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Messages - apefos

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Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 23, 2013, 08:49:59 PM »
I think it is impractical, let me explain why:

Updated: maybe the folowing idea is also impractical due to we do not know if the h264 compression can retain enough information from each pixel, probably not...

I came back here now to talk about my next idea, and I believe it is the solution (if it can be implemented by the magic lantern team)

Please, follow this thoughts:

In the video I did compressing the DNG sequence into H264 I proved the lines separation can be retained by the codec. So a question was born in my mind: if the h264 codec can retain the lines separation why are we getting merged lines? simple answer: the problem comes from the debayer!!! when the camera does the debayer before compressing to h264 it hurts the lines separation, because the sensor debayer uses the information from surrounding pixels to reconstruct the hole image, and if a pixel is dark and the other is bright, the debayer will calculate an average result between them... so some lines comes merged, with a luminance between the two isos values.

so what is the MAGIC solution? simple! the solution is to implement a way to avoid the debayer algorithm in the camera and record the raw information compressed in h264 and in computer we will use a similar raw workflow, convert the h264 into DNG and do the same workflow used in raw.

and you can ask, so why not record in raw? because h264 allows full hd recording in the low budget cameras in 24fps, 30fps and even more.

what we need to do is to avoid the camera debayer algorithm and record the raw information compressed into h264

for me this idea makes perfect sense. does it makes sense to you all? it also makes sense for an external uncompressed recorder or lossless compressed external recorder.

would it be possible and easy to implement?

(in electronics this thing is called a "bypass")

we can try this in CBR 1.3x or even 1.8x or more if camera can handle.

please read the updated information in the beginning.

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 23, 2013, 06:57:12 PM »
Another interesting approach would be to forget about lines and think about some kind of debayer algorithm.

after finding the wave pattern frequency to recover the luminance of each line, instead of recovering the lines luminance, this information could be used in conjunct with the luminance and color information of the surrounding pixels and surrounding lines to do a debayering instead of deinterlacing+interpolation+merging

this approach makes my curiosity about one line per iso more intriguing, because finding the wave pattern frequency for the luminance in dual iso h264 video with one line per iso could make possible to creat a much better debayer algorithm than usin two lines per iso...

wow, my mind is blooming...

I strongly believe that if someone becomes willing to develop this algorithm, to see the behavior of one line per iso will be mandatory to understand and develop the algorithm, no matter if the final working solution will be with one or two lines per iso...

instead of debayering this algorithm can be called "DeLinering"

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 23, 2013, 06:24:14 PM »
Sunglasses off, I am back!  :)

There is a pattern! This makes things completely possible!

I tried the same technique used in the video I made earlier:

I will show four working steps from the same image, each image was extracted from each of the three cameras used in the h264 dual iso videos of this topic.

the working steps are:
Step A: pure image, just 400% zoom
Step B: the image with the height reduced by 50% to eliminate half of the lines and turn it into what would be a one line per iso, dual iso image
Step C : the even field deinterlaced with interpolation
Step D : the odd field deinterlaced with interpolation

Observing the step A, I realized that there is not a perfect separation among the two lines by iso as we would like to get, and we cannot understand how this separation was impaired, we just can see that some lines seem a mixture of different isos .

Observing the step B we can see that the lines which are a mixture of the different isos appear in a constant interval, ie, when the camera do the debayering and compressing, the mixture of isos in some lines happens in a constant interval. This means that we are encountering the beginning of a mathematical formula that can reconstitute these lines to their original luminance level, because everything indicates that the mixture of isos happens in some respect to a constant lines inerval and certainly the intensity range of the mixture will be the same when considering the same distance between lines.

Observing images of the steps C and D may establish that this really have the constant interval for the mixture luminance in lines and moreover we can also see that this variation occurs in a wave form, ie, I found that there is a frequency .

What the programmer of the algorithm need to do is discover this frequency and turn it into a mathematical formula to retrieve the correct luminance of each line of the image. Probably no need to separate the images into groups of different isos in the first moment, but to implement the function that removes the wave frequency in luminance variation caused by the camera debayering and compression, and thereafter, with the correct luminance in the reconstructed lines, the algorithm will can separate the two images with different isos.

As you can see in the pictures below the frequency of luminance variation is the same for all the three cameras, which proves that the algorithm will work on all cameras.

You can also notice that the frequency of luminance variation is the same in Steps C and D, only presenting an inverted wave, which would be expected because these images correspond to the even and odd fields respectively.

No need to worry about the deinterlaced and interpolated images shows the two isos in varying waveform, it is precisely this that the algorithm will correct .

This experimentation leads me to elaborate the theory that the camera debayer and compression can generate a frequency variation of the luminance of the lines in some waveform that could also be reconstituted in dual iso recording with one line per iso, suffice to discover the wave pattern frequency and turn it into a mathematical function.

Hope all this can help someone to develop the algorithm...

Scientific spirit is moved by curiosity and for not believing in the impossible. The scientist has a motivated spirit that never ends, the scientist is always thinking and taking/getting ideas from his mind. Scientist spirit does experiences, draws conclusions and elaborates theories, moves to a new, more enhanced experience, improved experiences turns to make a law theory. A scientific law is nothing more than a mathematical formula that has functional connection with reality, a mathematical formula, a function! And an algorithm may be composed of a number of functions.  :P

Was this a good homework? Do I deserve a try in one line per iso?

(images below are displayed with 400% zoom for better viewing of the lines, do not worry about the macroblocking , it is due to the 400% zoom )

I believe I uploaded the DNG extracted from the RAW video using RAW2DNG.exe, not processed by the CR2HDR yet, so the idea is to use these DNGs to test the hot pixel remover in the CR2HDR-HOT.exe

Drag them over the CR2DNG-HOT.exe to see if the hot pixel removing works, you can use them to test the CR2HDR-HOT.exe until find a version which can corrects the hot pixels.

I know you can do this using your RAW and DNG files, I just uploaded these because was shoot with the 600D, and maybe the 600D hotpixels can be different from the other cameras like 5D3.

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 23, 2013, 01:55:46 PM »
I saw images in 600% zoom in timeline and the lines keep same horizontal position from begining to end of the clips and even same position in different clips and in clips with different frame rate in my 600D.

The two clips I downloaded from two other people shows lines in same position from begining to end of clips also, but lines position differs from one camera to another, not a problem for the algorithm.

The latest 2013/11/23 build for 600D.102 shows 70 Celsius, I compared with the 2013/09/28 build which shows 60 celsius, so maybe not a big difference... Only latest builds works with dual iso h264 recording.

Well guys, it seems my job is done... I know nothing about computer programming so developing the algorithm is not for me... :'(

this idea is now waiting for an expert in computer programming to make the algorithm to turn it into wonderfull HDR videos from cheap Rebel Canon DSLR cameras in glorious full hd 24p and even in 35p for slow motion. (is someone from magic lantern team willing to do?) :)

Many thanks and good by for now... 8)

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 23, 2013, 12:13:31 PM »
I updated the previous post with lots of new ideas for the algorithm, please read again

Important thing is we have ideas for the algorithm, the expert in computer programming will translate the ideas into the algorithm code, so if you have ideas for the algorithm, please share here...

Nightly Builds / Re: Nightly Builds - try the very latest stuff here
« on: November 23, 2013, 11:59:39 AM »

latest 2013/11/23 build for 600D.102 reaching 82 Celsius, movie recording stops automaticaly, I saw grain noise increasing in the sensor significantly...

I loved the display layout in this build, and all features and modules I tested are stable, but temperature is definetely a problem!!!

previous information before post update:
600D temperature report:
in the 2013/11/23 build for 600D.102 temperature goes to 70C in early seconds of recording
in the 2013/09/28 build for 600D.102 temperature keeps at 60C (maximum) after various minutes of recording

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 23, 2013, 11:10:52 AM »
Huston, we have a problem... (and some interesting ideas for solutions)

Update_1: I did a look in the timeline with 600% zoom and the lines position (horizontal position) is always the same from the begining to the end of the recorded clips. Even better, in my camera the lines position is the same for all the clips including clips with different frame rate. All frame rates I recorded was a multiple of 0.999 (24 x 0.999 = 23.976) (30 x 0.999 = 29.97) (35 x 0.999 = 34.965) this seems to avoid the waterfalling behavior.

when looking at the image in 100% zoom (default size) in computer screen, the perceiving of lines separation is perfect, you just see the different isos perfectly.

but when zooming in to 400% or 800% zoom, you start to perceive the lines separation is not so perfect, and the separation random changes among two lines for each iso / two lines for one iso and three for the other / two lines for one iso and the subsequent line as some kind of a merge and then the other iso comes...

so, the workflow using 50% downscale in height to get one line per iso does not work. also extracting two images using two lines per iso maybe will not work... (I said maybe because i did not try). So probably we will need a special algorithm which could consider these situations and reconstruct the two separated images or instead of reconstruct the separated images it could do some kind of fusion and get the merged result without separating the images.

this algorithm needs to be build by an expert, and this seems to be the point this idea will stop forever... unless someone is willing to develop this algorithm... the algorithm needs to find which line is iso 100, wich line is iso 800 and which line is a merge between them to do the job (the merged lines would be an average iso 300 result? or a random iso, something between the two isos...)

Or the algorithm would need to separate only the lines which are in the correct low/high isos and discard the ununsable lines. and then reconstruct the images using the usefull lines (maybe half of the lines will be usefull in each frame and maybe the position of good lines will be the same among all the frames in each shoot.)

Discard lines would not be so good because it increases aliasing and lower the resolution. Better solution would be using all the lines, a smart algorith which could to the job using all information from the frames. The information is there... but this is a job for an expert in computer programming...

Another good idea for the algorithm is it try to reconstruct the two lines per iso pattern before extracting each iso, finding the merged lines and doing some kind of "lift or low" in the luminance value for the merged lines, to get the perfect two lines per iso image before deinterlace+interpolation. Maybe this is the easy solution for building the algorithm. The algorithm puts numbers in lines and consider (first image = lines 1+2/5+6/9+10) and (second image = lines 3+4/7+8/11+12). Then the algorithm find the darkest lines for the low iso group and the lightest lines for the high iso group. All other lines will be consider merged lines and would be calibrated lifting or lowering the luminance to match the other lines... After this the algorithm does the deinterlace+interpolation considering two lines per iso, for the first group it puts the interpolated lines below the original lines and for the second group it puts the interpolated lines above the original lines, this is to keep height alignment between the two images, and then the algorithm merges them! I believe this will works, we just need an expert in programming...

Also, instead of separating the line groups before "lift or low" the merged lines, a better idea could be finding the darkest and lightest lines, compares the lines around them and do the "lift or low" in a way to reconstruct the two lines per iso. Just changing the order of things... lift or low before separating groups instead of separating groups before lift or low. or even better, doing the lift or low for the merged lines considering a lines pattern mask with the two lines per iso desing... the expert in programming can decide and implement this...

Important things are: 1 - the information is there, 2 - we are free of hot pixels, 3 - the recording is stable and with sound, 4 - it seems the lines position (good and merged lines) are the same among the frames of each shoot, 5 - color cast can be solved in post or in the processing moment.

Then a crazy idea comes to my mind: Maybe one line per iso will be the way to get this merge between the two isos already done in camera. the one line per iso will never get lines separation, instead of lines separation it will merge everything in a mess or if we have luck in the result we want already from camera!!! (as I said: crazy idea!)

See these images, the first image is a 100% zoom (default size) to perceive that for the eyes the lines separation is good, and the second image a zoom in to show that the separation is random and shows merged lines (maybe it will keep the same random position and same merged/good lines among all frames in each shoot facilitating the algorithm's job):

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 23, 2013, 10:04:31 AM »
I am using the 2013/11/23 build for 600D.102 from Latest Build download page. (select your platform = 600D.102)

to enable dual iso H264 recording, I replaced the with the one I downloaded from here:

There is a temperature issue in the 2013/11/23 for 600D.102, the display shows 70 Celsius, and until now the developers do not know if this is overheating or a display problem. I recorded some clips and got no Canon simbol overheating warning and no shutdown. I compared the 2013/09/28 build and the temperature raised to 60 Celsius. Not a big difference, so I will keep using the latest build...

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 23, 2013, 09:52:11 AM »
You can actually record dual iso on h.264 without a modified .mo. I tried this a couple of months ago on my 5d mark 3. It goes like this
1 - set up your dual iso settings
1 - Prepare your raw rec to lowest setting 640x360 and then disable the raw rec module
2 - get into normal camera rec mode and start record in h.264
3 - go back into the ML raw rec while recording h.264 and start raw recording then hit rec again which will start the raw recording aswell on top of h.264 recording.
I stop the raw with the normal button and the h.264 recording by hitting menu button.

Not the most beautiful solution and AT YOUR OWN RISK, of course. If a developer like to delete this suggestion, feel free to do so. This is not anything I practice at all and only did it for fun.

please explain to us why you do not recommend

also, tell us the advantages of using your method


Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 23, 2013, 02:49:40 AM »
Great! I am free of hot pixels also! The only workflow I know to do at this moment is to discard half of the lines (50% height downscale) and do deinterlace + interpolation for each iso. This is not ideal, better than this would be to get a way to preserve all the lines and reconstruct the images interpolating them... so I did not try yet. It will be better we try to find someone professional to develop it... at this moment I am waiting an email reply from ginger...

I just uploaded an original 100/800 mov dual iso h264 video in 1920x1080 @23.976fps (3x crop mode disabled) (no vaf-txi filter) just the default 600D T3i camera. I got good average colors in this, used a 1000 watts halogen lamp lowered by a dimmer and 2800k manual wb.

Can't believe, it is amazing, three persons, three cameras, three uploaded videos, all free of hotpixels and good lines separation! This is very promissing! Fingers crossed for we get a great workflow!

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 23, 2013, 12:51:29 AM »
Great, downloading right now to see your results!

Are you free of magenta dots (hot spots) in both 3x crop zoom and in default 1920x1080p no crop?

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 23, 2013, 12:38:21 AM »
I just sent an email to ginger hdr support, hope they listen to me... imagine ginger hdr workflow for this... it would be a breeze...

(in the momen I sent the email to ginger the views in this topic was: (Read 1920 times). Yes, interesting coincidence!

Nightly Builds / Re: Nightly Builds - try the very latest stuff here
« on: November 23, 2013, 12:04:01 AM »
I am getting 67 Celsius in latest 600D build with RED warning (11/22/2013 buildfor 600D)... this build is working fine for dual iso in h264 recording so I would like to know if this issue will be fixed or if someone could point me to the most recent previous build without this overheating issue...


Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 22, 2013, 11:57:38 PM »
about the workflow, maybe the people from these sites can do the "one pass" solution (deinterlace extraction, interpolation, merging): (ginger hdr, they work with EXR hdr files wich is great for tweaking in timeline) (deshaker and deinterlace filters for virtual dub, they work with great deinterlace solutions)

One thing I realized is:

after extraction (deinterlace) the image from the lower lines pair must be repositioned to match the position of the first group.

imagine the image reconstructed from the first lines pairs comparing to the image reconstructed from the second lines pairs. they will be two lines mismatched in height.

so, in the interpolation moment, the reconstructed lines must be below the original lines for the first image and above the original lines for the second image, this way they will match in height position.

I know you all hate the one line per iso idea, but why not give it a try? We have nothing to lose, and if it works, the workflow is already ready to go... deinterlace and interpolate in premiere, after, vegas or virtual dub and merge with enfuse gui. and also better resolution and less aliasing.. guys we have nothing to lose testing one line per iso... lets give it a try... (please don't ban me from the forum due to coming back with this idea   ;))

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 22, 2013, 11:45:24 PM »
More tests and:

Until now I did not see any, I mean ANY magenta dots!!! (no one, nada)

I can do 35fps override for slow motion in fullhd!!!

It seems I found the problem of waterfalling behavior: in 35fps it gives me the problem, but I tweaked it for a multiple of 0.999 (to match 23.976) and I found 34.965 was the number, and then "voilá" no more waterfalling in lines!!! (I did just one test in this, needs confirmation)

The lines separation is perfect even in 100/3200 dual iso!!! (I am using 1.3x CBR)

All this in glorious 1920x1080p fullhd in a low budget Rebel 600D T3i !!!

In camera LCD the preview is magenta cast, but in computer it is less magenta, maybe after merging the colors gets better, or will need color correction (WB was correct in camera)

Wow, so nice!!!

Problem is this last build is giving me 67 celsius RED warning... so I need to find a build without overheating...

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 22, 2013, 11:34:59 PM »
Yes 3x crop, and also the VAF-Txi filter!

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 22, 2013, 10:42:04 PM »
Bleeding Edge is for the Real Man!  :o  ;D  ;)

Guys, now we can record it in H264, so why keep the same still sequence workflow? It is time comsuming...

Let's think about a deinterlace and interpolate plugin for VirtualDub or even for Premiere or After Effects...

We need a deinterlace+interpolate plugin wich can consider two lines (pairs) instead of one line. It is the same principle, just considering two lines. So we can use the same dual h264 video to export two extracted and reconstructed videos...

We also need a hdr plugin for VirtualDub or Premiere / After effects. Something like Enfuse GUI, but for use in two video streams...

Better if we could have a plugin which could do everything in just one pass, extract the two streams and merge them delivering the final result in just one pass processing... this is what we need...

Let's think to avoid still image sequences...

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 22, 2013, 10:27:45 PM »
Oh Guys!... I could not resist... I confess I was freaking afraid and feeling irresponsible loading this to camera. But then I realize the problem was not the fear, the problem was being a low budget guy with no money to buy another camera...

And then I thought... fuck the camera, if it bricks I can hire someone free lancer for my work... I am realy a low budget bleeding edge guy... And I jumped from the bridge...

I downloaded and loaded it to camera... and "ufs"...finger in the on/off lever...  turned it on... lots of error messages... but went on... and I found the ettr module needs to be disabled to avoid the errors.

So I downloaded the last 600D nightly and inserted the dual_iso (h264) inside it replacing the other... much better and no error messages. (600D 22/11/2013) The layout in this build is great, but temperature is reaching 60 Celius so maybe better go back for other build...

recording is nice, dual iso in h264 works!!!

It worth my home work and my "moaned and groaned"

I think my moving out from the topic for a while was good for other people to come and participate also...

now it is time for the workflow...

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 22, 2013, 04:31:08 AM »
I like to be on the bleeding edge. Problem is I have some important work to do with the camera next days, so I cannot allow myself the risk of run into any problems now. January will be a good moment to test because the important work I have to do with the camera will be done. Hope you understand!

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 22, 2013, 04:02:56 AM »
Sorry, but I will give up testing...

The nightly builds territory is not for me... It is not so simple to install and make it to work. And the advice "at your own risk" scares me...

If someday the developers come with a good working solution, like the downloads I did from 1% TL, I will install it...

Many thanks, but I will stop for now... maybe I am too hungry for dynamic range... and maybe it will be better to record dual iso raw because it is safe to do...

The h264 idea is great, but I realized that testing it in early stages is not for me... I did the contribution I could do, but developing and testing in early stages is not for me... sorry!

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 22, 2013, 03:10:02 AM »
"Err" again...

I do not want to move out of TL... TL is working pretty fine in 600D

Maybe it will be better we ask for 1% help...

(I deleted the dual iso module from my site because the right place for downloading it is from the bitbucket)

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 22, 2013, 01:51:08 AM »
thanks, but it does not work in the 600D T3i, in the modules loading page, in camera lcd, I get an error message "Err" in front of it.

Can you please download and enable the h264 in this module: (this one is working in 600d T3i)

this working version for 600D T3i is from the latest NewMem build from 1%, see:

Here it is a RAW dual iso video recorded by the 600D T3i for download. I uploaded it because it gives me lots of magenta dots and can be used for reproduce the problem and improve the CR2HDR-HOT (drag and drop over the cr2hdr-hot to reproduce the dots in dng sequence)

Feature Requests / Re: dual ISO H.264
« on: November 21, 2013, 06:38:13 PM »
Ok, let's forget about one line per iso...

Can I just ask for enable the dual iso recording in h264? (just enable and keep the two lines per iso)

a1ex told me he would enable it after my homework, and I did the homework in photo and video...

@apefos: please do your homework first. After you will get reasonably good results, post them and I'll enable it for video.


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