellar looking test videos, I'm looking forward to seeing some raw video implemented into projects as it matures.

63

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: June 01, 2013, 04:24:54 PM »

Awesome stuff! Yep I'll put in some $$$ when you can confirm paypal etc.

I went out today and took some video @720p 30fps without issue... which is great, my TV only goes to 720p resolution so I've not got a burning desire for anything bigger than that, haha. 30fps is a lot more useful to me, so I was pretty happy it could do that without fuss.

I'm just processing all of the files in Lightroom now, but one thing I've noticed is it seems to be a bit of a mission getting the green/magenta balance on the white balance correct. All said and done though, it looks amazing!

Here's a frame from one of the shots, excuse the colours etc just a quick mash around to get something out the door:

http://iforce.co.nz/i/vduu0y4z.i3f.tif

Raw video or not I'm really happy with my 50D purchase...
Got it from a guy who'd babied it since new with 18k shutter actuations, guard on the screen, genuine canon battery grip, 4 batteries, and three (slow) memory cards for $509NZD (about $400 USD) Which is a crazy good deal for what you get.

64

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: May 31, 2013, 12:26:12 PM »

Hey regarding card speed etc on 50D, I've been having some inconsistent results since formatting the card initially.

With the 600D there were some settings I put the camera to, to eke out a bit more performance... I got it running bang on the 20-12mb/s limit.

However no matter what I've done so far with the 50D, I havent been able to get back to the combination of things which gave me  60-70mb/s.

I've tried: Setting camera to raw, sraw2, small jpg, large jpg (doesnt seem much difference to speed test)

global view on/off - meh.

But then, camera set to 30fps as per default - gave me 30-40mb/s

So I tried exposure override to 2fps, and got 50-60mb/s

Then back to 24fps, and getting somewhere in the middle.

Why would this be? And what settings do other people have, to acheive the 100mb/s read/write speeds if I'm getting non card related variance at such a lower speed? It seems reformatting either in camera, in windows, or aligning the partition dont make much difference now.

65

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: May 31, 2013, 04:35:30 AM »

Okay I just bought a Sandisk 90mb/s 16gb.

Ran an initial speed test in the 50D- 35-39mb/s

However after reformatting, following this guide:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/113967-ssd-alignment.html

It's now getting between 60-70mbs! Quite a remarkable difference just on account of formatting in a particular way.

Still not as good as 100mb/s or whatever from Komputerbay but I was impatient and this was the best I could get today haha.

66

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: May 31, 2013, 02:56:39 AM »

hmmm yeah I wouldnt commit to buying one just yet...

As best I know they basically are optimised for the 1080p resolution for standard video, if you recorded in 720p it doesnt quite work as intended.

Since we're not necessarily recording at a size/resolution/etc which is comparable to standard 1080p, it may come out strange.

It's annoying that they're such a niche item though, it's not as though you can just borrow one from your neighbour to test haha.

Although my understanding of how it works may be incorrect... I'd definitely just ask a lot of questions before committing $$$ to it though.

67

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: May 31, 2013, 02:44:49 AM »

That footage looks absolutely incredible!

I'm off to buy a CF card today... So just a question, what sort of bit rate does the 50D go up to, or how fast can it go in the read/write tests? Is it limited to 50mb/s or there abouts?

Will a 60mb/s card fare well enough?

Sandisc 90mb/s is about twice the price... Which I'm willing to buy if it makes a difference.

I ran a benchmark on the cards that came with the camera.... 6mb/s write speed hahaha. Not nearly using the camera to its potential, if using burst mode or whatever!

68

Tragic Lantern / Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video

« on: May 29, 2013, 01:25:08 PM »

Okay yep after a bit of playing around I've got mine recording at 20.5mb/s constant with no dropped frames. woot!

(Havent looked at the footage yet though)

So instructions are:

1. Download the latest nightly build onto a card, from here:
http://nanomad.magiclantern.fm/nightly/

2. Go to https://bitbucket.org/OtherOnePercent/tragic-lantern-2.0/downloads
and download the latest file - currently [600D] 800Fileman.zip as of 29th May.

3. Copy the contents onto the SD card root directory, then move the Modules and Scripts folders into the ML sub folder.

4. Put the SD card into your camera, and switch it on. In the Canon menu, set the video resolution to 640x480.

5. Press the trash can button to load Magic Lantern, and scroll across to the 5th menu, 'Shoot'

6. For Pic Quality select Sraw

8. Scroll right to the last menu Modules and select Load Modules now

9. Scroll back to the Movie menu and select FPS override and select 24fps.

10. Scroll down to raw video and click Set

11. Press Q to load the raw video sub menu - select 960x540 resolution (or whatever resolution suits your card speed)

12. Hacked mode - on

Now switch to movie mode on your camera, and press the record button to enable live view if necessary - then press record again to start recording a raw video. All going well, with the SRAW setting you should have three dots/stars for your buffer, instead of two.

If I've missed anything as per above, let me know!

69

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: May 29, 2013, 10:30:01 AM »

The default FPS is 30, because that's what liveview works at. (Because it never had video, it never had a need to specify anything else for this)

However you can just leave FPS override turned on and leave it at 24.

70

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: May 28, 2013, 12:31:43 PM »

Also another thing, unless someone who's actually got one can confirm to the contrary,

The 50D does HDMI out, as in, you can view pictures on the TV or whatever. As best I know it's not possible to use an external monitor in a configuration which would allow recording an HDMI stream from the sensor, either way.

71

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: May 28, 2013, 07:43:35 AM »

Because the HDMI output goes through all of the compression etc as a normal recorded video file, and is 8 bit.

Where as recording to the cf card is 14 bit raw images at a fairly hefty bitrate.

I'm about an hour away from owning a 50D with a battery grip and 4 batteries, only challenge now will be finding a place that sells fast CF cards for less than a billion dollars that ships to New Zealand.

72

Tragic Lantern / Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video

« on: May 27, 2013, 01:33:25 PM »

Been doing a little more testing.

If I have the hacked mode turned on, no skipped frames at 920x460

Hacked mode turned off, 5300 frames total and 43 skipped frames.

It doesnt skip a whole lot at once, it will skip about 1 in 120 or whatever.

So enough to be annoying haha.

writing at 16.7mb/s is about the best it can manage so far without issues.

If N/A or someone could elaborate as to exactly what they've done to acheive the higher resolutions, would be great
(How the card is formatted, etc... does this make a difference if exfat or not apart from file size limit?)

73

Tragic Lantern / Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video

« on: May 27, 2013, 07:16:42 AM »

Thought I'd jump on the bandwagon so bought a 95 mb/s $andisc card.

When in photo mode global draw on, I get read/write around the 20/21mbs mark.  Formatted to exfat, downloaded the latest files.

However if I put it in video mode, it drops to 17-19mb/s.

Is that expected?

Only manage about 63 frames before it goes kaput, at the resolution N/A was filming at.

74

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: May 26, 2013, 09:25:56 PM »

Yeah probably the simplest solution to synching it all together is having a cheap and nasty camera (like an early gopro or something) recording both sound and video at a very low bitrate, just for the sake of synching things with pluraleyes or whatever.

Pretty monsterous workflow compared to shooting normally with a different audio capable DSLR, but gotta pay to play!

I'm bidding on a 50D at the moment. In my mind it seems the best $$ option for raw video, and often when I've been shooting a time lapse or something I've been mega bored, so a second camera body will help keep me entertained. Nice burst rate too compared to my 600D.

75

Tragic Lantern / Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d

« on: May 26, 2013, 03:15:30 PM »

I think the 50D progress is by far the most interesting revelation so far about the raw video!

It's cool to not only see some life reinjected into something like the 50D, but have bloody amazing video out of it when it wasnt even meant to have it haha.