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Messages - zen_nudist

#1
Thanks Timby! I'll keep plugging away, haha. The amount of time I've spent trying to improve my resolution and overall quality in ML with underwater video is nuts!
#2
Does anyone have a shorthand set of instructions on how to achieve 3520x1520 resolution 24fps 12 bit lossless in 5d3, using the  "crop_rec" module as part of the experimental "ML crop_rec_4k.2018Jul22.5D113" build?

I'm using the SanDisk Extreme Pro 160MB/s 256GB card, which ML benchmarks show can record at over 110 MB/s continuous.

I'm only able to achieve 3584x1320 at those settings.

Even with setting Liveview preview to frozen, which A1ex says can improve the process, and even when going down to 11 bit lossless.

I seem to be limited to 1320 along the y/vertical access.

Is it a combination of selecting the correct crop mode and aspect ratio? I normally set the crop mode at 3.5K 1:1 centered 5x5, but I've tried several crop modes and several aspect ratios and still can't get past 1320 on the vertical axis.

Or am I still limited by card speed?
#3
Quote from: yourboylloyd on October 15, 2019, 08:45:46 PM
I don't know the exact reason, but all ML cameras have a MAX vertical resolution in standard mode and in crop mode. Maybe someone else can explain that part.

I used to use this calculator to calculate the ratios that I needed. I don't know if it's been updated or not (I'm sure it hasn't kept up with the nightly builds), but here it is. You can see that the max resolution for the 5d3 in crop is 1320. https://rawcalculator.netlify.com/calculator_desktop

Hmm, but other folks have demonstrated 3520x1520 resolution with the 5d3 using the crop rec module.
#4
As a follow-up, I've gotten the SanDisk Extreme PRO 160 MB/s 256GB CF card to allow for greater resolution and/or higher fps.

Using build: ML crop_rec_4k.2018Jul22.5D113

Tests in the ML benchmark module shows a write speed of 114 and 111 (did two tests), so yes it's faster than my older Lexar 1066X ... which gave me 12bit lossless 24fps 3072x1320.

However, at 12 bit lossless, 24fps, and crop mode at 3.5K 1:1 centered 5x5, I cannot get any resolution greater than 3584x1320, even when I set the LCD "Preview" mode to "Frozen," as A1ex (or some other developer) states can improve speeds.

I've tried several aspect ratios, ranging from 16:9 to 2.35:1, but I get nothing greater than 3584x1320. I've also tried several crop modes, switching from 3.5K 1:1 centered 5x5.
A question is why I'm getting greater resolution along the X-axis and no increase along the Y-axis, even when switching to aspect ratios that allow for more resolution along the Y-axis?  I don't think it's the card, because when I wheel through the different resolutions, going from 1920 up through 3072 and 3520 and up into 4096, the green text at the bottom of the LCD remains green and indicates no data rate greater than 98.4. (I might be misinterpreting this, however). This leads me to believe it's some combination of crop mode and aspect ratio I'm not understanding.

//TL;DR// What do I need to do to get to 3520x1520 at 12 bit lossless, 24fps, as this guy (with the same cards) does: https://youtu.be/rFOgpU_Q66g?t=26

*As for 30fps, I'm able to get 3072x1320 at 12-bit lossless, which is pleasing (for slowing down motion induced by underwater environment). I don't expect I'll be able to get 30fps at higher resolution.
#5
For anyone who might be interested in filming underwater...

Below is an example of some clips. Recorded 3072x1320 resolution, 12-bit lossless, 24fps, 2.35:1 aspect ratio in the crop mode. Exported CinemaDNG lossless from MLV App. Imported to resolve and did basic color correcting, added contrast and midtone details (no LUT applied). Exported individual clips from Resolve to DNxHR HQX 12-bit intermediate codec. Imported to Premiere for editing clips together (I didn't really do any editing ... just going through this process, as this is what I'll do for real projects). Exported to 1920x"whatevertheheightis" and exported to .mp4 (h.264) with bit rate of 30 and max of 50. Uploaded to YouTube.

I look forward to seeing how the quality compares in deep water. These shots were just from a shallow water snorkel in mid-day, thus lots of sunlight to help with image quality and color correction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgU1lucGDq8
#6
Quote from: Dmytro_ua on September 17, 2019, 11:06:50 AM
At first, start with https://builds.magiclantern.fm/experiments.html  Module name: 4K raw video recording; lossless compression  Latest Build (2018-07-22 13:09)
When you'll have got used to it, then you can try a modified version by Danne from here: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=23041.msg216899#msg216899

Thank you Dmytro_ua!

Whoa, after hours of experimenting, I was able to get the 4K raw video recording; lossless compression build working. Was able to get continuous recording at: 12 bit lossless; resolution of 3072 x 1320; 24fps; aspect ratio 16:9. That was the highest frame rate and resolution was able to get and achieve continuous recording.

In case anyone's interested, here's a video of the test shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBKMIohxWeM

Pulled DNGs (from MLV App) into Resolve, did a very light grade, exported from Resolve to DNxHR 4444 at original 3072x1320 resolution (Holy file size, Batman!); brought into Premiere (along with a comparison VLOG L clip from my GH5) and exported to MP4 from Premiere.

I look forward to doing test shots underwater, which I'll soon share here in case anyone's interested. I'm not sure how well I'll be able to frame shots with the live view issues present in crop mode to achieve the UHD capabilities. Down at 120 feet and inside sunken ships ... this will probably be barrier ... but we'll see.

Also, I'll get a faster card so I can record at 30 fps and even higher resolution ... 80 MBytes/s write speed just isn't fast enough for long-term use.


#7
Quote from: Dmytro_ua on September 15, 2019, 10:06:06 AM
You don't need a faster card as there's a limit in a camera CF bus speed.
You're missing a lot not using a compressed lossless 14-bit. You can record 1920x1080 at 29.97fps continuous with a fullcolored realtime preview + proxy video to SD card (to have a preview in a camera). It's a regular Canon's video + ML RAW.
If you don't need proxies, you can get ML with higher resolution or higher FPS (up to 60 fps - 1920x800 but preview is a little broken).

All this will work with your current Lexar 1066x card

Which build do you recommend for compressed lossless 14-bit? I do not see any modules or options or anything in my build allowing "compressed lossless." Thank you!
#8
Quote from: yourboylloyd on September 09, 2019, 12:42:51 PM
That's an extremely long workflow for the first one. MLVAPP can cut your time "BRIDGE, ACR, AFTER EFFECTS, MEDIA ENCODER PROCESS" by almost quadruple. MLVAPP is pretty powerful, especially if you have a solid GPU. Of course Resolve is faster too.

But I understand wanting to work with camera raw.
Bro... what? You should be using the "Smart Import 2" script for After Effects. That would remove the Bridge-ACR step and take you straight into Camera Raw in AE. Here's a link to it: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13354.0 . Will probably save you hours of time. You can also do the warp stabilizer effect in AE to skip your having to use premiere step. I think you exporting the footage so many times may have something to do with the quality loss (I could be SUPER wrong about that though).

Also, next time consider shooting in 12-bit. There is practically no difference in dynamic range in 12-bit, but you can shoot at higher resolutions. I think having more resolution would help you in cases like these.

Denoiser III by redgiant is an absolute god-send. You can crank the shadows up and slap denoiser on there and you'll get crystal clear footage. I also think you should add sharpening (unsharp mask) to some of the footage. Sometimes the fish gets slightly blurry and this would improve on that end.

Thank you for your informative response. It's much appreciated. I'm going to:

1) Get a faster card so I can shoot 14 bit at 1920x1080 at 29.97fps continuous (I got ripped off with my Lexar 1066x apparently, in terms of write speed). I belief any extra resolution will help. In meantime, I'll experiment with the 12-bit suggestion you have.

2) Continue with the Resolve process: In terms of image quality results on YouTube, I don't see much difference between the Bridge/ACR/AE process and the much streamlined and faster Resolve process. I'll follow your advice about sharpening and de-noising in Premiere, but I'll use Neat Video, as I have that already

3) I'll experiment with skipping encoding to DNxHD and going straight from .dng to for-YouTube .mp4. It'll be interesting to see if that improves quality any.

4) I'll experiment with the ML 4K experimental build.

5) I'll report back my results on all this in case anyone else is interested in filming underwater with ML. I'm honestly surprised at the lack of info out there on this subject.
#9
Quote from: Dmytro_ua on September 09, 2019, 08:43:26 PM
Why don't you use a 14bit lossless? You can go much higher resolution with it.
The build is in an Experimental branch but it works without any issues.

Hi, I'm not sure I follow. The build I'm using is a nightly non-experimental build. I record everything at 14-bit RAW. My card supports 1600x900 at 29.97fps continuous. Is there something I'm missing, or are you mistaken?
#10
Quote from: Dmytro_ua on September 09, 2019, 09:25:32 PM
What underwater case did you use?

Ikelite housing and strobe arm. Kraken Hydra 3500 underwater light (I really need another one, but god it's a lot of money).
#11
Anyone have experience processing DNGs recorded underwater? It's a challenge perfecting the white balance, color, exposure while minimizing noise. Exposure changes constantly; color falls off exponentially at depth; visibility in the water inhibits clarity of subjects; etc. So, I'm experimenting and looking for advice.

I'm experimenting with 2 very different processing workflows, both of which are explained below. The end goal at the end of each process is to create high quality .movs for archival purposes and to be used in a variety of videos, many of which are encoded to MP4 h.264 for YouTube (yes, I'm aware of the YouTube compression, but I'm seeing what happens there). I have a MP4 for each process linked below, using the same batches of DNGs. (A few from each clip are linked here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1iAyHVo27pQDHm6XAdG2dwoG8V2DPD3lP

I'm looking for comparison/contrast comments and comments as to how I might be messing up in Resolve and/ or ACR. Frankly, I think both look pretty bad even when played at 720p on YouTube.

I use a 5DIII and use ML build Nightly.2018Feb04.FD3113. In camera, I record 14bit raw at 29.97fps at 1600px900p. That's the highest resolution I can get at 30fps, and I'm fine with the 1.20 difference in resolution right now. I use a 35mm f/2 prime, shooting around f/8, ISO under 1000, shutter speed of 1/60th. 

I always use MLVApp to create the CinemaDNG Uncompressed DNGs.

Here are the two ways I'm experimenting with processing the DNGs.

BRIDGE, ACR, AFTER EFFECTS, MEDIA ENCODER PROCESS

1) I select a DNG in Bridge, edit it in ACR. Copy those image qualities and paste to the rest of the DNGs in the clip folder.
2) I assemble the individual DNGs into a single video clip in After Effects and export to Media Encoder.
3) I export from Media Encoder to 1600x900p, 29.97 fps ProRes 422HQ.

Now, I have the archival-ready quality clips I can use in other projects.

I pull those ProRes .movs into premiere, interpret them to 24fps (to smooth out camera shake), edit them together, and export to MP4 via h.264, vbr 30, max 50.

Upload to YouTube.

This is the "Version 1" video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46tWC4HwNyA

RESOLVE PROCESS

Project Settings Camera RAW settings
RAW profile: CinemaDNG
Decode Quality: Full Res.
Decode Using: Project
Apply Pre Tone Curve: Checked

Create timeline from dng folders

Camera Raw Panel
Decode Quality:Full Res.
Decode Using: Clip
White Balance: Custom
Color Space: Blackmagic Design
Gamma: Blackmagic Design

Node 1
1) I start by using the either the "Pick Black Point" or "Pick White Point" tool in color wheels. This gives me the quickest approximation to contrast, clarity and white balance that I need.
2) I adjust exposure and midtone detail to make image as bright as possible while trying my best to minimize noise. This is a balancing act, and there will always be noise I have to deal with, at least in deep water. Sometimes exposure is over 2, sometimes it's in the negative.
3) A final color temp adjustment may be made

No other nodes ... no LUT desired at this point, if at all.

Export to DNxHD at 1080p 4444, 29.97fps

Now, I have the archival-ready quality clips I can use in other projects.

I pull those DNxHD .movs into premiere, interpret them to 24fps (to smooth out camera shake), edit them together, and export to MP4 via h.264, vbr 30, max 50.

Upload to YouTube.

This is the "Version 2" video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaoqeCvkDcY


#12
General Help Q&A / Re: Does speed of firmware card matter?
September 09, 2019, 06:32:36 AM
Thanks, Walter Shultz!
#13
General Help Q&A / Re: Does speed of firmware card matter?
September 07, 2019, 05:52:34 AM
Well hot damn. Yep, I've got the slow one. 79.8 MByte/s write. That's nowhere close to the 155 MByte/s speed advertised. Do you have recommendations for faster cards?
#14
General Help Q&A / Does speed of firmware card matter?
September 06, 2019, 01:22:21 AM
Question: Does the speed of the SD card I'm using to run magic lantern matter?

I can record onto my CF card (linked below) 1920x1080p at 24fps fine without limit, but not 30fps. It begins to skip frames after 15-20 seconds when going 30fps. Alternatively, I can record 1600x900p at 30fps fine without limit.

The SD card has max of 27 MB/s. It's linked here:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/895449-REG/Lexar_lsd8gbbsbna200_8GB_SDHC_Memory_Card.html

The CF card--I know--is fast enough. It's the Lexar 1066x 160 MB/s.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1022078-REG/lexar_lcf128crbna1066_128_gb_pro_compact.html
#15
Raw Video / Re: Before I give up on ML raw video ...
January 03, 2019, 11:41:34 PM
1) I read the entire post and did not see a list of banned applications. Is MLVFS ok?

2) What do you mean "without access to footage?" I provided a link to the video on YouTube. How the footage appears on YouTube is the entire point of my post. The footage plays back fine on my hard drive, of course.
#16
Raw Video / Before I give up on ML raw video ...
January 03, 2019, 10:42:35 PM
I have a final question before I give up on Magic Lantern and move on with my life. I want to make simple videos for YouTube—nothing special.

But despite trying so many different settings both in the camera, in my workflow and in exporting, I still am left with "poor quality" video playback at 480p and 720p on YouTube. I know YouTube isn't a site known for great compression algorithms, but when I view other videos also shot in 14 bit raw via Magic Lantern on 5D Mark III, they blow mine away, even at those low resolutions.

Could someone please take a look at this example video I just created. Just a simple thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6PEMzOEIuA

Here's a comparison video done by someone else 5 years ago on a Mark II. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6PEMzOEIuA

The difference is pronounced. I'm wondering if anyone might have any last thoughts on what I could be doing wrong.

Specs are below
Camera: 5D Mark III
Magic Lantern nightly build February 2018
1920x1080p
Recording 23.976fps clips and 29.97 clips modified down to 23.976fps
Using RAWMagic to create DNG sequences
Edit DNGs in ACR via Bridge
Pull DNGs and their metadata into After Effects and export ProRes 422HQ clips via Media Encoder
Assemble the ProRes clips in Premiere Pro
Export a 23.976fps .mp4 via h.264, encoded via Variable Bit Raw 2 pass / 15 bit target / 30 bit max

My suspicion for my latest test video (linked above) was that I had too much camera shake, but I'm not sure that can explain the severe pixelation going on, especially during stable shots.

My Magic Lantern experiment has been such a time-consuming let down that I'm about to move on to a different camera system and get on with my life (I've been tinkering with this for nearly two years). I appreciate any help. Thank you.
#17
I tried some different footage I got with a better lens in better lighting conditions. Looks pretty good.

Thank you for the truly stellar app.
#18
Wow, your app MLV App is simply stunning. I took a 14 bit MLV clip into the app, and it exported a beautiful ProRes clip in one step. Blown away.

But...when exported as a .mp4 (h.264) from Premiere Pro and uploaded to YouTube ... it looks like garbage on YouTube. Even at 720p it's far worse than a comparison clip (linked below) at SD. This YouTube hurdle is just a monster I can't seem to defeat no matter what I try ...

Very good looking footage at 480p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRycHtgDcgU

My footage example using MLV App
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpZKTWnawVc

#19
The general process, though, is that you don't simply throw completely untouched raw DNG sequences at Premiere, right? And that you should be doing as much correcting (sharpening, levels, contrast, etc.) of the footage before Premiere sees it, like in the form of a ProRes clip generated from After Effects--or this MLV App program. Right?
#20
General Help Q&A / Not taking advantage of raw at all
November 28, 2018, 11:42:35 PM
So, I think I'm an idiot, and I want someone to affirm that I am, indeed, an idiot. I think I missed something big in my workflow.

1-I shot a bunch of test clips in 14 bit raw (nightly build from February this year). I know I had all the settings and modules and resolution activated/correct etc.

2-I used RAWMagic to create DNGs from the MLVs.

3-I imported those DNG sequences directly into Premiere and cut them together using Pr's new proxy ingest tools (awesome, by the way).

4-I applied a LUT (Osiris by Vision Color) to the DNG sequences.

5-I exported an h.264 video at these settings: 1080p / variable bit rate 2 pass / target 15 + max 30.

I uploaded the test video to YouTube, resulting in something that looks like utter garbage. So much artifacting, noise, mushiness and so on. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRLIC5vqVs4

*So, I missed the step where I take the DNGs into ACR (or lightroom or after effects ... I know there are several ways) and do all the corrections there: levels, contrast, clarity, noise reduction. Right?

Only after that has completed do I import into Premiere, cut together and apply a LUT for color grading. Right? Because I've done that method before, and the footage looked a lot better. I just thought I could bypass that cumbersome, work-heavy stage, and I think that is a mistake.

**Note: Used 5DIII and a less-than-great lens (70-300mm canon f/4-5.6).
#21
General Help Q&A / Switch from 14 bit to 12 or 10?
November 12, 2018, 01:30:42 AM
How do I switch from 14 bit recording to 12 or 10 bit recording? Do I need to download separate module for 12 and 10 bit?

I'm running this nightly build: Nightly.2018Feb04.FD3113

On 5D mark III.

Thanks!
#22
I use this workflow on 5D3, and I'm still confused as to what stage the color grade/correction should be done.

1-Shoot in RAW.

2-Preview clips on computer using MlRawViewer, so I can see which clip contains what.

3-Use RawMagic to convert from .mlv to .dng sequence.

4-Open .dng sequence in Bridge/ACR and apply a little sharpening, levels correction and a crop to 1920x720 (testing with final output of 720p only right now).

5-Open the folder .dngs (with the meta data adjustments) in After Effects and export through Adobe Media Encoder to ProRes 422.

6-Work with the ProRes clips in Premiere.

That's the short version of how I'm processing to test out the RAW process, which I'm new at, of course. And I'm confused about a few things—mainly at what stage to edit the sharpness, contrast, color, etc. of the footage and when to do the color grade.

-Using my process outlined above, I apply sharpening, a little contrast, some levels adjustments to the individual frames in step 4 (in Bridge/ACR). The final ProRes clip looks fine to my standards, but I wouldn't consider it 'color graded,' right? I know that, traditionally, color grading is performed AFTER the video/film is cut together in Premiere or whatever NLE. And using at least a LUT or some color correction preset like Premiere's Lumetri panels. So, is my 'tampering' with the footage like this early in the process (before it even hits Premiere) best practice?

-If using Bridge/ACR like this is appropriate, I assume a final color grade would be performed in the traditional way—near the end of the process, either using plugins available to Premiere or using Resolve or whatever?  And, really importantly—you wouldn't do the same adjustments to the footage you did in the Bridge/ACR step, like adding more sharpness, contrast, level adjustments ... as that's already done, and you don't want to overdo it, right?

-An alternative I learned about is using Vision Color's Osiris to do a full/complete/final color grade right there in step 4. Converting the .dng sequence to a LOG, applying a LUT preset and doing any other sharpness, levels adjustments I need to do right in one single program and at the same time seems ideal. I assume that if I went this route, now color grading at all would be done to the ProRes clips in Premiere. Is this better?

*One final thing I'm confused about is how much damage I'd do to the final image quality by converting to ProRes as early in the process as possible—either by recording straight to ProRes using an Atamos produce in step 1 or by using MlRawViewer to convert to ProRes in Step 2. Going this route, I'd probably have to apply color grade at the end of the process, like is traditionally done. And it seems like I would lose a lot of flexibility in adjusting sharpness, contrast, levels before getting to the color grade stage.

I really appreciate any help.