Messages

I would also like to know how fast the 50D really is. It won't be able to write 133 Megabyte/s for sure ... But maybe something around 60 Megabyte/s?
Could anybody please run this damn card benchmark?

Or is it not available for the 50D?

If the 50D is faster then 40 Megabyte/s i might get one too ... And since it has only 15 MP, there should be less moire then with the other ML cameras, right?
This could really become the APS-C equivalent of the 5D Mark II ...

You can get continuous 1152x480 on that card. [...] I'm not the only hitting that, am I?

I don't know but on my 600D I only get something between 150 and 450 frames in this resolution.
Continuous recording only works with 1152 X 434 or 1280 X 400 ... At least with 24 frames per second.

I shot today on 1920x1080p 23.976 default resolution in camera, then in ML RAW mode 960x480, I upscaled it to 1920 in post looks better than h264

Did you count in the crop faktor? Or not? If you haven't, comparing H.264 and RAW in terms of detail is absolutely pointless

Yes, noise is a real problem at the moment. This weird LiveView noise is even uglier then normal noise.

Overexposing a bit and turn down the exposure in post seems to work very well to avoid noise. But I bought a DSLR to be able to shoot even in low light so I really hope there's a solution for that ... And of course the colorfull pixels are a little bit distracting too.

And we also need the missing camera profiles. The green tones still look a bit strange in my opinion.

But thinking back to three weeks ago where we just had H.264 and nothing else ... It's really awesome how much progress has been made and how great the results are. Even with the very cheap EOS 600D, an entry level DSLR (Mainly a photo camera!), we are now able to record (fake) 720p raw video at 24 frames per second. That make's the 600D one of the best video cameras under 2000 €!

I mean: The dynamic range is huuuge, the details are stunning, just like the colors. There are no motion artifacts and the freedoms in post are incredible!

I'm sure the issues above can be fixed. Only thing that's left and that will stay forever is rolling shutter.

Holy shit!

I wonder what the 5D Mark III guys are getting when they upscale their 1920 X 1080 RAW files?
(Not that you really need more ... It is just amazing to see what the Canon DSLR are capable of!)

You can't scale a 1600 X 400 image to 1600 X 664 in Lightroom ... So what did you use? Photoshop?

This is still sooo excited!

Niiice! These RAW videos are just insane. Thank you for testing it. Maybe I'll try something too ...

Already working
1280x560 is what you can shoot at 24p

On 650D? Nice!

Edit: 1280 X 560 at 24 fps is only 30 Megabyte/s. 1280 X 720 is 39 ... But it doesn't work?
What's the max write speed of the 650D (Benchmark)? I'm just curious.

5D mark II will hopefully settle at stable 24/1080p so we could conclude that DIGIC 4 is enough for RAW HD video = good news for 50D.))

According to A1ex the CPU doesn't matter. He said that the "secret ingredient" for RAW video is zero CPU usage
It's all about write speed. And I think the 50D will win this contest.

P.S. Nope, I'm russian :-)

(if die Sache lohnt die Mühe nicht).

I know it's totally off topic but ... What's the deal with it?

"die Sache lohnt die Mühe nicht" is German ... I'm just curious why a Russian uses a German phrase in an English forum

But I see your point. You might be right with the dynamic range ... Or wrong. I don't know. How much steps of dynamic range do the DNG files really have? And how much does the Cinestyle have? Is there a way to measure easily?

Remember using 720P mode you get a downscaled raw image vs 1080P

I thought that in 720p mode there's just even more line skipping then in 1080p? And because of that the image appears streched. But it's just missing lines in horizontal resolution. If you resize it in post to 1280 X 720 you should get a pretty nice 720p image, right?
I haven't tried it yet. But it's a littly bit like recording 720i instead of 720p ...

But I think the problem with comparing the different resolutions is that most people don't change the focal length if they compare 1920 X 1080 H.264 and something like a 1280 X 434 (Upscaled to 1280 X 720) RAW video. But they should, since the cropfactor changes ... Otherwise RAW will always win when you compare both at 100 % view

Have you shot with it? Interested to see what the DNGs look like and how many you get

Me too. Once raw_rec will be available for the 50D it might become the cheapest camera that can record RAW video with high resolutions.

But wait, how fast is it? Has anybody run a benchmark already? Doesn't the 50D has something like a 40 Megaybte/s write speed limit? (I am not sure where I read that ...)

Hopefully the 70D will take CF cards again ... 

Thanks a bunch, that's exactly what my problem was. I had no idea that setting was in there, guess I can go test it out for real thanks to you.

I'm glad that helped you

But keep in mind that you have to switch it back to "RAW" or "LargeFine" before you start shooting stills. Otherwise they may be corrupted.
And be carefull, taking out the SD-Card doesn't reset this setting. It will stay "SRAW" and you can't change it from the Canon menu.

But for video it's really nice when you're using "high" resolutions.

I just did some testing and Cinestyle is better then RAW in terms of shadow recovery because the RAW images get extremly noisy when you bump up the exposure in post. But the Cinestyle is very, very weak in terms of detail. It's even worse then Neutral Picture Style.

And when you try to recover the highlights, Cinestyle doesn't really help at all. Of course, you have a little bit more detail in the highlights then with Neutral, but everything that's blown out stays blown out. With the DNG files I can get back everything I want. And since I overexposed the shot, there was no noise at all. And even in 1280 X 400 the DNG files had much more detail and sharpness then the cinestyle could ever have.

In daylight I would prefer RAW instead of Cinestyle. Just expose right to your subject and bring back sky and highlights in post. Or overexpose your subject a little bit, if there is no sky in the background, to lower the noise. Fixing it won't be any problem (At least not with Lightroom 4. Other programs may have different recovery abilitys).

For everyone that says 650D is better... the AF points are burned into the DNGs and not easy to remove... plus all the other issues that cameras has (in addition to being EOL)

Good to know. Thank you for the warning. I was really thinking about "upgrading"

Well. 1280 X 400 RAW video is still nice enough for the moment.

Sorry for this second post 

is there a certain way to format it to give you no frame skipping? I only get 20.1 mb/s max out of the card for some reason. I turned off everything and still get frame skipping.

what were you shooting this at under raw settings? I still get random magenta and skipped frames with 960x540

You haven't set "Pic Quality" to "SRAW" yet, right? Do it and reboot your camera (It's in "Shoot" tab). This will increase the size of your buffer on the 600D.
And since a small buffer results in skipped and magenta frames, the increased buffer size should help you

Is it possible, that the issue with the green shadow areas also changed the green tone itself? Because in every H.264 vs RAW comparison I saw so far the color of trees and grass looked quite unnatural in the RAW shots. Or is that just the difference between 8 and 14 bit?

While recording I'm also getting 20.1 Megabyte/s. But according to the card benchmarks 21.3 Megabyte/s would be possible too.
If the EOS 650D can get up to 40 Megabyte/s it should handle 1280 X 720 at 24 fps (about 39 Megabyte/s) right? 700D is probably the same ...

And right now I can't see any improvements in dynamic range here - CineStyle is really flat and gives pretty much all range it can give from sensor, and in raw - noise eats it all. [..] (if die Sache lohnt die Mühe nicht).

What software did you use to process the raw files?

I haven't tried cinestyle yet. But I compared H.264 with "Neutral" Picture Style and RAW. I overeposed a lot of shots to see how much I could recover in post. On one shot the sky was completly blown out and I was sure that there would be no way to get it back. And for H.264 that was true but with the RAW video I was able to recover the whole sky and even the clouds (Using Lightroom 4. Maybe your software doesn't handle the DNGs so well?) ... So there's a huge difference between H.264 and RAW. At least without cinestyle.

I'll see if the black level fixes helped with the green tones and how much worse cinestyle is compared to raw in terms of dynamic range ...

And are you German?

what were you shooting this at under raw settings? I still get random magenta and skipped frames with 960x540. are you running LV in 720 and shooting with 640x360?

Today I shot some short clips to see how well 960 X 540 performs against 1080p H.264 and I haven't seen any magenta frame. And I've just turned the skipping off because I can record continously until the file size reaches the 4 GB limit. So why should I need skipping? 

I was in 1080 X 1920 24p Movie Mode with "FPS override" turned off. Also every option of "Global Draw" was turned off. And I didn't use audio recording either. I put a link to my SD-card in my earlier post.

So far, everything works quite nice 

960x480 or 500 and eventually hopefully a bigger buffer.

What? Even with the current "Edmac Popin" build i'm able to record continous at 24 fps with these resolutions:

- 720 X 720
- 1280 X 400
- 960 X 540

(With sound and frame skipping both turned off)

I have this SD-Card: 16 GB 45 MB/s SanDisk SDHC | Amazon

The dynamic range of theses DNG files is just insane. I wasn't able to get anything overexposed yet!

You don't have to violate the laws of physics. But we should violate the donation button! Even if my 600D wouldn't have raw video at all I still would love you for showing what the 5D Mark III is capable of. I was just thinking "Well, I guess I'll leave Canon and buy a Blackmagic soon" a couple of weeks ago. And then you guys came up with that amazing raw stuff! You can be really proud on what you've done. 

Hi. I guess since we already know that the EOS 600D wont't be able to write more then 21 MB/s this isn't really helpfull. But here is my test:

I used: Canon EOS 600D | Yesterday's Nightly Build | 16 GB 45 MB/s SanDisk Extreme SDHC

Code Select Expand


Buffer size experiment
ML v2.3.NEXT.2013May17.600D102, cd52bc1653e9 tip
Mode: photo, Global Draw: OFF
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If you find a way to overclock the SD-Controller, then do it. I don't care if my camera explodes if I can record 1280 X 720 for longer then 3 seconds :p

Is it just me or does the "New Channel" build not work correctly? I only tried it briefly but every single frame was only purple noise ...
I used 3 different resolutions, but all files turned out to be unusable ...

Is it my fault or is something wrong with the build?

[extremly bad]

Considering that the 60D (and I'm assuming the 600D) both take SDXC cards with 95 MB/s transfer rates I'm sure we get get up to 1280x720

1280 X 720 would require ~ 39 Megabyte/s write speed. But the SD-controller of the 550D, 600D and 60D seems to have a max. write speed of 21 Megabyte/s. And since there's absolutely no way to compress the files inside the camera, I doubt that we'll see 1280 X 720 on these cameras. A least not at 24p

7D, 6D, 700D/650D and EOS M might handle 1280 X 720 since they seem to have different SD-controllers and the 7D even takes CF cards ...

Would be great if you could shoot a chart or a detailed scene of some sort with both 960 x 540 RAW and the default 1080p h.264 so we can see the difference between them. I'm on a 550D atm, and my fingers are itching for some raw footage.

Well, at the moment I don't have a shot with many details on my Notebook. But here's something to see how much more Dynamik range the raw files have:

- 720 X 720 DNG Frame
- 1920 X 1080 H.264 Video

Both shot on 600D at 24p, no editing, exact same settings. That DNG frame is just one single frame of a whole sequence with 632 frames.

Just download them and try to recover the sky in Lightroom or CameraRaw or whatever

I apologize for the colorful borders. That are the CAs of my Canon 50mm 1.8 II 
Tomorrow I'll see what I can do for detail, and I'll use my much better Sigma 50mm 2.8 Makro to avoid such ugly CAs ...

But anyway, nice dynamic range, right? I did some other tests too I think you'll need to have extremly bad lighting conditions to under- or overexpose a raw video ...

Hope that helped you a little bit. Let's see how much the great developers can improve that.

[way]

Hi

Here's what I'm getting with my EOS 600D and a SD-card that reaches the 21 MB/s limit at 24p:

- 1280 X 720 | stops after  71 frames
- 1280 X 400 | over 1500 frames
- 720 X 720 | over 1500 frames
- 960 X 540 | over 1500 frames

Since the 600D is very similar to the 60D I'm sure that you will get almost the same results. But don't worry, even 960 X 540 RAW videos have way more detail then the default 1080 X 1920 H.264. And of course, working with them is amazing. The dynamic range is just insane!
Getting overexposure with that raw videos seems to bee impossible

purple frames popping up randomly or only in the beginning?

No. It's more like:

First 120 frames are fine. Then every sixth frame is purple for about 3 seconds. Then the next 250 frames are fine again. Then again every every sixth is purple for about 3 seconds. It's strange, but way better than it was with the first versions.

The numbers vary but that seems to be the scheme.

I was using todays Nightly Build and "BeepsTwice" raw_rec.

But I will try what Andy600 suggested ... Unless I'm not sure if that'll have any affect since Global Draw is already off.

I'm just wondering if the faster cards are getting twice the performance?

On my EOS 600D with a card that reaches the 21 MB/s limit I was able to get:

- 1280 X 720 | stops after  71 frames | ~ 10 of them are purple frames
- 1280 X 400 | over 1500 frames | ~ 40 of them are purple frames
- 720 X 720 | over 1500 frames| ~ 30 of them are purple frames
- 960 X 540 | over 1500 frames | ~ 30 of them are purple frames

Settings: Golbal Draw = Off, 1080 24p mode, fps override = Off

The card was fresh formated. Quite nice, isn't it?

I also have that problem with these colorful dots if I check the images with Google Picasa ...
But when I open them in Lightroom 4 they disappear

The Canon EOS 5D Mark III has nearly the same image quality as the Blackmagic Cinema Camera? Shit! This is way more than I have expected!

Canon, why don't you just give us what we want in the first place? And why do you have to give us such shitty SD controllers? 
I would almost say I dislike Canon for creating this artificial limitations. But since Magic Lantern is only for Canon DSLRs there's no alternative anymore.

Well, again: Congratulations to all of you developers. Like I said, Magic Lantern truly is the hidden treasure of the internet.

I guess I'll start to save money ...

Lol, I should have bought sandisk 45MB card...

Well, I have that one and it doesn't help at all since the 600D limits the write speed to 21 MB/s ... So I guess you'll be fine with whatever you have at the moment

CFP - Even without being able to shoot 1080p, It's not the end of the world for us 'prosumer camera' users when it comes to RAW. The images still look way better than what we get with H.264 even if we have to shoot smaller and scale up. It's also great that we get the chance to record our own RAW footage to play with and develop/learn RAW post production methods with manageable files sizes. Think of it as a trial period before we upgrade to 5d MkIII's etc. (that won't be anytime soon for me unfortunately)

I know! And like I said before, I'm still very excited about all this! It is truely amazing that the cameras actually can handle RAW video! And even if the resolution isn't as high as I'm used to, it still is enough to work with.

I didn't want to sound ungrateful. Instead, I really appreciate all this! Magic Lantern was already amazing before this feature was added. Now it's just more amazing than ever before 

But I think I'll stuck with my 600D for a little bit longer. I just bought it in July 2012 and I still like it

can anyone get me a working copy for the 600D? please?

Here it is: [600D] Auto allocation.zip | From Tragic Lantern 2.0.

Just replace your current "autoexec.bin" with that new one and put the "MODULES" folder into your "ML" folder.

check thread - I'd already posted - max possible for 600D/550D/60D is 960x480 or 1320x360.
It is limited not by speed of SD card, but by speed of internal camera SD controller which is limited to 21 MB/s.

Yes, I've read your post. I've read ervey post

But like I said, 720 X 720 is also possible. 1280 X 550 is just a tiny bit more ... So I thought maybe there would be a chance to get it. But if there's no way to speed up the SD controler I better stop dreaming 

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

CFP - Raw record settings on the 600d are in another menu.

Ah! I found it, thank you very much! 

I was to excited to check the other menus so I didn't even recognized the new "RAW video" option ... Sorry for beeing so blind. But really, thanks a lot!

It seems to work pretty good on my EOS 600D. I was able to record with 720 X 720 at 24 fps. Occasionally a single frame was skipped but I would still call it continously. Awesome! Hopefully something like 1280 X 550 (21:9 aspect ratio) will work one day too.

Could somebody with a fast SD card could give it a try? According to the benchmark my card has a max. write speed of 21 MB/s ... 1280 X 550 would require > 27 MB/s.

I still haven't found a compiled version of the raw2dng.exe.

Have you already tried this one: raw2dng.exe | From Tragic Lantern 2.0?