Messages

Shankar101,

Watch Zeek's videos shot on the EOS-M with ML and then come back again and tell us that you don't like the colors.  The 3 models suggested by Walter Schulz are very powerful and highly capable RAW-video cameras that will not disappoint you.  All you need to do is learn how to use MLVApp which is a very powerful, intuitive and simple to use software, (free of charge) and you will be blown away by the image quality and colors you get.

Here is an example by Zeek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9BN9xnlKaM&ab_channel=Zeek.

In my experience, the 700D provides less noise and a cleaner image in the darks compared to the EOS-M.  I don't know why.  It could be a different sensor or some kind of noise reduction at RAW level but overall the image of the 700D looks cleaner in the shadows.

ML700D,

Unfortunately, I do not have that sample any more.  I filmed a scene outside throudh the window and got some of the room interior in the frame to capture a high-contrast/high dynamic range scene.  Then I examined the clip in MLVApp right from the card and was very pleased with the result.  Then I deleted the file since I did not needed it any more.  I just remember that, after adjusting the sliders, the histogram filled the entire area starting at 0 on the left and ending with 0 on the right without over or underexposure. 

Yes, ML700D, I just edited my post. 

You are a big fan of Dual ISO, aren't you?  Well, I have very good news for you.  Your 700D creates miracles with Dual ISO 100/800 with the Full-res LV preset at 18 fps now: 1736x2928/10bit/18fps/1/33s.  You have to be very careful with exposure though.  Even slight over or underexposure will produce corrupt frames.   But once you get it right, you will enjoy a very clean and naturally looking image.  Just give it a try and report back! 

Congratulations, Bilal, to your new amazing achievement!

I performed initial tests with your build: "crop_rec_4k.2022Apr07.700D115"

and it worked right ouf the box, even with Dual ISO !  The 1736x2928 provides continuous recording at 18 fps now, with a few corrupt frames now and then.  The shutter speed indicator seems to be broken though but I have to check with one of the other three builds to see if it works.  In the above build it shows some odd numbers like 1/92s or 1/170s in this and also other modes and these numbers do not change when you adjust the shutter speed dial.  In earlier builds this indicator used to work fine.  Also, I could't get the timelapse mode at 5208x2928 (1:1) working at frame rates higher than 2,5 fps.  Camera records just one frame and stops recording.

EDIT:

I kept testing with the build: "crop_rec_4k.2022Apr07.700D115_Shutter_Blanking_ISOless"

The shutter issue is gone now, Dual ISO works fine too.  With a slight underexposure, in the Full Width LV mode I get continuous recording at 1376x2306/12bit/24fps with a few corrupt frames.  The number of corrupt frames increases when I get closer to overexposure.  Dual ISO seems to produce less corrupt frames probably because it boosts the shadows and avoids crushing them. 

What is quite annoying is this box full of text that appears quite often on the screen after recording starts.  It goes away only upon turning camera off and on again.

I do have a question regarding resolutions in the 1x3 anamorphic modes.  Would it be possible to increase them in such manner that they take advantage of the 13 MB/s write speed improvement without ending up with corrupt frames?

I will illustrate what I mean with one example.  My favorite mode is the 1312x2214/10bit/24fps/16:9.  When I use it now, it gives me about 45.3 MB/s recording speed which is way lower than what the camera is up to, (83 MB/s according to your measurements on page 1).  Unfortunately, camera will only allow me to increase the horizontal but not the vertical resolution for the desired 16:9 aspect ratio.  Could this be fixed somehow?  I am asking because it appears that mostly the 2.35:1 aspect ratio benefits from the speed improvement.  I think a resolution of 1600x2700/10bit/24fps (16:9) or similar would be absolutely gorgeous.

Absolutely!

The UHD 1x3 1280x2160 mode at 12bit and 24 fps provides an absolutely gorgeous result.  Recording is continuous too.  I use it all the time.

For wide  angle landscape videography, there is another favorite mode of mine: the 5k 1x3 1736x2928 mode at 12bit and 16 fps.  This mode is also continuous and provides full-sensor readout.  Works great with Dual ISO too - perfect for sun sets or other high-contrast scenes.  If you set the shutter to 1/16-th of a sec. you also get an additional stop of light - perfect for street videography at night.  You get a nice motion blur but need to keep the camera very steady (tripod, gimbal), otherwise rolling shutter will kill your shots.

All in all I think that the 1x3 high-resolution modes are among the greatest achievements of our developers.

Here is an interesting post:

https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=26414.msg238174#msg238174

Has anyone compiled this for the 5D3?

It's not difficult to test yourself, all you need is a build for your camera, where the option is enabled.

Has anyone compiled this for the 5d3 (113)?

Yes, I do have a suggestion for you.  When you post these videos, please provide more detailed explanations on your camera settings and MLVApp creative adjustments, if you wish to be helpfull to those who wish to learn from you, just as you learn from others.  Otherwise people have to guess what you did and this is not the best way to learn.

For example, I like the way you blend the unprocessed with the processed image.  How do you do that?  Is there an easy way to do that in Resolve?

Changing background color would be another very welcome addition to this fantastic software.  Thanks a lot, Masc, for considering it!  I have been using MLVApp to process my still RAW files from the 5D3 for quite some time now and cannot be happier.  The processing flexibility and precision helps me get much better results compared to ACR, especially w.r.t. skin tones and noise reduction.  And I love the fact that it gets better and better. 

Congratulations to the developers for their amazing achievement!

No need to be sorry, Bilal.  Since I use Dual ISO a lot, this bug was really giving me a hard time.  I am glad to see that you have fixed it.  Thank you so much!

Glad to see that you are practicing and getting better as a result of that.  But this bluisch filter ..., I don't know.

nice.. I always get very dark image when using 100/800 with f/4

ML700D,

You need to learn how to expose to the right (ETTR) properly, also with Dual ISO!  In this particular shot I increased the exposure until zebras started appearing on the window of the store on the left.  Then I dialed it down by 1/3 of a stop and started recording.  I could have used F2.8 but in that case, zebras started showing up on the brightest areas, that is why I had to dial the aperture down to F4. 

If the light is not enough, you can try playing around with the Dual ISO numbers until the camera allows you to perform the above procedure.  Instead of 100/800, use 200/1600 or 100/1600 or even 400/3200, etc.   Just make sure you do not blow up the brightest areas since this really looks ugly.  Sometimes, the scene gets even too bright to look natural.  As I said, before asking questions, practice, practice, practice until you like what you see and after analyzing the results on your computer you will very quickly get the feeling for it.  Nobody else is going to do that for you!  MLVApp is such a wonderful tool in giving you all the metadata of your shots.  Why don't you just write down on a piece of paper the settings that work best for you and use them as a starting point in your future shots?  After some practice you will be able to tell if your exposure is right just by looking at the image on your camera screen.

And most importantly, just don't expect miracles!  They don't happen, even with the most expensive cameras.  But if you get things right you can produce some very beautiful high image quality shots even with such low-end cameras as the EOS-M or the 700D.  I always admire Zeek's work.  All his videos are technically close to perfection simply because he has learned how to squeeze the very last bit of image quality out of his EOS-M.  Just watch them all, you will have a lot of fun and learn a lot!

Thank you again, Masc.  I have downloaded your clip and will take a look.

Here is a Dual ISO clip that I have shot on the 700D:

https://we.tl/t-psETTga5hW

A sample .MLV is also enclosed.  I have downsized the clip to 2560x1440 resolution since the 5,2K file does not play smoothly on my PC.

Thanks a lot, Masc.  These are quite impressive render times, indeed.  If you have not deleted the test files yet, could you take a look at 100% magnification?  Is the image quality for Dual ISO much worse compared to the Elgersburg workflow?

Ha, that's very interesting, Bilal, thanks for the tip.  Haven't paid attention to that before since I haven't used Dual ISO much in the past.  But now that I have played around with Dual ISO quite a lot and am aware of the fact that it can greatly improve dynamic range and image quality in low-light high-contrast scenes in real life filming situations, I have to retry Dual ISO on one of the older versions of MLVApp.  Hopefully, I will not end up with some ugly artefacts.  One nice feature of v. 1.13 is that I am quite satisfied with the image quality of Dual ISO files, especially in the 1736x2928 full sensor width resolution that provides enough vertical resolution for Dual ISO.  Even occasional flickering does not seem to be that big of a problem.  In my experience, Dual ISO is a real life saver in many real world low-light scenarios, especially for cameras such as the EOS-M, 650D and 700D that do not shine with good low-light performance.

Masc,

It would be very interesting to compare image quality and render times of your Elgersburg workflow (high ISO, Darkframe subtraction, RBF noise reduction, etc.) to Dual ISO 200/1600 or 400/3200 or even 1600/6400.  If you have performed such comparative tests, could you please share a few thoughts on that?   

Masc,

You say that the Dual ISO algorithm runs single threaded and needs much CPU power.  Isn't it possible to make it run multi threaded?  This would be a game changer for this fantastic feature.

Sounds good to me, Masc.  Checking out one of these old workstations with tons of threads certainly makes sense.

Thanks Masc!  How many cores (threads) does MLVApp support?

Low-light high-ISO performance is not EOS-M's strength.  You could try Dual ISO at 800/3200 in the 1280x2160 anamorphic mode which will give you somewhat cleaner results but do not expect miracles.  Please get yourself a small adjustable LED light from the ones that attach to the camera's hot shoe and try to illuminate people's faces and the scene in the foreground slightly.  This will allow you to film at Dual ISO 200/1600 or 400/3200 while exposing to the right (ETTR) and also to focus more precisely.  Be careful with the light intensity if you wish to preserve a naturally looking scene.  In a situation like this, if you do not push the darks too much in post, you will get very beautiful and clean images with sufficient detail in the shadows.  This requires some practice though. 

Good luck and have fun!

Hello Masc,

I have a question for you.  Right now there are a variety of very powerful used workstations in very good condition that can be purchased for a very good price.  For example, this one:

https://www.kvantservice.com/product/dell-precision-7810-17265/

that has 2x Octa Core Xeon Processors at 3,2 GHz, 64 GB of RAM, 1 TB NVMe SSD and the M5000 GPU can be obtained for less than 1500 Euro.  In addition, it is extremely quiet, quite compact and very well built.  My question is:  Does it make sense to use a workhorse like this for running multiple instances of MLVApp simultaneously?  I tried running 2x MLVApp simultaneously on my i7 laptop with 32 GB of RAM.  However, this did not bring any significant improvement in overall render duration compared to a single MLVApp.  If the above workstation is used for running 4x MLVApp simultaneously, could we expect a significant improvement in render duration, especially when processing Dual ISO footage that takes forever on the laptop?

I am asking because MLVApp occupies a significant part of my workflow and I am looking for ways to improve its efficiency.  MacBook Air M1 is not an option since the workstation will also be used for other serious tasks.

Excellent!  This video is a nice demonstration on how well MLVApp and Resolve work together.

I use a very similar workflow - all corrections in MLVApp using the "Alexa Wide Gamut RGB" profile with "Allow Creative Adjustments" checked.  Then I export to ProRes 422LT which is pretty fast and then I do all the editing in Resolve.  I that way I preserve maximum color information and finest detail and ProRes files play very smoothly in Resolve even on my 9-year old laptop.  Works very well with 1280x2160/12bit/24fps footage from the EOS-M and also with 4k anamorphic footage from the 5D3.  I like this workflow not only because it is easy and fast but also because for me this is the best way to get very natural skin tones which in MLVApp is achieved with just one mouse click.  I never get satisfactory results with that in Resolve - I am not good at that.  Also, in MLVApp I get much better results with difficult high-contrast scenes, such as sunsets, compared to Resolve.  I am not good at that in Resolve either.   And finally, MLVApp is the only solution to processing Dual ISO footage which is my favorite for high-contrast scenes shot in the anamorphic mode.  Overall, I am very happy with the above workflow.

I have tested the HDMI output of the 700D with a no-name capture card connected to the USB port of my laptop.  It works just fine but the output is very low resolution and it looks horible.  I get a much better result using the EOS Webcam Utility with Zoom or OBS.  In my opinion, only the 5D3 with firmware 1.2.3 provides an HDMI output with reasonable resolution and quality but it has a greenish cast which is hard to correct in OBS.  EOS Webcam Utility provides much more naturally looking colors.

Mcfake,

You are saying that it works fine with a TV/Monitor.  What about the resolution, video quality and colors in that case?  Are you able to get something close to FHD out of your 700D's HDMI output and if yes, in what video shooting modes?

If anyone else has any experience with the quality of the 700D's HDMI output, I should greatly appreciate some feedback on that.

The above means, that in canon log 3, shadow data is pushed in post by three stops.
This is a lot and is the reason for shadow noise in log footage.

For non raw recording, and also for the R6:
If you're recording a low dynamic range scene (8 stops or lower), it could mean that you might be better of with exposing to the right and not use canon log 3.
This way, you could have cleaner shadows I guess (not sure, not tested it  )

Thanks a lot, Levas, for this important experiment.  I was kind of suspecting that Log 3 in R5 and R6 works as you described but never had the opportunity to get hold of one of these cameras to test.  I am glad you did it.  Now it may turn out that the good old 5D3 with its Dual ISO and carefully exposing to the right may provide cleaner shadows results than the R5/R6 with the Log 3 profile.  I have been playing around a lot with the high-resolution anamorphic modes on the 5D3 and the 700D and got very clean shadows results on both of them.  This is also confirmed with the latest results by 70MM13 who gets extremely clean footage in dark high-contrast scenes with his 5D3 even without Dual ISO.  As a bonus, we also get this organic and naturally looking RAW footage provided by ML. 

I was wondering if you made any comparative experiments with your 6D vs. R5/R6.  No wonder if we get to see some interesting surprises here.

Another very nice song!  For the first time I like the candle flairs.  Did you have a filter on or it is the lens that produces them?