Messages

Sounds very nice.

Can you post a graph of the response curve? You may use this binary: http://groups.google.com/group/ml-devel/browse_thread/thread/3cad525f7ddec118

but you might have to downgrade to 1.0.1. It shouldn't be any problem, as 2.3 should recognize both firmware versions, in theory (they are identical for ML's point of view, just the checksum differs).

Hi Alex, yes I'll post a curve asap but obviously remove the nodes. Damn fiddly and time consuming to adjust. I must have made over 100 revisions to get to this point 

Hoping to find a developer who can create a 3rd party PS editor at some point depending on the legalities of that.

I'll check out the new bin. Thanks

Hi guys,

I've been working for a couple of months developing a new log picture style and Luts. With the tonality of Neutral and similar to Technicolor's Cinestyle PS it brings a little more highlight detail into play when grading.

Super Neutral Log PS will be available soon FREE

You can check out something I shot using the PS and 1%'s GOP/ALL-I build of ML for the 600d here:

https://vimeo.com/groups/superneutral/videos/49436519

There is also a couple of links in the comments to download some before/after shots from the movie footage (video stills) and some JPEG comparisons with Cinestyle taken from some RAW images processed in Canon's DPP (note: these are NOT stills from video).

Andy

Shot some of this using GOP3 and ALL-I https://vimeo.com/groups/superneutral/videos/49436519 (Vimeo compression sucks)

Is anyone else having a problem getting GoPro Cineform Studio (free version) to work with 1080p files?

I have it working perfectly on an old laptop running XP but it just crashes if I try to open a 1080p file on my desktop system (i7-3700k running Windows 7 64bit). It seems to be a resolution issue with Canon H.264 because 720p files open fine and I have some old Nikon 1080p's that open ok too.

I've tried everything I can think of and even contacted GoPro but they won't even acknowledge my problem. I can of course still work with the laptop but it's very slow.

I have also tried to convert with other converters like Mpeg Streamclip but I get a 'license expired' error for the Cineform codec.

Jason - If you look at the .mov in Bitrate viewer you can see exactly where on the timeline the bitrate drops and then pixel peep the video

Jason ATL - If you change the deblocking filter to 0/0 the macro blocking should reduce. I'm experimenting with -1/-1 ATM which seems to give a slight increase in the perception of sharpness/detail and add a little fine grain. I think it's more of an aesthetic thing.

Andy600, a quick look at your LOG PS stills, they look good, apart from no sky detail, but assume that was an exposure choice. Looking forward to hearing more about your PS and seeing some more.

What NLE and LUT format?

Thanks The shot with no sky detail was facing the sun with no ND on the lens and not really any cloud detail to see anyway. Not the easiest thing to shoot and not really a good example of the PS. There is actually more highlight detail recovered with this LOG PS than Cinestyle in my tests and without the ugly artifacts of something like Cineplus Lightform PS. I made the basic LUT using LutBuddy in After Effects CS6 and saved it as a cube file but I'll be able to provide others. It's still a little too saturated but hey it's only a LUT.

Anyway, I'll keep this topic free of any more PS talk and let you know more info in another topic when there's something to see. It's just that I was testing it at the same time as 1%'s GOP build so made sense to mention it when I show test shots.

I've only tried GOP3 and ALL-I so far. ALL-I seems better for moving images while a GOP3 setting has better detail for static shots (I think that was to be expected anyway). I've uploaded a bunch of frame grabs from the footage I shot yesterday both ungraded and with a basic LUT applied to my LOG PS (I'm doing the real grade today). These shots were from shooting ALL-I.  http://wtrns.fr/LYPZI3ca2c1fkAj

FilmMan - That 3 second clip you have was part of a huge file. I'm not sure how to trim it to keep the bit rate etc identical and I'm on a pretty slow internet connection. I will upload some untouched files that I shot yesterday once I've finished the grade and edit for my LOG PS demo movie

Just back from shooting my girlfriend (haha) doing a spot of microlight flying. Shot with GOP3 and ALL-I and I can tell even looking at the ungraded footage that it's really good I also shot as a test for my new PS. I'll try to grade and edit it tonight and I'll point out what shots were GOP or ALL-I when I upload it. I didn't have any issues with buffer overloads. The only issue was the first shot of her actual take-off because I wasn't set up properly so the WB and exposure isn't correct but I'll try to fix that or she'll kill me 

TBH I'm more and more excited by the possibilities. 1% has done a great job! This isn't the first time I've shot at the airfield but it's certainly the best looking footage I've captured.

The noise/grain is definitely caused by the deblocking filter. I looked more closely at what I shot yesterday and there is slight blockiness in certain parts of the shots using ALL-I (deblocking filter set -2/-1). It's actually given me a much better understanding of what it does and how it affects appearance.

I shot a little test today between ALL-I and GOP 3 with the deblock filter at 0/0. There's not much in it quality-wise but GOP3 does help slightly with detail, especially grass.

I've upload a couple of seconds of ALL-I and GOP 3 here http://wtrns.fr/GwDyNV-M4di4gHQ Can you see any difference? The grass (lower left of the frame) looks a bit better to me on the GOP3 shot. Both shots were using the 600d 1080p/24p on a Nikon 50mm 1.8d at 3x sensor crop using my own LOG PS with LUT and a little luma sharpening applied. More news on the PS soon

I'm shooting at an airfield this afternoon which should be a much better test with subjects actually moving. Only got a 16gb card though 

Andy600 and 1%,

I'd be willing to test.  I have a 5D2 and some top prime lenses.  I have the current ML installed.  Upping the bitrate (with current build), there is a slight quality difference especially with aiding in color grading.  I usually only attain 48 and peak out maybe if I'm lucky at 70 or so.

I'm not sure if your current testing files will work the the 5D2.  Achieving 100 mbps and with more stability has definitely caught my interest.  Let me know.  I'd like to help if possible.   I appreciate your efforts.  Cheers.

I think this is only for the 600d at the moment 

I set the deblocking filter settings to -2 & -1 after reading an article about best quality but can't remember where I read it. It looks better than off for sure and the noise is similar to the grain I've seen on the C300. It's not ugly.

I can't notice any serious dip in quality when q drops but it only dropped when I panned so as you say, some moving car shots should highlight any issues.

If this is the best we can hope for I think it's not too bad at all. I need to get another card and load up the default ML so I can A/B the same shots but I'm sure there is an improvement (there must be if I can notice it LOL)

[think]

V2, quicker polling (1/2 sec). Instant BR is only 1/2 of actual but now average stays around 100 in gop3 at 50% buffer warning.

https://bitbucket.org/OtherOnePercent/tragic-lantern/downloads/autoexec.bin.600D.Exfat.QuickPollingAutoSlice

This is looking promising 1%

I shot some trees, grass and parked cars for a few mins using ALL-I. Bit rate was around 75-130mbps (q was mainly around 10 but hit 22 according to AVInaptic) with buffer warning set on 50% (that came on a few times but kept recording fine).

I can't quite put my finger on it but I think there is an improvement in over all detail. There is a very slight increase in noise at low ISO's using ALL-I but it's very fine grain and actually looks quite nice to my eyes. I'm testing it with a new LOG PS that I'm developing and it's looking great.

I need to shoot some fast moving stuff but it's getting dark here. Might try some night shots.

1% - random question - do you think frame size can be increased at a lower bit rate?

I ran lots of tests but I cant see any difference other than bitrate and GOP increase/decrease. The settings were definitely taking effect but no difference in the end results...so far 

I'm thinking we need some kind of repeatable test, something always moving but can be filmed on a locked off tripod. Water from a tap?

Yes I found the same thing.

Have you noticed that at default settings GOP is dynamically set. Moving onto high detail drops GOP to 2 or even 1 sometimes. I filmed something earlier that produced a bunch of I-frames only for a second or 2 then they started to spread out.

Ignore that. Just checked again and it was P-frames colored the same in AVInaptic

Thanks 1%. Good to know I'm on the right track with my testing. It's interesting about CBR & VBR on the same scene though my class 10 card isn't letting me hit the upper limits so i need to pick up something better. I can hit about 120Mbps before it stops.

Thanks for the heads-up on BRV, you're right, I was in GOP mode 

When you say about I, P D & GOP being sizes is it dimensions or bitrate size?

What does the averaging setting do? I get buffer overloads when its on. I'm also noticing that I can get higher bit rates by starting on a less detailed scene like the sky then tilting to the thing I want to shoot. If I hit rec on the detailed scene the buffer usually overloads immediately.

Is there any way we can have selectable config files for fast switching between settings on camera similar to what Miyake has done with selectable binarys?

It would be useful for testing GOP settings and other things. Remembering what I set for each test shot is difficult after ding a few. At the moment I'm trying GOP3 with CBR at about 1.5 which is working out at about 50-60Mbps. Should I increase the P factor to be greater than I?

BTW 1% I'm not seeing any I-frames in Bitrate viewer with my settings. Is that good?

AVInaptic
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/avinaptic

Thanks

Just been reading LPowell's post about his Flow Motion 2.2 100Mbps for the GH2 which uses GOP3. http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/3337/gh2-flow-motion-v2-100mbps-fast-action-performance-reliability-for-all-class-10-sd-cards/p1

This seems to be the optimal setting for that camera. Maybe a good starting point for testing this build? I'm still learning this so I'm not sure exactly what to set things to. So far I have got it set to GOP3 -16Qscale but bitrate viewer shows it's not a constant bit rate and I cant see any I-Frames.

BTW does anyone know an app similar to Stream Parser that will give us more detailed info? Bitrate Viewer is a bit basic.

Did you toggle bit rate on the movie menu to something other than FW default. The setting affects whether ML will set the rates or not. Set CBR from the sub menu and go back to the movie menu, hit set and push the BR up to something with the arrow keys (1.5x, 2.0x, etc). I'd call it a bug but basically I didn't modify that part of the code (that x rate sets nothing).  After that you can go back and lock qscale by switching to VBR or just use encoder menu to change sizes.

We disabled just that 1 assert, sounds like it was worth the effort vs disabling them all because of what you say about stability. Now we can patch any jump, I have a feeling this will be very handy.

Got it I hadn't toggled the bit rate

Ok, thanks to g3gg0 and nanomad error 70 is fixed. You're free to set the gop how you like, 1-100 something.

https://bitbucket.org/OtherOnePercent/tragic-lantern/downloads/autoexec.bin.600D.Exfat.Err70-Gone

Hi 1%, I'm trying this out but cant see any change in overall bit rate. I've set GOP to 1 but it looks like it's still recording at the default settings. I'm no expert with this (obviously). What settings should I dial in for an all-I frame test?

Cheers

Andy