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Messages - pursehouse

#1
Feature Requests / Re: Light Trails mode
January 30, 2015, 09:58:40 PM
update! haha

ok so, the Sony feature is doing frames at a minimum length of 1 second (max 15 sec ) at a time.
Which, I guess makes the overhead of processing the frames a lot easier on the hardware...

So what'ya say guys? A1ex and G3gg0's Eeko/TwoAdd setup to do this feature? Can it happen? Can I help? I code, I just haven't coded ML before. It looks like the demo code that A1ex setup is almost this feature, unless I'm misunderstanding?
#2
Feature Requests / Re: Light Trails mode
January 29, 2015, 11:00:16 PM
that's interesting... that's in the default Canon setup or is that something ML made happen?

the 15 second exposure thing isn't really the same as a high rate frame. Because then you are dealing with basically averaging all the pixels still ( in 15 second sets, which is a lot of motion ), instead of a max on something like... let's say 1/60s sets. So you'd end up with a faint blur of the moving items, instead of a prominent streak.

It would be even more interesting if you could have 2(or more?) goal frames being compiled during the process... with the a-b,a+b,min,max options listed on the other page... then a person could toy with those different compilations of light over time in post. Could be rather interesting for artsy style photos...

Oh and average(a,b) as an option too... having a combination of those photos to work with in post could open up entire new worlds of options in editing. Assuming it is possible to do 2 outbound images at the same time, which I have no idea if it is possible or not :)
#3
Feature Requests / Re: Light Trails mode
January 29, 2015, 04:30:45 AM
oooohkay... I had a very different understanding of how it worked. Guess I'm reading the wrong stuff. Lots to learn!

So, then the EekoAddRawPath is the way to go right? Each outgoing frame getting compiled into the resulting goal frame?
#4
Feature Requests / Re: Light Trails mode
January 29, 2015, 01:10:04 AM
haha @g3gg0

ok so... when a photo is taken, the shutter is opened ( or already open ).
The CMOS sensor is exposed to light.
The sensor software has it do a progressive scan across each pixel repeatedly, and continually add to the color value of each pixel.
So lets say during a 1s shutter time, it scans 1000 times ( depending on the sensor/resolution ).
Each of those scans add to each of the respective pixels over time to give the final resulting frame.

As far as I can tell, that scan and add code is driving the CMOS sensor. Is that code not accessible via the ML firmware? It seems that the dual pixel AF firmware upgrade from Canon a few years ago could have affected the CMOS' functionality.

Getting a final frame out of the CMOS is of course very speed limited in comparison to how fast the CMOS internally updates a scan of pixels in the future final frame.

I believe the some new CMOS chips are going to scan in groups of 4, but for now I believe everything on Canon is single pixel by pixel.

So I take it you are saying that there is no access to the CMOS scan processing code? That is a real shame :/

Well even if that's the case, it would still be huge to get the in-buffer merging done, it'd just be limited to whatever shots-per-second the sensor can handle outputting at the chosen resolution.
Just off the top of my head, the max()/avg()/min() ability in camera is huge for:
lightning photos ( leave in bulb mode in using max() until after lightning strikes )
waterfalls ( in avg or max mode, as dmilligan showed, but in full resolution raw file instead of low res flattened video )
light painting ( in max mode )
moving object omit/blur ( avg mode )
although I don't really do them, star trails would for sure be easier like this too ( like dmilligan brought up ), yes


as a traveling photographer, currently I have to do things like this with multiple dark ND filters, a large amount of time/testing/failure, and laptops in the wild are rarely an option, as well as storage space being fairly limited in comparison to dumping your 128gb card after every couple of tests, then going back after you compile and seeing things are totally wrong in post.

And photos like the one I shared of the trains, are flat out impossible without in camera processing ( assuming you want a high resolution raw ), due to card write speed and storage limitations for long length exposures.

Thoughts?
#5
Feature Requests / Re: Light Trails mode
January 28, 2015, 10:35:50 PM
ok so, you guys are the experts with this code base/exposed canon functionality.
Is it possible to override the way that the sensor adds to the image inbetween scans?
So that instead of the ( pixelResult += newScanPixel ) with I assume an internal maximum set during the process as opposed to when the buffer is output as a frame, instead it could be set to do ( pixelResult += max (pixelResult,newScanPixel) ) ?
If it's not possible to do that, then that answers my original question. Although I still consider the same ability in final frames to be worth it for many situations. Particularly the fact that the storage required for some projects makes them a nightmare to do out in the wild or while traveling. But, please, original question, can the sensor scan addition logic be altered?

thanks :)
#6
Feature Requests / Re: Light Trails mode
January 28, 2015, 08:07:30 PM
It's weird that you are the only one arguing against this feature. There is a reason Sony has it in all their new cameras. And the feature concept is to add to sensor scans, not photos. And storage speed/size limitations make mimicking this feature in post impossible. I'm fairly certain I explained that multiple times.
#7
Reverse Engineering / Re: EekoAddRawPath
January 28, 2015, 04:27:21 AM
Yes the ( ( oldAvg * count - 1 ) + newValue ) / count )
is the lowest-overhead way I know of to keep track of processing an average over time.
That way you only need the resulting image buffer (which gets altered in-place), and the incoming image buffer.
Assuming it is possible to alter an image buffer directly rather than having to write to a brand new one?

It looks like you guys delved into this quite a bit a few months ago, is it still in action?
#8
Feature Requests / Re: Light Trails mode
January 28, 2015, 04:16:42 AM
@dmilligan

The delay between pics (any delay at all) makes normal merging photos style an unusable option for what I am talking about.
Things like waterfalls which repeat over again are simple to deal with, just like stars are easy because of their slow motion. This is for full motion scenarios. Even video (I assume 60fps) would be far to slow for this.

And although space is an issue, because  a single raw file would be around 40mb, and 6 minutes of HD RAW 1920x1080x24fps video would be 29,880gb ( 74,700 at 60fps ). And that is a very low resolution for quality photos. Then you just spent your day setting up to take one photo per expensive card you have capable of handling that speed. And last I checked, 60fps RAW at 1080p was stretched up from a lower height and barely doable on my 5dmark3 + 1000xCF card.

And longer shutter speed without the maximum() processing goes against the effect of this feature.

But yes, the Eeko multiple features is exactly what I'm looking for, as we were talking about earlier in this thread :)
#9
Feature Requests / Re: Request: h264 GOP control in ML
January 27, 2015, 10:02:46 PM
yeah, GOP control would be nice... it would be nice to control all the settings that are possible to change. That way people can play with the settings as they see fit. How compressed things can get depends on how fast the encoding cpu(gpu?) is in the camera
#10
Is it even possible for a camera to act as a USB host to an external usb-drive? That part is kinda crucial haha
#11
Feature Requests / Re: Light Trails mode
January 27, 2015, 09:56:40 PM
So what does it take to get this feature further into the likelihood of actually getting worked on by the people that know how to do it? :)
#12
I use a 5d Mark3, and even though the RAW/DUALISO feature is amazing and I love that the coders here made it happen, it's not very practical in a normal environment. It's useful if you know exactly what you are shooting and it is all setup beforehand, but you can't use it out in the wild. If external drive storage is fast enough, it would really put things over the top on level like how the Red cameras have hard drives for recording their raw video. So, my two cents.. if it is possible to do that, and the speed is good ( usb2 should be 60mbps ), then it would be a pretty awesome feature. Especially since we have to assume that the new cameras will start having USB3 connections at some point right? Hopefully the 5dIV has usb3.
#13
I don't know what the speed boosts would be, but it would certainly be an advantage for storage size when shooting raw video. Sending video to a 1tb usb2/3 drive would make raw/dualIsoRaw video MUCH easier/realistic to use in real life scenarios without a crazy amount of money spent on cards
#14
Feature Requests / Re: Light Trails mode
January 26, 2015, 08:57:24 AM
@DeafEyeJedi
no filters or anything. That's the beauty of the max(a,b) feature. It only brightens pixels that change between sensor scans, not brightening all pixels over time just because the shutter is still open. So, you could light paint in direct sunlight if you were able to darken your input enough ( probably need an ND for that ) and then had a light source bright enough. Now I have to try that out, light painting in the sun :)
#15
Feature Requests / Re: Light Trails mode
January 26, 2015, 02:03:18 AM
Oh, here is the train trails photo I took. This is an unedited export of the raw.

The shutter was open about 6 minutes, because that's how long of a time span there was between the two left/right trains passing me.

details: 15mm, f/4, ISO 100

http://garandy.com/t/japantrain1

As you can see, the area was pretty bright and extremely contrasted with the boarding platform lights on the right, the dark sky, and the building lights.. etc... And of course, the trains are moving pretty fast in the frame when they are passing near the camera.

I'm going to try a few light painting projects using this Sony feature as well. In semi-lit city areas, where hopefully the person-shadows will be a non-issue because of how the max() processing style
#16
Feature Requests / Re: Light Trails mode
January 26, 2015, 01:52:48 AM
Great, I'm glad you guys are interested in the feature :)

Yeah @chris_overseas , that EekoAddRawPath/TwoAdd using max(a,b) does seem to be exactly what I was talking about. I am assuming the image a/b they reference are single scans of the censor during the shutter being open?

And like @g3gg0 said, even if the frames were shot fast enough (which is impossible as far as I can tell), the space it would take to store them would be astronomical. Doing it in-camera before output to the file system opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

Perhaps if this feature was simply referenced as a "frame scan mode" (or something like that) with the user-available options listed on the page Chris linked ( additive, subtraction, max, min ). And if that existed, it could even open the door for having more complicated things like a time based mathematical curve option added to it to hide end points of motion... stuff like that. Endless possibilities :)

Also, this feature would make photos of lightning MUCH easier. I've used the motion trigger feature for lightning, and while being a great feature, it is still extremely difficult to get the right settings/setup for the changing and limited situation fast enough :)

Thanks everyone!
#17
Feature Requests / Re: [INVALID] Light Trails mode
January 24, 2015, 12:11:26 PM
Sorry I guess I should have clarified... this feature is not related to star photos. It's more for similar things to car-light streaks that were demo'd in the Sony video.

As far as comparing this feature to post-compiling a series of photos...

Imagine you have a light trails (/painting) situation going on. Which is of uncontrollable fast moving items ( for instance cars, people, trains ). Let's assume time span needed to get the photo is 6 minutes ( as was the case in a photo I did with the Sony ).
So these fast moving items are racing across the screen. In the case of the normal series of photos, the camera would take a picture, delay a moment, then another picture and repeat.
So in the repeated photos style if you chose to take slow shutter photos for each shot.
You could take a 10 second photo, then the camera will shutter, buffer the picture, and start the next picture. In that moment you just missed movement of the scene. So there will be a gap of missed movement between each of those shots, even though they are long.
If you took fast shutter photos instead to try and make it so that there are even gaps.
You would have to shoot extremely fast in order to get any sort of steady (although still gaped) movement. let's say.. 30 frames per second, at least. And the last I checked... there are very few cameras able to get anywhere near that, let alone sustain that speed for 6 minutes.

The closest thing you could do to come even slightly close to this, is to film raw video ( extremely limited in resolution and a temperamental feature ), then adjust those frames, then compile.

As far as the noise reduction is concerned... that is already handled implicitly by the maximum(a,b) happening on every sensor scan cycle. So (without confirming) I'd guess most of the noise would already be taken care of, if not more, because the sensor would be getting far more data than any compilation of photos could ever get.

Trust me guys, I thought about it a lot :) The in-camera processing of each scan frame and controlling how it is added to the compiled final image is a huge feature that unlocks an unreal difference in abilities. Specifically this style :)

Sony does have a star trails mode too, but I haven't looked into it or used it yet.

So does anyone know if this feature is even possible with what Magic Lantern is able to access/accomplish?

thanks :)
#18
Feature Requests / Light Trails mode
January 23, 2015, 07:47:04 PM
I'm not sure if this falls under the category of "real time video processing" or not... but hopefully not :)

I used the Sony A7S recently, and it has a "light trails" feature.

Basically what it does, is go into bulb mode and make it so that during each scan of the sensor, only pixels that are brighter than the previous scan are added to the photo, instead of globally adding brightness to each pixel.
So it starts as black (obviously), and the first scan gets the scene with your ISO/AP settings. Then each sequential scan will check for pixels that are brighter than the current compiled pixel set has, and brighten those pixels accordingly.
The photos I did with it are amazing and impossible without this sort of new-age tickery. Canon is always so far behind with the present day features in their prosumer lines. Hopefully you geniuses at ML can make it happen :)

Here is Sony's video that demonstrates the feature

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COAb3II1PSs