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Hi Jimmy, thanks for that, i will try the 3x crop tomorrow. Do you get the same aliasing and moire artifacts too in your vids (non crop)? In my vids it makes the vids pretty well unusable - its really bad..

I am guessing any of the vids i see which look good on youtube/vimeo are also shot in 3x crop mode?

I did try your build recommendations on your older post but still couldn't get 24p continuous. I also did the exfat format (and 128 header) and can record over the 4GB limit but it normally drops a frame and stops by 5 or 6 GBS. I just think the SD controller is at the absolute max it can cope with.

Some of my videos were shot in crop mode (all were shot as raw), but the ones that weren't I did not experience much aliasing/moire, mostly due to the subject matter I would imagine though. The amount of moire is completely dependent upon the subject you are shooting, objects with fine, closely spaced lines/patterns of any sort will cause moire, like a window screen or a roof top with shingles, etc. some DSLR videographers consciously try to avoid shooting these types of objects.

Aliasing is something different and any DSLR camera which uses line skipping (which I believe are all) will have it, the reason you don't get aliasing with ML digital 3x crop mode is because there is no line skipping in that mode.

No question the camera is near it's limit at 36/37MBps, that's why to get continuous raw at 720p@24fps you have to employ every tweak possible, like those I mentioned plus most everything else with ML needs to be turned off, especially all the global draw stuff. Also, when we talk about 24fps, we mostly really mean 23.976 (ML may display 23.973 or something) and that little bit of difference might make it work.

RE: davocork

You can eliminate aliasing/moire by using digital 3x crop mode (when it's practical), see my video here: https://vimeo.com/jamesdesira


Also, see my post above for a different build and card format that will give you 720p@24fps raw continuous, plus make sure you set Canon auto-shutoff to never when recording raw, as the camera doesn't detect usage in this mode.

I'm having trouble understanding whether or not it is possible to record audio while recording RAW videos.
If it is, could someone please let me know the step by step process how to do so. I'm quite new to Magic Lantern.

Thanks!

I know that you can record raw video and audio using the newer MLV recording format instead of the older RAW format. First you have to make sure you are using a build that offers it, one of the nightlies, not the older alpha build (unless a newer alpha or a beta build is now available which includes it, then you can use that). Then you need to turn on a few of the modules that don't get automatically loaded when using magic lantern. Also, there are different apps needed for post processing mlv then what you would normally use for the older raw format without audio.

I'm just giving you some high-level of info here, because I know for sure all the nitty-gritty details are readily available in previous post and other threads, just google 'magic lantern mlv recording format' and I'm sure you'll find your way, here's a good place to start though: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7122.0

dear friends! anyone else have flash with speed 95mb/s ? I would like to hear feedback from the owners? I want to buy such a vehicle, but I think worth it to take or not?

P.S. sorry for my English )

Hey, was just shooting some RAW and repeatedly I wasn't getting continuous 1280x720@24fps, so I went to an older build and now I'm getting continuous all day long!

Try 2013-12-21 nightly build, that's December 21, 2013 or even try a day before and a day after, cause I can be off a 1/2 day due to time zones.

Give that one a shot and tell me what you think.

EDIT: Also, try formatting your cards exFAT at 128KBs, less headers to write than default size of 4KBs, considering each frame is about 1 MB (8 blocks) there won't be much waste.

The reason I mention MLV is because it allows you to record sound also, to my knowledge the regular RAW modules do not allow this, whereas MLV you can extract a WAV file also. It seems like I can mimic your workflow but just do the beginning differently (using mlvdump to get the RAW files etc)

Yeah, I like MLV for the audio aspect of it too, especially for syncing to external recording. Not sure what's available for it as fas as post production goes now, but when it first came out there was no conversion apps for OSX platform, that's the main reason I stuck with the legacy RAW version. Also, not sure if MLV with audio on causes the 650D to take a performance hit with regard to 1280x720@24fps continuous recording capability.

I agree with you about outputting as AVI, early in the post process anyway (I don't know enough about it to say yea or nay really), but I do know you can't go wrong exporting RAW as lossless or ProRes 4444 for archiving then comverting into other formats as the need arises.

[First]

I don't use the MLV I use regular RAW both are offered in magic lantern.

First I take all the raw files and put them on my desktop in a folder.
Second pass the raw file folder through " Pinkdotremover " which will override the orignals. So keep another copy elsewhere before using Pinkdotremover! Also when you use it and press convert you will not see anything happening, which is OK, DON'T TOUCH IT! It will let you know when complete.
Third pass the overidden raw file folder through " BATCHelor_3.0_Alpha3 ". It will create your DNG files.
Forth is the tricky part, I open the files in Adobe After Effects. I hit the import tab then click on the first DNG file of the sequence, then click sequence in the same import box.
Fifth Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) will open which will let you do any color corrections you need to do. Once done hit OK.
Sixth is now sending it to render. Render it at settings Best, and Lossless. Render will take the longest of steps. But worth it.
Voila !!
Now you have and avi lossless file which you can edit freely AND do color corrections if needed again.

I concur, my work flow is exactly the same. You can see some of my videos here: https://vimeo.com/jamesdesira

Most of the pages on this thread show people running the RW test from ML , and basing conclusions off that. As i just explained, im averaging like 30 mb/s, varying from 29.3 to 34 or so.. this is nowhere near the 60 mb/s it's advertised at. I'm not understanding why it's a proper testing method for others but not in this case, can you elaborate?

The only card for me that writes 1280x720@24fps continuously until the card runs out of space without dropping a frame for close to 32GB is one that's rated 95MBps, I happen to be using SanDisk Extreme Pro version. I've tried the 45MBps ones and they came up about 1MBps too slow to write according to the above mentioned spec. I've never tried the 60MBps ones, so I can't comment on those (although you would think they would be able to write the 37.5MBps or so needed for continuous 720p@24fps). You could always film at the next lower resolution and upres in post without any worries, but I'm not sure how the PinkDotRemover tool handles resolutions other than 720p normal and at 3x crop, which it does very well for both of these.

Also, for some reason the card writes faster when filming then it ever does in the ML card speed tests that I've done, so I would be cautious as to relying on those results for final determination of the cards ability to film 720p@24fps RAW continuously.

Hello everyone, I've been the silent tester for Magic Lantern for a bit now. I'm finally going to leave my findings of the ML 650D RAW video here for you to read.

You beat me to it! Nicely done, I was in the process of doing a similar test comparing H.264 to ML RAW myself, now I can think about doing something else :-)

For a better presentation with a test of this nature I would suggest using Vimeo, even with a free account you can control the quality better than you can with YouTube, this can help demonstrate your test videos better as Vimeo doesn't do as much compression.

All of course understandable, but ... how do you solve the problem with the red and green dots.
And what developers think about this ?

Pink dots are from fixed location focus points and as per sivencov use PinkDotRemover (which it looks like you may not have done yet), red and blue pixels (which happened to me when I shot footage in snow also in addition to the expected pink dots) are probably overexposed areas and best fix is per A1ex using chroma smoothing or take extreme care not to overexpose when capturing footage (hard to do in shot with snow though).

[jimmyD30]

jimmyD30
thanks for the tip! I conducted a test with 25 frames, it was modest result.
Today I will try your request 24 frames. I think everything will work out!

Sounds good! Let us know how it works out, also keep in mind it can take 15-45 secs before you get continuous footage OK message, meaning you will see yellow indicator for that period of time, then finally should see green (depending on build or if using MLV raw you may see different indicators).

[Sandisk Extreme 8GB 45 MB/s]

Hello People!, i have my New Sandisk Extreme 8GB 45 MB/s, I ordered 4 cards with 8gb each one because using small capacity card is better for keep cooler the camera, i read this in a forum and is true! One card is full? you change to another card and the camera will be cooler again.

Today I tested the RAW Video with this card and I have 1 minute and 20 seconds of continuos 720@24p video! For me is enough because I do cinema and the takes are very small.
I tested at 648@24p and I have continuous video with no problem!

Regards!

PD: I used the option "Card Warm Up with 64mb" and i put the camera in Raw photo mode.

Sweet, and if you really need to shoot for longer than a minute or so and want 720p@24fps you can always up-res the 648@24p footage, the RAW video (especially in 3x crop mode) should hold up well :-)

my card came!) BUT! I not long rejoiced. Indeed,  the recording speed of RAW restricts the camera itself. And that would be a lot not to write, publish picture:
моя карточка приехала!) НО! я не долго радовался. Действительно, скорость записи RAW ограничивает сама камера. И что бы много не писать, выкладываю фото:


hence the conclusion:
on our cameras (650d) buy very high-speed card does not make sense (
отсюда вывод:
на наших камерах (650d) покупать очень скоростные карты нет смысла (

Ok, where did you buy your card? Maybe counterfeit? Doubt it, but try doing in-camera card speed test and post results. If card write speed is less than 37MBps the card may be fake or just a bad copy (return for replacement if not a big hassle). Also, the particular ML build you're using may affect RAW recording performance. Another thing is to turn all other ML stuff off and use fps override and set to 23.976 (ML may show 23.973), this little bit of difference can actually make it work versus 24 fps.

You really shouldn't give up on getting 720p@24fps out of the camera, the combination of your camera and card should allow you to (just barely) record at this rate. Also, in your regular Canon menu, set picture type to RAW, this will give you the largest image buffer even for using ML RAW and set video to 1920x1080@24fps even though you will be shooting ML at 1280x720p.

I can tell you that you will need to play with the settings to get the greatest performance out of the camera for shooting RAW at 720p 24fps.

о, наши люди) в моем городе не продаются такие к сожалению ...заказал по почте, card приедет 20го числа, как проверю ее, поделюсь впечатлениями 

translate -
Oh, our people)) in my city are not sold such unfortunately ...ordered by mail, the card will come 20th of the number, how to put it, share impressions

And...

Translate -
и ...

if I understand you, then all it is worth to buy this card?

If you want to shoot continuous RAW at 1280x720@24fps on 650D then Yes!

The 95MBps cards will guarantee you can achieve this, as long as your camera can meet the 41MBps SD write speed the specs/forum members say it can do (which should be no problem and have not heard of anyone not getting this speed out of the camera). Reason I say this is because every electronic component every manufactured has some variation to it from the 'mean' stated in the specs, but usually very little and the better the manufacturer, the closer to the expected specs it will be.

For the 650D this isn't really a problem, because to get continuous 1280x720@24fps you need to write at a little above 37MBps, which falls well within the 41MBps spec even including some +/- variation.

Slower rated cards MIGHT be able to do it, depends on the 'copy' you get (every memory card made varies slightly in its read/write speed, the ratings given to a card are general and usually denote the read speed which is typically faster than the write speed).

This where the quality of the card comes into play, where as a SanDisk or Lexar would not be a problem, I have heard of KomputerBay cards causing issues.

Same here, have SanDisk Extreme 45MB/s and can rec only ~26sec @720p. That's it or can do something?
And cant get it atm, if i have 95MB/s card can i rec continuous @720p, but not higher res?

Although the card may be rated 45 MB/s, they don't always achieve that speed, that's been my experience (and others on this forum) anyway, probably because those ratings are usually READ speeds, WRITE speeds are usually a bit lower.

Yes, with a 95 MB/s card you can DEFINITELY achieve continuous 1280x720@24fps all day long, but that's the max I can get (reason being, the camera itself can't write any faster to the SD card). And if you format the card exFat, you can write larger than 4 GB file size. For example, I have recorded continuous video on a SanDisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s 32 GB card until it was full, about 15 mins.

Even with 45MB/s cards it is possible to record continuous 720p24

I would think so too and I believe you when you say this and I have heard others say the same, but when I tried my SanDisk Extreme 45 MB/s cards they seemed to write just a hair too slow for long term continuous recording, they were writing low to mid 36.x MB/s and it just wasn't enough, needed mid to high 37.x MB/s for continuous. BUT, maybe it was just the build I was using at the time or the copy of those particular cards. I wish they would have worked for me, because the 95 MB/s cards weren't cheap!

there are cards fast for our cameras, I recommend to buy the card at 90-95mb/s
here
http://ru.sandisk.com/products/memory-cards/sd/extremepro-sdxc-sdhc-uhs-1-95mbs/

Yes, 95 MB/s cards worked well for me too, also although the 650D max SD card write speed is about 41 MB/s, 45 MB/s cards would not record for long at 1280x720@24fps (they wrote about 1 MB/s too slow for continuous recording). With 95 MB/s cards I recorded continuously at 1280x720@24fps until the the card ran out of free space, about 15 mins on a 32GB card.

Be aware that for some reason even with fast SD cards it could take 15-45 secs for the camera to enter continuous recording mode, some say the card needs to 'warm up'.

When I found out how easy it is to make surround sound audio files, yes two stereo microphones would work (two Iphones:)).  But I bought a ZoomH2n.  It has 5 microphones and for surround it records to two wav files (two channels in the front and two in the back).  Much easier than having two separate microphones as I really want to try field recordings/video.  One thing I want to do is the train video like you did with surround sound. 

I use Audacity to take the Zoom files into either 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound (SS).  (I did not know Audacity could do this and how easy it was). There is a nice video on the web about making 5.1 but once you do that 7.1 is a snap. I export either as SS wav or ogg or m4a audio files.  Ogg and m4a files are much smaller.  After "developing" the raw video (I use Photoshop to edit as well as render the video.  I used to use Quicktime for rendering.  I have compared output form both and I like PS so for me it so easy to do all "developing"  in one piece of software)  as  to I combine the audio and video files in PowerDirector (v. 12).  I sync via clapper board (hence my original question).  I really need to find a small finger size clapper board or make my own.  PowerDirector as far as I can tell through comparing video editors  is the only editor to be able to combine ss ogg and m4a audio.  The problem however is that PowerDirector does not assign the speakers properly for ss ogg or m4a.  For example the left rear speaker maybe assigned the center speaker channel.  I have worked out how PD maps the audio to the speakers and have sent this study to  Cyberlink (they make PD).  They are now working on this and hopefully have a fix soon.  WAV files work fine but as I said they are large files that can make the video large.

Hope this is of interest.

dave

I have to laugh, I just bought the Zoom H2n last night! What I especially like about it, in addition to all the awesome features at a great price, is that it uses full size SD cards, the same as my camera, not micro-SD like a lot of other recorders are using these days.

I would suggest not to worry so much about the WAV file size, especially in relation to the RAW video recording file size. And considering you want to capture audio as surround sound, the uncompressed WAV format will be far superior in quality than any compressed format.

Have you looked into a smart phone or tablet Clapboard app? I don't know how good they are, but some are free.

Nice, What technique did you use to sync the audio?.   

d

Syncing was pretty easy considering it wasn't a dialogue type scene or some such thing. I just pressed the record buttons on both the camera and phone at the same time and then the stop buttons at the same time also, this left me with a 47 sec video recording and about a 47.25 sec audio recording. So, overlaying the audio on top of the video was straight forward as I was working with basically the same length for both with both being recorded at very nearly the same time. I ended up stretching the audio a bit in post, so that it played when the title was showing at the beginning of the video.

Keep in mind, I had initially forgot that recording in RAW wasn't going to capture audio, so like I said previously, I was kind of scrambling at the last minute to pull this off and just used what I had immediatlely available, hence using the iphone for audio recording.

You mention you were looking to record in 'surround sound', will you be using a special device or a stereo mic or maybe two uni-directional mono mics facing in different directions?

Cool, what did you use for the sound.  I am playing around with a surround sound recorder.

dave

Being a last minute kinda thing I didn't have all my gear with me, so I shot with a kit lens and captured sound on my iPhone with a 4-track recording app called Audiostar on best quality setting using just the phone's mic. You can still hear the wind blow even after I reduced it quite a bit in post. The alarm ringing was for the crossing gates just behind me, so this was actual audio of the event. I was lucky enough to have the train engineer blow the horn as he was passing by me giving that Doppler effect usually associated with trains.

We had just gotten 13.5 inches of snowfall the day before in upstate NY, so I thought it would be cool to catch the train blasting through the new snow and I wanted to try shooting RAW, so it was a good enough excuse for me to get out there and do it :-)

Well, here's my first video shooting RAW on the 650D: https://vimeo.com/81964818

Workflow as follows: Shot RAW 1280x720 @ 23.976 fps continuous video with Canon 650D/T4i then used Pink Dot Remover v0.08 on RAW file. Used RAWMagic 1.0 (Mac) to convert RAW file to DNG files. Opened DNGs in Adobe After Effects which started Adobe Camera Raw where I did some minor color correction (mostly auto-this and auto-that). After that I rendered in Adobe After Effects as lossless (animation). Opened lossless file in Adobe Premiere Pro and added audio then exported as H.264 10 Mb/s for Vimeo upload.

Note: Although not part of the workflow, I also played the lossless animation file in QuickTime Player which converted it to ProRes 4444 for viewing on my Mac and I was prompted to also save the file as such.

I mean can ml do raw recording 18 mp at 1 fps without using the mechanical shutter? Thanks for all of your help and sharing. Great community.

I think what you are asking is can ML do a complete 18 megapixel sensor (for 650D) write to the SD card at 1 fps in video/movie mode??? While probably technically possible, no ML version that I know of is presently setup to do that, all the versions I'm aware of basically use various video formats (e.g. 720p) and write it to the SD card at various frame rates, mostly maxing out at around 1280x720 @ 24 fps on the 650D.

Is this what you are asking? Or do you mean using the intervalometer in still picture mode with RAW image, if this is the case, then yes, I believe it's possible, but I'm not well versed in this area of ML, so you may want to re-post your question with more clarity and maybe someone else can answer it better than me.

Finally got the fast cards! I can report that I am getting 1280x720@24fps continuous RAW using SanDisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s card. This occurs after about 15-45 seconds of recording with a write speed of 36.9 MB/s and idle time reaching over 200ms after a few minutes and then slightly over 300ms thereafter. Not sure how much format allocation unit size matters, but setting between 64KB-128KB seemed to work best.

Recorded for about 11.5 mins with file size of 25.7 GB on a 32 GB card when it shut down automatically (on its own).

One thing to note, in the past when I set the fps override to 24fps it would display actual fps of 23.973, now when I set it to 24fps it states an actual frame rate of 24.002, so I don't know what's up with that.

UPDATE Dec-14-2013: Using the latest nightly build (Dec-13-2013) the actuall fps is back to 23.973 (whether setting Desired fps to 24.000 or 23.976), so I guess that's good.

Also, on a side note related to the new MLV raw video format, on the 650D .mlv is a little slower than .raw recordings, to the point that it won't record continuously for 1280x720p @ 24fps, I can see the MB/s slow down jnto the low 36.x MB/s when in MLV recording mode, all else being equal.

Just an update, still waiting for my fast SD cards to arrive, Amazon says they'll be here by Dec-11, can't wait to see the results, just need to eke out a few more MB/s to get continuous 1280x720p @ 24fps RAW!


IBIRRU, I answer some of your questions below, but I barely know how to do some of the basic things in ML and only on the 650D, so maybe look for additional verification of my answers.

YOU WROTE (in black) - I ANSWERED (in red):
I need to know before to buy the 650D (for sure)
1)  if the mlv_play module works (if it's possible to review the raw video stored in the SD card) - in 500D is not working
Yes, you can preview RAW on the camera, but not at proper frame rate, it plays back slower and of course there will be NO audio, as it doesn't record sound in RAW mode.
2) if the liveview is working during raw video recording - in 500D is not working
Yes, live view works whilst recording in RAW.
3) the maximum x_res and y_res and frame rate obtainable (es at 1024x1024 what is the max frame rate? Is it possible get 30 or more fps?) in 500D there is a 508 y_res limit
1024x1024 for RAW recording is not an option from the preset selections presently available (developers could probably add it, but this is a question for them), either way I don't think you'd get 30fps RAW @ 1024x1024 as the the highest frame rate being captured right now is 24fps @ 1280x720p and only under the best of conditions (fast SD card, all other features turned off, etc.), but you could shoot at slightly lessor settings to get your 30fps and then up-res and crop in post??? Considering its RAW, you'll have the detail to do it and it'll probably still look pretty good, better than H.264 compressed native video output anyway.
4) Intervalometer and bulb timer are working? - I use them a lot
I haven't tried this, but I believe it's working from what I've read in other posts.
5) LCD sensor remote is working? - I use it a lot to substitute the remote shutter
First off, I believe you mean IR (InfraRed) remote sensor, but either way I have no idea, I suggest you search the forums for an answer or post the question separately in a more appropriate thread with a similar topic.

Ok, just some additional info for those looking to shoot RAW on their 650D"s

With global draw and all other features turned off, using sandisk extreme 45mb/s formatted exFAT 128kb allocated unit size I'm getting continuous video using 1152x648 @ 23.976 with write speed 29mb/s (I stopped it at 4 mins with 7gb file size and it was still going strong).

Also, experienced continuous video using 1280x720 @ 23 fps with write speed of 35mb/s and no signs of slowing down, but this seemed to be at its limit (not sure if card write speed limit or camera SD write speed limit).

Waiting for sandisk extreme pro 95mb/s cards to arrive and will post results of that soon, which should tell the final story regarding write speed limit for this camera model.

Thanks again to all Dev Team members and forum posters! Without which none of this would be possible :-)