Messages

When he signs with a beer bottle in his hand is that like talking with your mouth full?

I've always wanted to learn sign, I'm assuming that's American Sign Language though, it always seems very one handed.
AUSLAN and BANZSL likes to incorporate both the hands for everything including the alphabet.

I think the biggest thing to figure out right now is how much manipulation is possible using the picture styles, and whether the base picture style (ie Landscape) can be negated somehow so that we can effectively apply curves directly to the raw data.

I though the base picture style is neutral.

But also, is this still all done on top of canons film curve, or is that actually hidden away in the picture style?

I shot a friend of mine doing some live music and as usual ML the firmware that never leaves my camera aided quite a bit.
Shot on a 550D with the 50mm 1.8, plus a rode stereo video mic for audio.
I shot on the 1.8 because it was quite dark and I wanted to keep my ISO as low as possible.
I also shot at 24p (23.9 whatever) in an attempt to get longer exposure times to keep the ISO low.
As I was running around a bit I decided to keep the ISO on automatic to save me some set up time,
this worked out fine, the brightness barely fluctuates.
I used ML to aide in white balancing, which was basically impossible as there was a big orange light as the spotlight as the venue is going under some change.
I also used ML for focus peaking, which there did end up some out of focus shots as I used extra test shots which I was still focusing in.
Then I also used ML for the general extra settings, no audio auto gain for the external mic, zero sharpness, a couple of other settings.
I edited this in cinelerra and did some heavy colour grading as the footage just looked orange, so I dipped the shadows into the green.

The main intention was to record that first song, but I got footage of this nice harmonica solo so I blended it together with another shot and quite like it.

Doesn't that already exist in the form of the DSLR controller app? I think this has the functionality you're looking for. I use it for monitoring video on the 550d and it works fine with magic lantern as well.

I have no idea what you are linking to.

Perhaps a wifi-enabled SD card can meet your needs; you cannot "send" files from the camera, however: the external device has to "grab" them from the card instead.

Obviously the camera cannot send the files. As I explained an example of a set-up.

Does anybody have any ideas for sending a selected image from my camera (550D in this case) to my android phone?

I can think of some sort of external rig using a small computer and bluetooth, I'd have to power it with something and probably have it have its own interface to be able to select which image I want to send. Although I have seen things set up through USB that can control options in the camera, and in turn the options in the camera can control the USB, so maybe a small script of module could be written to control the computer, an extra send button or the like.

Anybody have any other ideas? Less is more although if you have some elaborate rube goldberg like electronic set up do share.

Canon cameras have their own OS, I think it's called DryOS, Olympus is likely to have their own.
You're best of searching google for: *camerabrand* hacked firmware
or: *cameramodel* hacked firmware
In this case: Olympus hacked firmware; returns results like http://lightsnowdev.blogspot.com.au/ among others
Magic Lantern kind of spawned of CHDK http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK
You may find more info there about hacking into cameras in the dev section or forums.
A few cameras brand model lines has their own hacked firmware, nikon DSLRs have one, I think theres one for Sonys.

Enjoy the noise

The noise is much enjoyed.


Thank-you to everyone for helping.
I have received these a lot faster than what I expected
So I am a little behind in my tests in comparison.

I don't need anymore cameras, however if the 1200 or 650 comes along that would be good.

http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/TagNames/Canon.html#PictureStyle
http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/TagNames/Canon.html#PSInfo
Looks like we have some "0x" Values in the tags here , may be useful

Just came across this a couple weeks back.
This is the EXIF data in the CR2 files, however the "Canon PictureStyle Values" does make me wonder if those extra ones are available in cameras that don't have them.

I'm still working on my little project to do with this thread which I have to finish before I can get back into looking at the stuff in the camera itself.

They are raw only from either a LV frame (single frame captured basically the same as raw video) or FRSP, a full resolution capture of the sensor without any mechanical shutter actuation. Using the DNG format (chdk-dng) will save a single preview IFD. It is generated manually, not using Canon routines and is probably slightly different than either of the CR2 ones. The new DNG library I wrote (ml_dng branch, still not merged) does not generate a preview IFD. You can also capture silent pics in MLV format, in which case there is no preview. AFAIK, we don't know how to get Canon firmware to generate a CR2 for us from some arbitrary raw buffer that we control (I could be wrong or it might be pretty easy to figure out).

Ah! Thanks for the extra info.

And I guess for that last sentence; generating a CR2 from arbitrary raw data, and the CR2s being compressed in a lossless jpeg, would be a nice finding.

Thanks for the info and links.

I believe most of them are created from the full-size raw buffer (what ends up in a full-res silent picture). Writing to this buffer at the right moment (after CCDWriteEDmacCompleteCBR, or just before scsFinalReadoutDone) will alter the JPEG preview, and probably the RGB image as well.

Just one question as I actually haven't used silent pics before, are silent pics just jpeg or can they be raw as well. If they can be shot in raw do they store those two preview images as well (and correctly)?

According to http://lclevy.free.fr/cr2/#wb
The second IFD is containing a small RGB version (160x120 pixels) of the picture compressed in Jpeg.
The third IFD is containing a small RGB version of the picture NOT compressed (even with compression==6) and one which no white balance correction has been applied.
The fourth IFD is containing the RAW data compressed in lossless Jpeg. The RAW offset field in the CR2 header is pointing to the beginning of this IFD.

Edit:
There is also the first one which is
The first IFD is containing a small RGB version of the picture (one fourth the size) compressed in Jpeg, the EXIF part and the Makernote part.

Is there anything known about the two other images contained in the CR2/TIFF files? (Obviously not about their existence).
In the sense that, there is the 160x120 jpeg followed by the bigger RGB image that has no white balance applied, all this before the actual RAW image.
Is anything known about how they are made? Is one able to just get a stream of either of these images either with or without moving the shutter?

thanks thanks thanks thanks

I assume it,s something to be used around ML stuff?
Here are CR2 files for three cams. I,ll remove the files as soon as you downloaded them.

Yes and thankyou!
I got them.

7D & 70D

Thankyou too! You may have to tell me which is which.

You mean a CR2 still image like what Danne posted? Don't need EOSM, 100D or anything else that isn't on your list?
Don't know why you want the .RAW extension on a CR2 file but here's one for the 700D

Any camera, I just wrote a few from memory. I don't need all though I'm just trying to get a wide selection.
And I meant .cr2 rather than .raw, for example what Danne did: EOS_1100D.CR2
But that's alright, I can rename it. It was just to avoid confusion as to which is which.

Hoping some people can help me out with some raw images.
I need raw straight out of the camera and if you can follow these requirements:
- leave the lens cap on
- ML turned off (or its features switched off)
- shoot in M mode
- have a lens on (any lens)
- iso 200
- shutter 1/100
- aperture 4.0
- colour neutral
- WB sun
- RAW image capture
These don't matter it's just so I can have consistent info in the raw files between the cameras.
Yes it is meant to be a black image.

If you can upload them to a dropbox or google drive and I'll download it.
I'll list some cameras here, then I'll write next to the camera model who uploaded it to show that it has been done and also to show that I have downloaded the file if you then want to remove it.
If the camera is not on the list you can still take the photo and say which one it is, I'm still interested in collecting it.
In the file name, if you can change it to the camera model .CR2 (or whatever extension is on it).

5D mkIII	budafilms
5D mkII	Ilia3101
7D	Danne & DeafEyeJedi & Ottoga
6D	Sapporo
70D	DeafEyeJedi
60D	larrycafe
50D	halbmoki
700D	dfort
650D	Walter Schulz
600D	escho
550D	ItsMeLenny (I own this camera)
500D	Danne
100D	canneloni
1200D	122czx
1100D	Danne
EOSM	dfort

If it's already up here I don't particularly need a second one, but thankyou for helping.

Thanks for your help.

BTW, firmware 1.1.0 released for 550d.

Oh snap, I stopped checking long ago because I thought they'd basically abandoned it.

In saying that, I wouldn't think ML is compatible with it straight up.

ML doesn't really have any objectives as such, just whatever people are working on, the main devs usually focus on features they want.
Yes there is a lot going on with RAW. Cinestyle being good is subjective, but there is a thread going on about reverse engineering picture styles to be able to get something good going for h264.

10bit for h264 probably won't be looked at, along with mostly anything to do with h264. This is because there is a dedicated chip in the camera that creates the h264 and nothing is known about it. RAW recording is all done through the main CPU functions. If the h264 chip can be reverse engineered I'm sure it can be used for many things, particularly compression and particularly adding other h264 options (depending what the chip allows). But nothing is going to happen with it as it's basically a locked down black box in the camera.

Honestly I'm not the one to call this, but I feel as if this is getting slightly off topic, maybe a new thread should be started for comparisons of picture styles.
On top of that, I guess what's valuable, at least in this thread, is how the picture styles are made, not how they compare visually. It would be valuable if there were two very visually similar picture styles but one did something worse (had bad banding or something) and that was a result of how the picture style is put together under the hood.

In terms of comparing picture styles, I'm just assuming here that you're going to take a photo in each picture style. Even if all settings are kept the same I don't think this is the best or easiest way to go about it. All you'd need to do is take one photo in RAW and then put it into canons DPP software (digital photo professional) and apply the different picture styles.

In saying that it's still a visual comparison (which I guess what the photo looks like at the end of the day is what counts). A better process would be to generate a CR2 image that can fake itself as being taken with a canon that has linear gradients of 0% to 100% black to white and red green blue channels, feed this into DPP and see what the curves actually are, which would also allow finding the canon film curve, also the difference in colours between neutral faithful etc. In addition to faking these raw images to have them look as though they come from different canon models, which would allow to see if the curves do change between camera sensors (assuming this is all in the software, which I'm going to assume it is, if it exists in the first place).

I will actually make one of these CR2 images, hopefully this weekend, which it is the weekend already. Anybody who would like a copy it will only cost $12.99

I apologize if I came off strong I just was surprised Visiontech hasn't been discussed, like if there was something people know that I don't about it. I didn't mean to deviate the discussion, sorry.

I don't read emotion on peoples posts because it's impossible to tell, I just read what is said, that is also how my posts should be read, emotionless because there is noway to convey emotion unless you want to put it in brackets after every statement (thought invoking ). Also I was typing on my phone so it may have read more abrupt than usual.

If you have a picture style that you like it would be great if you could open it up and see how it works and what makes it different from another picture style that doesn't quite do it for you. Unfortunately the people making these custom picture styles seem to be hiding something. We're not hiding anything here.

This x 3 for each statement.

@ItsMeLenny -- thanks so much for those links. We're building up quite a reference library on this topic.

Yeah there's other posts from years ago that have already tried to explore this (I think I started at least 3). But I think those are all the relevant links.

I ultimately think a module could be made that can adjust the various curves inside the picture styles and write it to the camera from the camera, so long as those registers are safe to write to.
Back to the canon film curve that I'm always complaining about, whether that is somewhere in the registers as well and being mistaken as the register that is unsafe to write to, as the registers are unknown and partly undocumented for picture styles.
It'd be great to somehow pass half of the processing rather than equalizing it out, say if that film curve is somewhere in the pipeline if that step can just be jumped.


Now, this is another theory which I have not tested, but! I am unsure if the camera utility that uploads the picture styles detects what camera it is and writes it accordingly, if it applies extra modifications between cameras for the different sensors between cameras. So the picture styles are universal in the picture style format, but if you were to compare them on the cameras if, say for instance, one of the colour channels has a slight different curve applied to it to accommodate for that sensor. If that all makes sense.

Hey ItsMeLenny,
    Just curious, is there a reason Visiontech isn't mentioned as a noteable picture style?

Because I've never heard of it and never used it. I haven't looked at picture styles for a long time, I shoot photos on neutral and video on videoX.
I'm not any kind of superior in terns of picture styles so anybody is welcome to mention their own notable picture styles. However probably not in this topic unless its mentioned along with what the topic is about.
I'll have a brief look at it when I get the time. I was just mentioning a few that attempt to get the most out of an image without being some kind of gimmick, as in one that changes colour or desaturates things or what not.

Another post of mine http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=10008 "Where is that long list of registers?" All of them are linked, probably most importantly though this one: http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Register_Map/Brute_Force/C0F0Fxxx -- "C0F0Fxxx - picture style parameters maybe"

Rest of the links thanks to audionut at the time:
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/ADTG
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Register_Map
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Memory_map
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Register_Map/Brute_Force
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Register_Map/550D


Also: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=4830 "Contrast and picture styles, the real scoop"

So I spent a long time trying to find the quote of it being bad to write to, going back through all my past posts, here it is: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3896.msg21124#msg21124
From a user named "Francis":  Not possible. Picture styles are stored in a part of memory that is very dangerous to write to.


One of the first things I noticed when I got my camera was the awful canon curve, which between that and the rolling shutter actually made me regret buying it to an extent, I started shooting neutral straight away, but it still doesn't get rid of their "film style" curve.

There is a huge amount of user made picture styles, however I believe the majority of them are made in the picture style editor, as a result they don't interest me so much.

Noteable picture styles are probably, Video-x from canon, technicolors cinestyle, marvels cinestyle, and flaat (which has multiple versions of dynamic range).

Did I kill this conversation? Has anyone had any further progress?

As far as I can tell 10 bit was recording on the 550D, unsure how to play it back.
I was under the impression that it would result in a significantly lower bitrate, to the extent where I would be able to record full resolution @25fps, which it would only record half a second. Was that somebodies incorrect calculations in the past? (or am I thinking of 8bit).