Messages

@kryzysord - when I first installed ML I opened the Modules tab and <SET> all modules to load on next open. Then I shut down my camera and turned it on again. All modules loaded without problems.

The Oct. 1 platform is very stable, and it is up-to-date.

ML has a rhytm built in. When you work your camera too fast, you seem to rush your ML - and your camera. Take a little time, take a breath. Look in the viewer, press the shutter button halfways and see the software work for you. Half-press the shutter. Read the numbers in bottom of the viewer and enjoy the wonderful picture, take another breath and press the shutter all the way. Love the camera.

Let's see a lot of fine pictures from you.

@irvcobb - Exactly why do you think that I see you as one of the guys taking the 600 to its very limits? You'll show us what it can do once you get your grips on ML.

@DeafEyeJedi - you're far too kind. You're all over the place, posting in several threads and providing people like me with tons of information. You're one of those paving the way, and following your tracks in the various threads makes us address and understand many important issues.

Trying to follow your lead has taught me a lot about my camera's basic functions, so that I have been better able to understand ML.

@DeafEyeJedi - "It's like fine wine... The longer it takes the better it taste..." I think you wrote something like this in a discussion of workflows. And we met in a discussion of audio recording...

Come to the dark side. When witchcraft works and magic lanterns glow, something wonderful is going to happen...

If I were irvcobb I'd be out of my mind for that fine cam he has. One of the singular Canons with built-in movie crop...! Am I envious or not? With ML he's going to skyrocket. Oh, sorry irvcobb, I know you're there, just didn't see you; high five and good luck, and let's see what you come up with. And - oh, my ML/700d also has movie crop, thanks to our fine devs. The 600d gave them the idea.

Walter - sorry for being a little out of topic

Nightly builds are for us budding teenage kids who play in the dark, totally aware of our own inadequaties and flaws - it's like holding your first love in the hand and dreaming of an adulthood so far away... we hold our breath while exploring what is actually possible to do... with the beautiful girl and the equally beautiful pictures and footage our cam is capable of, and we dream far beyond what is physically possible... HDR, Raw... her smile, her hair, backlit, do I open the flash... Ahh no, open the diaphragm a bit...

ML is what dreams are made of, not some consumer level kind of spaghetti bolognese...

ML expands what you can do with your camera. You really start exploiting ML when you have fully exploited the in-camera options. When you know your cam by heart.

People who buy a camera and install ML right away are in for a very tough lesson. For every available option the cam has, you can multiply with a factor 2 or 3 as soon as you open the ML menu. You are kids, and you're living your childhood with the best toy ever invented: the camera. Walk through the basics. Try a new lens or two. Experiment with portraying the sweetest girl in the world - the one from paragraf 1. A consumer cam has an option for HDR, but if you teach yourself AEB or even manual AE, the result is so much more rewarding. Her eyes, so dark and mysterious in a cascade of off-focus hair... That's what photo is about.

Learn the basics with the camera that has most appeal to you. If it's a Canon, count yourself lucky that in this world we have people like... Ahh no names, but you'all know who I mean. If you are a beginner in photo, learn your camera. If you know your camera inside-out, come and enjoy the tremendous work other outstandingly good photographers - and programmers - have done: ML.

And if you're a beginner, photo is like meeting the worlds most beautiful girl, catching her eye and exchange phone numbers... you hold your breath, for the world is spinning around you, and the NOW is bigger than life... With ML you're practically holding her hands and looking in her eyes and seeing a universe of a future..

Let us never forget why we became photographers in the first place.

What I wanted to say to irvcobb: If the ML/600d hasn't changed from April 9, maybe it's because it works. That's a testimony to the quality those dev deliver: No complaints in 5 months.

Excellent. What's the music? All too often we forget to tell about our musical choices.

Hi - maybe my approach to documenting nightlies is totally insane. But...
I have photographed all ML menus on my T5i/700d with submenues ect, and I am now stealing/borrowing/hijacking info from the comparison chart, from this thread and from what I can sniff out from all the other threads in the ML Universe.
I think, that MLs for most Rebels look pretty much alike, even though the innards may differ, so that the old User Guide for the 2.3 still is good for M5/6/7/50/60 - and the new 70 actually is more Rebel than M5, if you get my drift. So this type of ducumentation might cover several cams.
ML is such a beautiful piece of software, that it deserves a real booklet with lots of illustrations, hints, tips and ideas.
Am I right or what!!!?

Hi, SwaroopB -

ML seems to stem from a bunch of very fine people - A1ex for his good, sincere and honest advice (and I'm sure he'll see this thread and react as soon as he gets a chance), Walter who keeps me in stitches with his dry humor, and he's always spot on!... I could go on. Fine people, all of you devs, testers and users. Welcome SwaroopB.

I got my T6s this summer as a supplement to my T5i (with ML), but after reading Felipe's assessment of T6s
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=14866.msg144180#msg144180
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=14866.msg149458#msg149458
I had sort of given up on the T6s. Logic dictates, that the devs work only on cameras, that can deliver the output, that makes ML worthwhile. And T6s  has the same issues with audio as it's predecessors.

I'm - slowly - working on a documentation of ML/T5i (and probably the rest of the Rebel series; they seem to mostly look alike but differ somewhat from 5d/6d/7d/50/60 etc. Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Documenting ML/T6s is going to be interesting.

Good luck. Understanding the innards of a modern camera and getting it to work with some terrific and magic software must be totally fascinating.

I haven't heard anyone from Canon express disrespect of ML. In Denmark the cam vendors I have met feel, that ML helps them sell more cams.

@Kharak - I work alone most of the time, and I'd like a boom operator as much as you. But...

Røde is top of the line. It's a good workhorse on top of your cam, and there are lots and lots of shots, where the Røde makes a difference even sitting on the cam. But you're right - the sound may improve, if it is fed into a separate recorder. Tascam, Zoom, Olympus, Sony and many other companies have them. Mine is a $100 model from Sony. It is five years old but it works fine. 20 years ago I used MiniDisc - clever concept, but lack of backing. It was the first syncable recorder (audio tape stretches).

More and more companies have cardioids/supercardioids and even shotgun mikes with built-in recording - Shure VP83F or VMIC Recorder from Sanamonic come to mind. Then again I'd rather stick to the Røde and buy a cheap dictaphone recorder - after all their software usually lets you record 10-20Hz - 16Khz frequence in 16bit 48MHz quality. That's better than CD quality

I'm on a tight budget, so my rig is totally improvised. But I have made documentaries all over Europe with my primitive gear. And I work alone most of the time.

It takes more time; you must prepare everything in details, and much of the time you'll have to compromise.

A small, cheap recorder with a small lapel mike can work wonders, when you're far away from modern facilities. You'll have to do a lot of clean-up afterwards in whatever audio software you use. You must consider new ways to get sync. If your cam is more than 40-50 feet away from the sound source and the main microphone/recorder, the speed of sound alone can make syncing difficult. I use a small flash light - the mike hears the click, and the cam sees the light. Voila - sync!

I teach AV, so I prepared a few photos to give you an idea of how totally crazy I am. I can only say: These odd-looking rigs have worked for me in France, Sicily Sweden, my native country Denmark, and in January I'm going to Canada to get some good footage in the Rockies. If anything here can inspire others, I'll be very happy.

Mit ein Canon Einsteiger-camera...? Erstaunlich. Faszinierend. Die Jungs (und Mädels) die ML entwickeln haben, können sehr stolz sein. Und wir anderen sind stolz, dass einer von uns mit rudimentäre Werkzeugen so ein Bild hervorstellen kan.

Whenever we talk about 600d, 650d... - all newer Canon cameras have built-in microphones, and I know from experience, that they work very well UNDER IDEAL CONDITIONS.But what are we to do, if the conditions are less than ideal? There's no jack-out for headset...

There are many threads dealing with HDR/RAW and the cam's ability to shoot H264 or even RAW and 4.2.2 compression. Hooray... And I mean it. It's a fantastic thrill to see the footage, we're able to create. My 700d is a gem. With ML onboard it's a wonderful little movie machine. And you lucky guys with 5dIII... are even better off.

BUT... More than several hundred complaints about the "missing audio-link" make me feel, that many ML users are not quite familiar with the concept, that audio is 80% of a movie. Why do they request headset monitoring of an audio input device (the built-in mikes), when we all know, that external audio recording is necessary almost all the time. Juicedlink, Saramonic, Zoom and many other manufacturers of audio equipment thrive on an increasing demand for better sound.

Just not the RAWoholics (and I mean this with lots of love, being a vidiot myself). They seemingly don't know where sound comes from.

OK - a large number of beautiful footage is uploaded to ML with equally beautiful music. But for a true movie nerd like myself, real on-the-scene audio is just as important as beautiful images.

That's why I propose to start this new thread: Tell us about your audio problems and how you solved them. I think, that  Walter Schultz has written a billion posts about the reasons for not developing ML/audio for the 600d and newer. Let's get all this discussion over here, so frustrated audio posts aren't spread all over the ML forums.

@Nautilus - with all due respect: sound and picture come from the same place. Whereas the picture can be zoomed in, so the camera appears closer to the scene than it actually is, the sound cannot be zoomed. Put the mike where the picture is created, and record the sound externally. I wrote a post in the EOS 700D thread a few weeks ago with a picture of my own $100 setup
Felipe is quite right when he proposes the use of a preamp with headset jack. There are several brands to chose from and many less pricey than juicedlinks.

Hi again - I bought a 760d recently, and I love it. BUT... I'll never leave my 700d at home. With ML it's an outstandingly good workhorse, and with my VH4 Viewfinder it's a jewel to work with.
I use my 760 for an enormous lot of photography, HDR, street phot, portraits, you name it. But video work is always done on the 700d. If I'd need a #2 cam with ML, I'd go for a 70d. It has almost the same features as the 760, but Canon didn't tamper with the bitrate - and we have a perfectly good ML for it.
Rewriting ML to suit the 760 would be a nice passtime, but since the camera obviously is a bit downgraded on the video side, one would fare better with the 70d. As I said, I love the 760d, but I'm very realistic about what it can and what it can't do.
And to be honest... I have used it as my b-cam, using Canon's own video settings. For quick-and-dirty jobs it's actually quite okay. Maybe Canon stepped the 760d a little bit down to allow room for the 70d?
My advice to budding vidiots like myself is to consult the ML forums before buying a new cam.

BTW - I have several SD-cards with ML. When I change settings, the changes are - of course - only stored on the card, I currently use. So in order to copy the settings to my other cards, I place the "changed" SD-card in my card-viewer, open the ML folder and copy the SETTINGS folder to my computer. Then I copy this folder to the right folder in all the other SD cards. This way I make sure, that my settings are the same, no matter which card I use. Piece of cake.

I got the idea, that you'd want a picture of my "sound system" setup, so...

Dear lorenmstuber and all you out there wanting to monitor audio on your Canon jewels...
Recording sound with the built-in mics is very rarely an option, only usable in very controlled acoustic environments. I did it once in Sicily, where the conditions were prime-class-A-super-deluxe.
A much more safe approach is to record the sound with an external mic such as the MyMyk or the various models from Zoom – there are many equally excellent options from many manufacturers out there,
For simple sound recordings I use a Sony IC Recorder ICD-UX71 with a good headset – and connect its headset-out to the camera mic-in. This little setup works without a flaw – and it cost me less than $100:
Sony ICD/Headset-Out > Canon 700d Mic-In via 3.5mm jack splitter (2xfemale > 1 male).
Sony ICD/Headset-Out > Headset via 3.5mm jack splitter (2xfemale > 1 male).
Sony ICD/Mic-In > Any microphone with 3.5mm jack, here with 12 feet of cable.
The shotgun mic may be fixed to the camera with the Sony ICD/Headset combo, and – voila – we're recording monitored audio! The Sony ICD records the sound at the same time as the camera, but (normally) with higher fidelity, and the recorded sound may be post processed in any audio editor. During the recording, ml's audiometer works as an extra means of control. The camera-recorded sound may serve as a sync.
A lot of us indie-video-nerds are on a budget – that's why so many of us are interested in constructing sort-of an "audio out" on our 700d (650d, 70d etc.) But sound is 80% or even more of the video or movie experience, so... please NO SHORTCUTS HERE. Even my little experimental setup works lots better than the built-in mic whenever the acoustics are less than ideal.
I have been sitting on my hands since Sep 9, when you posted your question, waiting for a reply from the real experts, the hardcore ml users. Many posts in this and other threads confirm my point of view.
- https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/325/2221
- http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52328221
- http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eos-crop-sensor-hd/488735-whats-best-way-monitor-audio.html
And even with more pro cameras like the 5dIII the built-in mic doesn't always deliver the optimal sound. Why? Because the built-in mics are never at the exact spot, where the sound is made. You may zoom in on a situation with your lens, but there is no way to zoom in the sound with the built-in mic – if you "zoom" (amplify) the sound - turn up the gain - you amplify background noise as well. Unprofessional!
Ml is in fact very helpful when recording sound with (the built-in mic, RARELY), or an external (shotgun mic, a wireless or a cabled) close-up mic placed right where the sound is created. When recording your video you have two sound bars on top of the lv screen, and with a little bit of exercise you are in fact able to monitor the sound. Using something like my little setup just makes the task easier.
But let's try with an example: You're at a family function, and Uncle Bill is holding a speech. Put the external (wireless or cabled) mic right in front of him. Or put a small dictaphone like my Sony in his breast pocket. Third option (and third quality) is a shotgun mic on the camera held as close to Uncle Bill as possible to avoid the clatter from the silverware or the burping of the quests. The last and worst option is the built-in mic. If you can place the camera 2 or 3 feet away from Uncle Bill you may get an acceptable recording. With the camera further away the sound deteriorates with the distance squared.
I got my first camera (Nikkormat FT) in 1966, became a photo journalist 1981, was an international radio reporter 1994-2004 and a film producer with DR, the largest Danish radio/tv broadcasting organization 2004-6. Today I teach photo and cinematography. When I compare the equipment we had back in '04-'06 with Canon's excellent cameras combined with ml, we have certainly come a far way. Please - don't make a mockery out of present-day video production by making crappy sound.

[generally]

emmettfitz - 700d has some audio control built in. You are able to set audio recording levels (see Canon User Guide p.198) but there is no audio jack for monitoring audio while recording. For an old rat like myself with 20+ years of experience with audio recording and TV production, the audio-recording meter ML displays on top of the display is by far good enough - and I record all important sound on a separate audio recorder as well (or use wireless mics/ext.mic jack on the camera). While recording you can't change recording levels anyway, so you'll have to do a few test shots and adjust audio accordingly. As I wrote in post above, the quality of sound from built-in mics is astoundlingly good under the right conditions.
Optimal sound control requires an audio mixer - there are several that fit in the hotshoe - that accepts separate or wireless mics. Nevertheless, separate audio recording and then using camera sound for sync is generally the best solution - and that goes for all cameras in the world.
Play with the camera - that's what it's made for. With or without ML it'll outperform many other cameras, if you have an intimate knowledge of its functions. An old journalist and editor such as myself is happy for ML - it resolves a truckload of issues.

Circuitbrkr - I use my t5i extensively for movie making (NOT documentaries or ENG!) and sound is critical to me. Last autumn I was in Sicily, recording a local brass band for a few hours. I used an external microphone with a memory card - and I used the built-in mikes for sync. In the end I used the sound from the built-in mikes. It was crisp, naturally beautiful. I have never had so much good sound from camera mikes before. You'll have to rehearse sound rendition - acoustics in your environment may be disastrous, and then you use your external mike and post-process the sound in Audition, Sound Booth, Audacity or whatever you use. Train with your gear. Don't be sloppy. Rehearse over and over. Camera work isn't to be taken lightly; after all it is a profession which demands a long education. Learn to know your camera by heart, before you install ml. One step at a time. You'll not want 100 new functions until you have a grasp of the original Canon software. And PLEASE consider Canon's 10-22 f3,5 wide ange for larger forums instead of a narrow-eyed 50mm (80mm in reality - your chip is aps-c!) whis is a fantastic lens for portraits but rather hard to keep focused at f1.4 (unless you have ml, of course, whose follow-focus is formidable.) The wide angle lens also brings your camera much closer to the action, which improves the sound considerably. In ml you are able to monitor sound via two sound bars on top of the screen - and it works very well in combination with Canon's built-in mike adjustment system.
I spent a long time using my beloved t5i, before I installed the ml. My girlfriend uses the camere almost as much as I do, and she's completely in love with ml.
Remember the recording times: ~29 minutes for each movie file. Use natural breaks in the show, you're capturing, stop and restart the camera - at the same time checking space and battery left. Don't ever leave the camera unattended.
Good luck and the harder you work, the more you'll appreciate the results.

Hi - being a newbie I certainly do recommend, that whitep reads the 700d thread in its entirety. It's a tale of research, BW-Engineering, intimate knowledge of what users need and want from their camera. There's nothing to be afraid of - you'd have to be some kind of a Disaster Expert to brick your camera, if you follow the very simple instructions given with the nightlies. It is really very simple. But ML is a veritable smorgasboard of elegant and genious solutions for both stills and movie. ML is an expansion of my mind when shooting footage, using the follow focus, checking focus, monitoring audio input etc. etc.
The software sitting beside the ML-folder in the package only changes a flag in the camera software to allow it to check for 3rd-party firmware. If at some later date you'd like to remove all traces of ML in the camera, then just re-install FW 113 - links are found elsewhere in the 700d-thread. But -  trust me - you'd never want to do that, once you have acquainted yourself with ML. I simply love it.
axelcine